Author Topic: Fuel injection conversion (edit) fixed a few things  (Read 167964 times)

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Offline bradweingartner

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2008, 05:52:00 PM »
I am still completely in the air on the fuel pump. It seems like all of the external pumps I look at are HUGE monsters, and all the in-tank pumps are of course inconvenient.

I know that my 1994 Arctic Cat 580 EFI snowmobile uses an in-tank walbro pump with barbs on both ends, and is the same size as most automotive in-tank pumps. I'm going to pull it out and see if it has a pressure relief that would prevent it from external use... If it's airtight then I have probably found my pump. I'll let you know what I find.

I need to find myself a graduated cylinder also. I might have a few old graduated beakers that will suffice. Do you happen to know what pulsewidth injectors are normally rated at? 43.5psi is the norm I thought for pressure...

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2008, 07:20:36 AM »
I think I remember reading somewhere 80 % duty cycle, but not positive and 43.5 psi sounds right too. There is a FI honda atv that uses an external pump, but I couldnt locate any for cheap and a new one is around $400.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2008, 01:49:40 PM »
just wondering, do any of the older FI bike have external pumps?, i remember Kawasaki had the gpz 750 turbo, that was FI as well?, cant remember if they had an internal or external pump... just a thought...


M8 this is an awesome thread and an awesome project, thanx heaps for draggin our old girls into the  2000's


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Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2008, 05:30:24 AM »
They had an external pump, but are kinda hard to find and I heard not real reliable. Alot of the GPZ guys convert it to more modern parts. The  2008 Honda TRX680FGA looks like it has an external pump and is $108, might try getting one of these.
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Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2008, 07:20:47 AM »
I pulled an injector out of set of TB's for cbr600rr I have. These have 2 sets of injectors, this one is the main injector and then there is a shower injector above the velocity stacks. I hoping these are a lower flow rate, can't find any data on them though. Denso 5k7 4 on one side and 0600 531 07 on the other. If any one knows anything about these, let me know. As soon as I locate my calipers I will take some measurements.
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Offline Pinhead

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2008, 08:08:43 PM »
I don't know about the specifics, but Denso injectors are supposed to be the best-atomizing injectors out there...
Doug

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Offline eurban

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2008, 05:33:11 AM »
Any updates?  How's it running?

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (video added)
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2008, 06:18:44 AM »
Still having issues with cold start, but hot start and everthing else is pretty much sorted. Still having problems with the fuel pump. I had quick disconnects on the feed and return lines to the tank for easy removal, and the other day i was sitting next to the bike tunning and fuel sparyed out of the the return disconnect and hit me right in the face lol. The check valve in the quick disconnect kept fuel from running out of the tank when it was disconnected and also kept fuel from returnning to tank, big duh on my part. I think I damaged the pump, haven't had achance to remove and inspect it yet. Heres some newer pics.





It ran about 107 mph by gps in my local secret 1/4 mile testing facility, so I think I picked up some power. Need to get on a dyno and fully sort it and see what its putting down. Anybody no anyone with a portable dyno around maryland?
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Offline eurban

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2008, 09:00:23 AM »
Don't know of any portable Dyno outfits nearby but would be interested if you find a good option.  My 836 could probably use some fine tuning.  BTW, I'm in Silver Spring near the DC line and might have check out that creation of yours someday.  Dyno day might be a good incentive to go on a road trip!

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2008, 09:18:07 AM »
Your only about 2.5 hrs away from me. I'm west of hagerstown about 40 miles. If I locate one I'll let you know. I'll be be glad to let you check it out if you get up this way.
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Offline .RJ

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2008, 09:20:37 AM »
May be a bit far from you, but these guys have a dyno: http://www.rnrcycles.com/

Offline XN

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2008, 10:40:25 PM »
Just thought I would post this up. I run one of these (gsl391) walbro external pumps on my VTX and it works awesome!

http://www.inlinefuelpumps.com/
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Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2008, 02:13:33 PM »
Rj, Thanks for looking but there are pretty far...
Xn, I tried a pump similiar to that at first but it didnt package well in the motorcycle. It seems I had a lot more junk in my fuel tank than I thought, the fuel tap was plugged up and barely feeding gas to the pump. So with that fixed my fuel tables are completely off...in the process of sorting that out now.
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Offline dustyc

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2008, 03:00:00 PM »
Love the side cover graphic!

And the whole thing actually.  Great work. 
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Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2008, 04:20:40 PM »
Thanks, the paint looks good in pictures, but I got tiny air bubbles under the decals after spraying the clear and some other minor issues, will probably re-do it sometime but for now its ok.
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Offline bigsherm

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #90 on: November 20, 2008, 11:08:13 AM »
Hey 750ss-

What are your rearsets from?

Sweet bike, dude!

-Sherm

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated some things)
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2008, 04:07:12 PM »
I'm not sure, I pulled them from a box of parts and cycle salvage place. I think they are from a yamaha of some sort. I am planning to change to cbr1000rr sets including passenger pegs this winter if I get to it.
(edit) the rearsets are from a fzr600 around a 92 vintage
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 06:59:49 AM by 750essess »
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avirnig

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2008, 06:06:15 PM »
I am immensely interested to see how this goes, as I will be purchasing a '77 CB750A that I want to convert to EFI with a few tweaks to improve performance (such as a cam swap, and possibly some chain gear teeth number changes as well).

