Topic: old tyres can be resurrected

[malcolmgb]

has anyone tried this;

http://www.griptyresoftener.com/

the Dunlops were unused when I bought my part rebuilt 400 but the rubber feels real hard, are there any date codes on the tyre to give me an idea of age.

[Terry in Australia]

Now that's interesting, I've got a couple of bikes with near new tyres that have sat for a couple of years, and I'd hate to get tipped off because they've gone hard. I wonder if they'll ship to Oz? Cheers, Terry.

[malcolmgb]

you have a stockist in Australia Terry

[rugger81]

I think I might be willing to try that on a car, but no way would I on a motorcycle.  Just my two cents.

[troppo]

now that looks interesting...
on their site they say that is is used by bike racers too, so to believe them it should be great on a bike
cheers
troppo

[Gordon]

on their site they say that is is used by bike racers too, so to believe them it should be great on a bike

It's never a very good idea to believe the claims that a manufacturer makes about their own product, especially when it comes to easy fix solutions like this. 

[coyotecowboy]

Looks like Track-Bite to me (track compound)

[6adan]

How about old hard intake rubber. 

[Terry in Australia]

How about old hard intake rubber. 

Now that's a good point, you could soak them in the stuff!

[Bob550four]

How about old hard intake rubber. 

I'd feel safer trying it on that first.  my tires, I'm going to replace when they're hardening, screw trying to soften them back up.

IMO, if a tire hardens, the chemical compound of the rubber changes,  by using any chemical, you're changing that compound again, and potentially weakening, or reducing the grip of the rubber.   I'm not willing to take that risk on my tires(which I like sticking to the road thank you very much)

[chrislib]

That type of stuff is used by circle track racers. I imagine it would work as well for a bike tire BUT, how deep does it penetrate the rubbur? Race tires are expendable and are a run once/toss deal. It would kinda suck to find out the "hard" way that you have ridden past the point of saturation, could be disasterous IMO.

[Gregorymoto]

NO NO NO NO NO NO
I would not use this on an old tire that it is getting hard, in fact i would call you insane. I would not use them on intake rubber at all.

It looks like a race only application for use on tires that are only going to be used 2 or 3 times on the track.
This is not good for daily use, NOT GOOD.
If you want soft tires buy some Avons and ride them every day.

What ever this stuff is it would need to react with the rubber compound in such a way that that it would be changing the molecule structure in to a tangled mess from its intended form of a long chain structure like most polymers.
This will just cause the rubber to soften and brake away from the non effected rubber. Now if this rubber is old and hard it will fall away, you dig.
This is not safe on the street, Bleach will do the same thing to rubber if you soak it, gas will do it as well. It might fell like it is restored but it is not. There is no real way to restore or increase the elastic potential in rubber without destroying its molecular composition.
Good luck. G. Mountain

[BobbyR]

As my Physician was Chistopher Reeves Father in law, I think the couple of hundred bucks for new tires is a worthwhile investment. Whatever this stuff is, it has to be a solvent to penetrate the rubber and break it down to make it sticky. Does that action work all the way to the chords after repeated applications? If you do the carb rubbers and they fail, you may have to limp it home or get towed. If a tire lets go you will be lucky if all you do is limp.

[ralt12]

Get a new set of tires, man. It's your life you're talking about. Why would you take that chance? Pitch the old "new" tires in the trash, they're only good for mockups.

[BobbyR]

Get a new set of tires, man. It's your life you're talking about. Why would you take that chance? Pitch the old "new" tires in the trash, they're only good for mockups.

Nah, get some strong rope throw it over a stout tree limb tie the tire to it. The kids love it. 

[Tower]

Lots of sophomoric comment here, but where are the facts? 

Does the chemical structure of rubber change with age?  Not really.  Much like the chemistry of cheese does not change by either removing or adding water.  The chemistry of rubber changes with the addition of UV energy, or exposure to certain chemicals.

Is the tyre still "curing" or has it cured and the evaporation is a simple mechanical one? The tyre's chemistry is 99.99% stable after it has cured. Wrap a tyre in plastic and keep it away from UV energy and the tyre will stay supple a very very long time.  So, what is evaporating as a tyre ages?  Its a very rather complex mixture of acids, ketones, and VOCs.  Much like beans can be reconstituted with the addition of water, tyres should be reconstituted with the addition of this evaporate.

Are the chemicals in the advertised product changing the chemistry of the tyre?  Bleach, for example alters the chemistry of rubber; it breaks down the nitrogenous and other protein-like compounds in natural rubber, unraveling the polymer chains and reducing its ability to stretch without fragmenting.  Gasoline works by dissolving the polymers in solution and hence weakens the bonds that way.  How does this chemical work?  Is it a solvent, a rebinding agent, a polymerization enzyme...?

Answer these questions, and the mystery will be solved without more sophistry.

Edit:  Keep in mind that if a tyre has aged and then through mechanical manipulation the rubber has cracked or pitted, then reconstituting the rubber will still not re-bond the cracks or fill in the pits.

[ralt12]

It may be "sophmoric", but we've tried tire enhancement on older Goodyears with this car at Willow Springs, and while it worked for a lap or two, after that it was a scary f*()%*ing ride: there's no way you want to enter the next zip code when you're going *really* fast...


