Author Topic: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport  (Read 5048 times)

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Offline mireparo

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Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« on: January 30, 2008, 06:02:07 PM »
Hello,
Last year I rebuilt a 1977 CB750F. Stock Keihins rebuilt and cleaned well.
Mac 4-1 and Pods are the only extras.
I've tried at least 20 combos of main jets and needle position.
Initially it was running lean (as expected) and bogged with any or little throttle.
I went up in jet size till it was obviously rich and then backed down a bit.
It runs fairly well however, below 5grand it bogs with anything more than 1/2 throttle.
I tried raising the needles with little change.
Carbs have been synced and resynced to no avail.
Any suggestions?
Thanks, Micah


Offline scondon

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 06:09:36 PM »
 Can you tell us what size main jets you have, needle clip position, and whether your accelerator pump is working correctly?
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 06:36:21 PM »
Can you tell us what size main jets you have, needle clip position, and whether your accelerator pump is working correctly?

Absolutely check that accelerator pump.  That thing is essential for throttle response with those carbs.

Mine wasn't working after the first cleaning cause the diaphragm with the mouse ears had a restricted hole.  There are also two check valves for that, that must operate and seat properly.  Finally, the exit holes in the tubes at the carb entrance are very tiny.

You can test the pump diaphragm off the carbs, by filling the #2 bowl and operating the plunger.  If it is working, you will probably need to clean your glasses.  It pumps pretty strongly.  When assembled onto the carb rack, operating the throttle should show a strong stream coming from each outlet orifice.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline mireparo

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 11:39:12 AM »
Can you tell us what size main jets you have, needle clip position, and whether your accelerator pump is working correctly?
I need to double check my main jet size, I haven't opened the carbs since fall. I believe there 127.5 right now and the needle is all the way up. Would that be referred to as the first position?
When I rebuilt the carbs the accelerator pump seemed in good condition however I did not know how to test it. I will check into its current operation.
Thanks

Offline scondon

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 12:23:45 PM »
 Stock jetting for your bike is 105 mains. Not sure about the needle clip position, but I would guess at either middle or 2nd from the top. With 127 mains and needles raised all the way, it is not surprising to me that it bogs when given more than half throttle, especially at low rpm's. Your settings sound way too rich.

  Even with pods I would not expect to go over 115-120 on the main jet, needle in the middle, and idle mixture screws at 2- 2 1/2 turns out.
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline bikehenge

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 12:35:59 PM »
Micah,
Can you describe the test you did to determine you were running lean initially?
Thanks
Rob

Offline mustangcar

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 01:29:28 PM »
Can you tell us what size main jets you have, needle clip position, and whether your accelerator pump is working correctly?

Absolutely check that accelerator pump.  That thing is essential for throttle response with those carbs.

Mine wasn't working after the first cleaning cause the diaphragm with the mouse ears had a restricted hole.  There are also two check valves for that, that must operate and seat properly.  Finally, the exit holes in the tubes at the carb entrance are very tiny.

You can test the pump diaphragm off the carbs, by filling the #2 bowl and operating the plunger.  If it is working, you will probably need to clean your glasses.  It pumps pretty strongly.  When assembled onto the carb rack, operating the throttle should show a strong stream coming from each outlet orifice.

Cheers,
those  accelerator exit holes are super tiny and are super easily clogged,i opened mine up just a hair with a micro drill bit- it was tricky took it real slow,maybe i screwed up the carb oh well luckily i have a spare carb,,,are your slow jets pressed in like in the 78? going to order new ones from sirius in Canada,i heard when you have a bog you open up the idle air mixtures1/4 turn  at a time ,iam just a new rookie myself,

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 02:18:21 PM »
are your slow jets pressed in like in the 78?
yes

i heard when you have a bog you open up the idle air mixtures1/4 turn  at a time ,iam just a new rookie myself,

No.  Not on the PD carbs with accelerator pumps.

Idle mix adjustments can help throttle response on the older carbs, though.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline CJF

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 01:31:19 PM »
I spent weeks and weeks trying to tune my '78 CB750F carbs.  I finally gave up and bought a set of used Keihin CR 29MM carbs off ebay.  Wow...I am so glad I did...no more jetting problems.  These carbs made a huge difference in the way my bike runs and it makes a significant difference in the power it's making.
Chris

Offline gerhed

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2008, 01:53:40 PM »
I gave up after 10 years screwing with carbs on my
'75 F
Got the 2 Mikuni setup from Cycle-X--I can now spend my time
riding the thing.





Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
          83 XL600R in CB360 Frame
          3-wheel electric tilting cycle

Offline eurban

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2008, 05:24:09 PM »
My experience is that all around performance from the stock pumper carbs is excellent once they are properly functioning and then tuned correctly.    The biggest thing that I have learned with carb tuning is that you are absolutely, completely, utterly wasting your time swapping main jets, adjusting needle clip postion etc, until you actually have your carbs (and the rest of the bikes systems for that matter) functioning properly first.  Clean pilots and idle passages, floats that seal and are adjusted correctly (can be observed in real time with clear tubing on the over flow nubs on these carbs,) adjustment and confirmed proper function of the accelerator pump, air tight intake connections, carb synch set initially on the bench and finished properly on the running bike with guages etc etc etc. . . .  Although it is possible that the performance problems described in the inital post can be attributed to improper main jet size or needle position, I would guess that there is a more fundamental issue with the carbs basic function.  Fix what ails em first and then tuning should be doable.

Offline joeb

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 06:09:17 AM »
Your main jets are way to big I have 120's in my 836 with pods and headers that are way opened up, Macs claim to fame is no jetting required. Sounds like what Sean and the rest are saying you need to get those carbs working right. All it takes is a very small pin hole in the diaphram  for your pump not to work. 

Offline mireparo

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2008, 09:03:57 PM »
Took the Carbs apart this weekend and checked on accelerator pump: Not pumping. cleared all passages and started up the bike. Seemed to have better throttle response but being in MN can't take it for real test yet. When the weathers is a little better I'll test it and start rejetting and messing with the needles again.
Some CR carbs would be great, but I'm not ready to jump for that yet...
Thanks for all the help!!!
Micah

Offline motomotard

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 07:16:58 PM »
ive been trying to tune the carbs on my 78' super sport as well.

i went up to 112.5 mains which probably isnt enough with my pods and supertrapp exhaust.

if i crack the throttle hard it will bog.  so i was gonna lift the needles, but i dont have notches on my 78' needles.  approx how high should i try to lift them with spacers?

from reading this thread it seems like each notch is 1 mm increase or decrease?

bollingball

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Re: Carb tuning on a '77 CB750F Super Sport
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 08:48:09 PM »
moto if it bogs when you crack the throttle hard check the pump.