Author Topic: Does headlight require bike to be running?  (Read 1484 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ace Blackwell

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • 1977 CB550F - Resurrection in progress
Does headlight require bike to be running?
« on: May 19, 2020, 11:18:20 AM »
All,

I'm trying once again to get the headlight working on my CB550F 77.  I can't seem to get power to the wires in the bucket using a battery charger (not maintainer).   I assume I have a problem further upstream but before I try tracking it down again, I needed to know if the engine must be running first.   Thanks
1977 CB550F Work in Progress

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,294
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2020, 12:34:35 PM »
  It doesn't need to be running, but the key must be in the running position. On later models the start button turns the headlight off when cranking. Often it fails, taking the headlight out. 
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline Ace Blackwell

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • 1977 CB550F - Resurrection in progress
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2020, 05:40:07 PM »
Thanks Don.  I appreciate it.
1977 CB550F Work in Progress

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,294
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2020, 06:31:39 PM »
The Headlight has it's own fuse, the wire to/from the headlight switch is usually red/yellow I think. It comes out of the harness, goes to the start/headlight button and crosses to the high/low beam switch. After the hi/low it is a white one and a blue one.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,396
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2020, 06:35:10 PM »
Don't use a battery charger as a substitute for a battery when trouble-shooting. ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Ace Blackwell

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • 1977 CB550F - Resurrection in progress
Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 02:35:30 PM »
All,
I have a 1977 CB550F. To start, I now have a battery and a new headlight.   I'm still working on the head light issue from before. 
No light yet but here are the test/checks I've made
- Starting bike doesn't give me the headlight
- The bike set for a few days and upon turning key to on position, I get 9 volts with blue & green wires. (or to HL ear ground )
- Hook up light and volt instantly drops to zero.  Doesn't matter whether is the headlight wire or or highbeam dash light wire hooked up. Unhook both lights and volt come back up. but below 9.0 volts.
- With nothing hooked up to blue wire or white, voltage drops over time.  Can watch it drop roughly about 0.01volts a second.
- Turning off bike and back on 10-20 min later and voltage back up to 7.00 volts
- Head light works straight to battery or hooked directly to charger.  both low and high beam
- white low beam wire acts same as blue high beam.
- Head light fuse blew a while back while trying to trouble shoot, so for the moment I have it wrapped in foil to stop a continuous flow of fuses being needed.
- tail light works fine as do turn signals  last time I had them hooked up. all other dash lights work as well

Here are a few issues with bike that could be contributing but doesn't explain why light worked at one time with same issues in place.
- Starter worked when I first bought bike in mid 80s. After a few months it work intermittently then quit working altogether.  (been kicking ever since) Shortly there after the   
  main fuse would blow if riding over 1/2 hour or better.
- back then (cringe) I foiled the main fuse and only rode bike to work (8 mins away)
- over the years (and before internet online ordering,) the main fuse section of fuse box melted to the point, I move the main fuse to the spare slot in the box.
- even with everything disconnected, the main fuse gets hot when the switch is on and whether bike is running or not.  (unhooked meaning wiring, not alt or starter or relays etc)

While it's logical that the electrical abuse the bike has seen over the years would stop the light from working, it doesn't explain why the light is just now not working as opposed to years ago.  (Accumulative?) I realize the electrical system is jacked, but I don't know where to start and don't want to invest in new wiring and boxes just to have the same source of fuse blowing and voltage drops frying new components.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 02:40:45 PM by Ace Blackwell »
1977 CB550F Work in Progress

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,743
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 03:23:33 PM »
First, your battery is most likely trashed. You need either a good fully charged battery or jumper a car battery to the bike battery: be SUPER CAREFUL not to connect the jump battery reversed!
The fuseholder heating isn't too surprising. The fuse contacts once had a plating that's long gone by now, so connection to the fuse will be less than perfect - plus once overheated the contacts lose their springiness. You should replace the fuse holder, I think Hondaman sells a type that mounts and plugs in just like the original but uses the modern minifuses common in cars for a decade or three.
The headlight - not sure what's up: if you turn it on and the battery voltage dies then something is connected to the switch. Is it the headlight, or has the wiring harness developed shorts (not unlikely with foiled fuses as overcurrent can melt wire insulation)?
Foiling fuses is a very bad idea. Try soldering wires to a tail lamp bulb and putting that in place of the fuse. A short will light the bulb full bright, just the instrument lights will give a dim glow, and the headlight will glow dim but the test light will be bright.
The wiring is generally simple: all bike power goes through the MAIN fuse, the HEAD and TAIL fuses are after the MAIN fuse. There's some weirdness for the PARK key position... the tail light will light in PARK with the TAIL fuse removed. With key ON the black wire is powered and all loads draw through a black wire, the black wire connects to the HEAD and TAIL fuses. Some weirdness there as well, if the TAIL fuse has no power and you don't have a headlight on/off switch there may be a jumper missing that replaces that switch for always-on headlight locales.
The headlight power is switched in the start button, so that the electrical load is minimized when electric starting. A black power wire goes to the start button, connecting to the headlight circuit when not pressed but disconnecting that and connecting power to the starter solenoid when pressed.

So in essence: get a good battery and have a plan for testing. Check that power is at the MAIN fuse - both ends. Check that power is on the black wire with key ON (you should have the kill switch as STOP for all this testing to reduce load and avoid overheating one or both coils with engine stopped). Check for power (key ON) at the MAIN and TAIL fuse. Check for power at the headlight plug, there's a green wire (ground) and two power wires to the socket - for hi and lo beams.
If you have power at these places then the headlight should work. No? The starter button is a major cause, it really wasn't designed for the full headlight power and aftermarket higher wattage bulbs are death for them. If it has failed that may explain your lack of electric start too. Replacement switchpods are available but either disabling the headlight cutout by bypassing the starter button switch - or adding a headlight power relay - is advised. You can put a miniature SPST button switch in the housing to replace the original starter button with either the bypass or the relay. The switch itself is really not repairable - the plastic housing turns to crap and internal parts were never available, just the entire pods.

Offline Ace Blackwell

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • 1977 CB550F - Resurrection in progress
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2020, 07:19:04 PM »
Thanks Bodi,  I'll look into the switch issue.  I think first I'll get a new fuse box, then a light (LH) switch.  If that doesn't change it, I'll move to a starter switch (RH). 

Also, the battery is new and I can still kick start the bike with it.   I hope it isn't trashed.

Thanks Again,
1977 CB550F Work in Progress

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,396
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Does headlight require bike to be running?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 07:32:01 PM »
I think first I'll get a new fuse box,
Yes, do that first.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....