That's why it wears the Avons nbow; only tire you can currently get for this type of car.

[Gregorymoto]

Hay Tower


B FEN S  or BS
MMMM is that sophomoric

Molecular bonds and chimcal bonds read up on it.

[Tower]

    By definition, @Gregorymoto   
But you'll have to spell it out.

e.g. salt doesn't change chemically when dissolved in water, but it does take on different physical properties.  Polymers of rubber are the same, just not with water. edit: well, maybe a little bit with water.

[Tower]

@ralt12, do tell about your experience.  What happened to the tyres at application and over time, to make the ride scary?  That might give us some insight into what that track compound does.

[mcpuffett]

malcolm, tyres do have manufacturing dates on them but i cant remember how to read them google it  , cheers mick.

[Tower]

Tyre manufacture date is part of the D.O.T. code: Its the last group of (three or four) digits followed by a decade symbol (or not). 

- e.g. Code ended in "371", would mean a date of 37th week of 1981.
- Had there been a triangular symbol following the 371 it would have indicated 37th week of 1991. 
- If the tyres were made this decade, there would be a final group of four digits. e.g. "3701" putting the manufacture date at 37th week of 2001.

[malcolmgb]

Thanks Tower for that info.

I became aware of this product in an article in Feb 'Classic Bike' by a UK racer who rode an old race bike on the Isle of Man, non race day, using an old triangular race tyre. He appeared quite impressed with it. It does say in the faq that it is more suited to race rubber because of the higher natural rubber content.

Just to put the record straight, my tyres are not cracked at all, the rubber just feels hard especially where the mould release agent still hasn't been worn away, I have now completed just over 500 miles on them, I ride it as a classic bike, no knees scraping the tarmac, always well within my and the bikes limits.

[Tower]

@malcolmgb, you ride your bike in a fashion similar to how I ride mine.  The example I gave you, i.e. "3701" is from my own CB's Michelin tyres.  I  only ride about 1000 miles a season but it is on those 27 year old tyres that have no cracks or other signs of wear. At that rate my Michelin's could last another ten years.  I can feel the tyres are not very "grippy", but certainly not problematic for touring Halton and Milton Region roads at or slightly above the posted speed limit  .

A product such as the one you came across might have a place with our type of ridership.  If the chemical works on rubber, like lanolin works on leather, then the only ill effect might be slightly faster tyre wear in trade for better grip on the road. 

Considering, the product advert suggested the need for repeat application, implying the softening does not last very long, applicability may be limited:  Hence, primarily for scheduled events, such as races?  A tyre may need to be doused, allowed to sit a few days, then used before the chemical evaporated again. (I wonder what would happen to tyre integrity if the tyres were "cellophane" wrapped for an extended period of time after dousing: better or worse?)

[Gordon]

I  only ride about 1000 miles a season but it is on those 27 year old tyres that have no cracks or other signs of wear. At that rate my Michelin's could last another ten years.  I can feel the tyres are not very "grippy", but certainly not problematic for touring Halton and Milton Region roads at or slightly above the posted speed limit  .

You don't need all that much grip for the majority of everyday, moderate riding, but you need it for those unexpected or emergency situations, which is when old, hard tires will fail you, when you need the grip the most. 

[Tower]

Point well taken, @Gordon.  Hence, the trade off I mentioned is one that I would take, if not for the price tag.  Now if I could just have my cake and eat it too...I'd hate to give away $300-$400 only to find a $25 solution.

[ralt12]

@ralt12, do tell about your experience.  What happened to the tyres at application and over time, to make the ride scary?  That might give us some insight into what that track compound does.

Let's just say big speed, big downforce but changing (like, a LOT lower) grip = lurid, high speed slides that you only have one or two of before you back out of it and change tires. I wish I had a video of it. All the times you see an F1 race and there's a little twitch in the car, it's like a heart attack if you haven't planned ahead for it. Those guys are all really good.

Replace your tires, pal. Of all the places to be cheap, tires are the last place. It's cheap insurance.

[Tower]

yes, @ralt12, but what aspect of the tyre changed?  Did they stiffen up again after 2 laps?  Did they frey, wear out, melt down, get squirmy?

[edbikerii]

Yeah, some real analysis or evidence would be helpful here.  Frankly, I don't see any harm in trying out a product if you are trying to get some more life out of tires that are already otherwise shot, especially if they have plenty of tread left.

[Terry in Australia]

Yeah, I'd still be keen to try it out, I've got 4 bikes that are currently registered @ 400 bucks a year, so I'm about to take three off the road leaving the BMW as my "regular rider" as opposed to a "Daily rider" because I have a company provided car so I don't ride as regularly as I used to, and I'm about to join a classic bike club (thanks to Steve K0) whereby I can get "club plates" to ride my K0, K1 and Suzuki GS1000S about as often as I ride them now, for only 100 bucks a year each.

My point is that I might be lucky to do 1000 miles per year on each of my older bikes, so I'm not all that keen about an average annual tyre bill of $1000.00+ for bikes that are really just toys nowadays. It's bad enough keeping all the batteries charged up!

I'm not that cheap that I'd ride around on cracked tyres, but the Bridgestone BT45's on the Suzuki have been on it for 9 years now, so a little softening might be in order? Cheers, Terry.