Author Topic: Pete Seeger, a Patriot  (Read 2152 times)

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Rocking-M

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Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« on: March 16, 2008, 08:32:00 AM »
I just watch some of the documentary on Pete Seeger.
He represents true patriotism to me with his statement, think globally, act locally.

That is where the Patriotism rubber meets the road.
Now I'm not much of an activist, I struggle to much to make ends meet it seems,
but, I ought to be more of an activist on the local scene. At least that is what
I was made to think watching this documentary.

I know some of the fellows on here just a wee bit older than I went to Vietnam.
I know Pete went to N. Vietnam and this may not sit to good with those of you who went.
But the segment on the Vietnam veteran who went to Pete's concert with the intent
to kill him, but after listening to the concert he sang the last song with him.
This is a true inspiration because evidently this fellow realized Pete had the greatest of motives.
That in bringing the troops home from a wrongly pursued conflict.

You fellows up on the Hudson should really be happy with what he was able to get started
on the Hudson river clean up.

http://www.peteseeger.net/

this has a link to the "Power of Song" DVD.


Offline mark

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 08:36:49 AM »
That was a good show. I'm happy to have PBS as one of my 5 available channels.
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Offline heffay

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 09:22:41 AM »
had to look him up a bit more since i'm more of a youngin' in most of your eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_seeger
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2008, 09:38:57 AM »
I had the pleasure of meeting him in 1969. My College was on the Hudson River so we were part of the Clearwater project. He was doing a sort of benefit and thank you concert. My school also reached out to returning Veterans. There were quite a few, and also the ROTC students(I got Gov't money and figured the thing would be over by time I got out). He was a gentle man, very soft spoken. You could tell that in his mind he could not fathom killing and maiming other people when the reason for doing so was unclear. He said WWII was different than Vietnam, and that evil should be fought vigorously. He spoke to the Veterans and explained that they were not "baby killers", they were people who when called went to serve, which was the duty of every American. They were at the same time victims of their leaders who appealed to this sense of duty for less than pure reasons. He also said, protesters like himself were fulfilling the other duty that Americans have which is to speak up against the Government when it is wrong. Many of the Veterans had been in combat and spoke about what they had done and what they had witnessed, some cried. He comforted them. He had a honest and gentle spirit. Those words of his helped me though the dark times a couple of years later. 39 years later we are right back n the same spot.

It was back in nineteen forty-two,
I was a member of a good platoon.
We were on maneuvers in-a Loozianna,
One night by the light of the moon.
The captain told us to ford a river,
That's how it all begun.
We were -- knee deep in the Big Muddy,
But the big fool said to push on.

The Sergeant said, "Sir, are you sure,
This is the best way back to the base?"
"Sergeant, go on! I forded this river
'Bout a mile above this place.
It'll be a little soggy but just keep slogging.
We'll soon be on dry ground."
We were -- waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool said to push on.

The Sergeant said, "Sir, with all this equipment
No man will be able to swim."
"Sergeant, don't be a Nervous Nellie,"
The Captain said to him.
"All we need is a little determination;
Men, follow me, I'll lead on."
We were -- neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool said to push on.

All at once, the moon clouded over,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A few seconds later, the captain's helmet
Was all that floated by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the Big Muddy
With the captain dead and gone.

We stripped and dived and found his body
Stuck in the old quicksand.
I guess he didn't know that the water was deeper
Than the place he'd once before been.
Another stream had joined the Big Muddy
'Bout a half mile from where we'd gone.
We were lucky to escape from the Big Muddy
When the big fool said to push on.

Well, I'm not going to point any moral;
I'll leave that for yourself
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the papers
That old feeling comes on;
We're -- waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.

Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in the Big Muddy!
And the big fool says to push on!

Words and music by Pete Seeger (1967
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 74cb750

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 11:04:38 AM »
hmmmm.......I lost a few friends in Vietnam, and it is difficult to deal w your "patriots".
Laugh at least once a day.
Life  $ucks, then you die.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
God forces us to live with  non-believers to test our resolve.

Offline heffay

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2008, 11:17:34 AM »
did you read bobby's post at all?
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Rocking-M

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 03:25:35 PM »
That's about the size of it today to Bobby, waste deep and the big fool saying to push on.
Glad you posted the lyrics cause when I heard the song that's what I thought, it sure applies to today.