I understand that this bike is a dog performance-wise by default, but I also plan on doing a complete resto on the rest of the bike, with only these couple of tweaks here and there, like the EFI conversion, and gear and cam swaps to improve the performance a little.

I am new to these forums, and will be posting pics of the bike in a couple months. Right now, the previous owner has it in the local shop where I drop parts off at from time to time (I work for a local napa auto parts store as a delivery driver/counterman), and the previous owner only wants $750 bucks for the bike. The only things that I can see wrong with the bike as it sits now, is it needs a tune-up badly (partly why it is in the shop now anyway), a new battery (previous owner has a battery cobbled into the original battery box, one that is too small for the box), and a few other odds and ends. The chrome pieces are a little pitted, but those can be re-chromed later, or even painted to match the tank color, and the tank itself seems EXTREMELY solid, no major rust spots and/or holes that need to be filled, not to mention that the seat itself has no rust on the underside to speak of, and the seat cover itself has no cracks at all! the frame is also still in its original powdercoat, with no obvious rust spots as well, except maybe for behind the front fork, near the base of the engine where rocks may have bounced up into it.

for 750 bucks, I can't really complain much about the bike, as come this spring, it will be fully working, and tuned with the original carbs in place.

This bike is in PRIME condition for my plans of semi-restoration, and, since honda made EXTREMELY few "hondamatic" bikes, it is sort of rare itself anyway. I do not plan on getting rid of this bike anytime soon, due to the rarity of these "automatic" bikes.

I understand that they were never really more than "commuter" bikes, but, with an EFI conversion, and a few drivetrain tweaks here and there, I may be able to salvage a little of the performance of the CB750 engine series.

Please, do post more on your progress of your build. This spring or summer, I plan on sourcing a complete CB750 engine/trans set from a salvage yard, and doing a complete rebuild on both the engine and tranny for when I do the restoration of the rest of the bike.  I will be doing the EFI conversion on the rebuild motor, not the one originally in the bike now, so I have some time to see how well yours holds up (i.e. the rubber manifolds).

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2008, 04:35:38 PM »
The mallory fuel pump died, I had nothing but problems with this pump. I am currently switching back to the inline pump I started with, it doesn't fit under the battery box as well. I have been able to get the cold and hot start pretty much sorted now though. Its been too cold to ride it, so the rest of the map is still rough. My tune was constantly going off because of the flakey mallory pump. I had more rust in the tank than I thought ( enough to clog the filter after a short ride), probably contributed to the fuel pump problems. I have dis-assembled this pump and everything checks out but it just doesnt give consistent pressure. Flushed the tank several times, should be ok now. The intake rubbers are holding up great. You should find a spare tank to modify, so u can keep the original in tank. I ended up welding on a harley style fuel valve bung and using a pingel valve that they just came out with, that has feed and return (no shut-off though). Good luck with your project  ;D
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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2008, 08:24:03 PM »
Glad to hear that the intakes are holding up. Sad to hear that the pump seems to be a dud. Good to know that the hot and cold starting issues seem to have been fixed as well.

Please, once you get the maps and fuel pump issues sorted, post a complete work up of parts needed, including how you made the intakes, preferably with some pictures.

I would rather not have to modify my existing tank if possible, as these 750A tanks are hard to come by it seems, and the one I have now is in near-perfect condition as it is.

Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2008, 12:46:25 PM »
The only way I can think of, to not modify the tank is to find a petcock that will fit your tank with 2 outlets and has 2 separate pipes up into the tank one short and one long. You dont want the feed and return to close or you have turbulance problems.
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Re: Fuel injection conversion edit (updated latest pics)
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2008, 05:56:47 PM »
The only way I can think of, to not modify the tank is to find a petcock that will fit your tank with 2 outlets and has 2 separate pipes up into the tank one short and one long. You dont want the feed and return to close or you have turbulance problems.

i work for napa autoparts, so im sure i can find something in the weatherhead fittings book to make one that will work if i cannot find one so that i do not have to cut into the tank.

Offline Brookesy

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Re: Fuel injection conversion
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2009, 04:13:40 PM »
Fellas,
Any progress on the EFI front?

I know nothing about EFI but this thread is brilliant
I do know that after riding my CB1300 for a few years my 750 project needs EFI if it's possible

Just a thought...
Would it be possible to collaborate on the EFI thing

Surely someone who's interested in the project has access to CNC gear and could make the moulds required for the manifold rubbers?

If it's worthwhile i could try to get hold of some CBR600 throttle bodies and draw them up in CAD then draw the manifold rubbers / head etc.

It would be worth it to see this progress further
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Offline 750essess

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Re: Fuel injection conversion
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2009, 02:17:05 PM »
I traded a few emails with JLeather, he is planing on making metal adapters. Maybe wait and see how they work, could be a better solution than my rubber pieces. The cad drawings would be awesome, You would need to find out what the standard dimension are for injection mold machine molds. I have switched to a cbr1000 in tank pump that I modified to be external, it is working great so far. I have a had a few descent tunes already, but as I learn more I end up starting from scratch. I'm currently working on a pure an tune and have cold and hot start working really well and can idle down to 1000 rpm. Worked on the ve table some this weekend and it running well enough to ride. need to do a few more logs it go kinda flat on top and surges a bit cruising.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: Fuel injection conversion
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2009, 10:17:25 PM »
M8 you are a god amongst men.....pure class

peace brother
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/