Offline edbikerii

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 07:36:09 AM »
I don't let singers influence my vote, especially popular ones.
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Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 07:51:26 AM »
I think Pete Seegers credibility is a bit suspect.

While a nice documentary it tended to gloss over some mistakes in his life.

He's been criticised due to his affliation with the communist party.

I'm sure someone will come back with "but hes a communist with a little c" and point out that he drifted away from it in later years.....

Look back to World War II

When Hitler and Stalin signed the non aggression pact..he was an extreme proponent of the USA not getting involved.

Changed rather rapidly when operation barbarossa kicked off.

I don't think you can rail against one thing while at the same time ignore far greater issues.

They had a place in russian for people like Pete Seeger...it was called a Gulag..wonder how pete missed that connection.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more balance in the program.




Before anyone thinks this is an anti Seeger rant.....Everyone has flaws.

And the point of a documentary is to document.
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Rocking-M

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 02:15:02 PM »
KG, It's all covered on the site I posted. I think it gives a well balance presentation there of the issues you raised.
I don't think anyone here would ever put anyone else, Pete Seeger included on to high a pedestal cause we
all know we're just men, right?  ;) Point is, Pete's done a hell of a lot of good with many of his "activisms" .
And my other point was, a true patriot does the most he can in his own back yard, ie... Hudson River.

Offline heffay

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 02:21:17 PM »
a true patriot does the most he can in his own back yard, ie... Hudson River.

tell that to the president... gawddammit! 
oh, that's right... the president doesn't have to be a patriot... barfola
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Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 03:26:35 PM »
a true patriot does the most he can in his own back yard, ie... Hudson River.

tell that to the president... gawddammit! 
oh, that's right... the president doesn't have to be a patriot... barfola

Exactly how far ya wanna stretch that back?

Or is that just Bush bashing?
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Rocking-M

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 03:53:33 PM »

Exactly how far ya wanna stretch that back?

Or is that just Bush bashing?

It goes way back for sure. Maybe all the way back to Jefferson.  ;)
Jefferson was the last President who followed this the back yard counts practice I should add.

Offline heffay

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2008, 05:10:03 PM »
a true patriot does the most he can in his own back yard, ie... Hudson River.

tell that to the president... gawddammit! 
oh, that's right... the president doesn't have to be a patriot... barfola

Exactly how far ya wanna stretch that back?

Or is that just Bush bashing?

seriously bush bashing!
but lets go back as far as any of the oldtimers care too  ;)
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2008, 05:58:04 PM »
I think Pete Seegers credibility is a bit suspect.

While a nice documentary it tended to gloss over some mistakes in his life.

He's been criticised due to his affliation with the communist party.

I'm sure someone will come back with "but hes a communist with a little c" and point out that he drifted away from it in later years.....

Look back to World War II

When Hitler and Stalin signed the non aggression pact..he was an extreme proponent of the USA not getting involved.

Changed rather rapidly when operation barbarossa kicked off.

I don't think you can rail against one thing while at the same time ignore far greater issues.

They had a place in russian for people like Pete Seeger...it was called a Gulag..wonder how pete missed that connection.

I would have liked to have seen a bit more balance in the program.




Before anyone thinks this is an anti Seeger rant.....Everyone has flaws.

And the point of a documentary is to document.
Seeger was a old school "Red" as they were called. They were people who lived through the Depression and witnessed the human misery it spawned. Read the Grapes of Wrath again, and really read it. The Unions were spawned by the Socialist movement in the US. You may not like Unions, but due to that movement we have the 40 hour 5 day workweek, unemployment insurance, and workman's compensation etc. This had little to do with what took place in the Soviet Union or Cuba, who were not true Socialists, they are dictatorships. I guess Russia is headed back that way.

After WWI the US became isolationist. Franklin Roosevelt made campaign speeches promising the Mothers of America he would not send their Sons to fight a foreign war. He embargoed Japan's oil supply which caused the Military to take control and the rest is history.

Seeger is of course not a Saint, and what I hate about Liberals is they just get behind things and give it little thought and tend it be elitist. The two hours I spent with Seeger I saw not bit of that, I saw ernestness and true concern for people and the Country.

He has become an Icon, and Icons tend to get a softer brush in Documentaries. I know the Brother of a longtime Roadie of Springsteens, and the Boss has a very pricky side to him that you will never see in print. I like his music and his messages. Springsteen personally provided the startup funding for the Vietnam Veterans of America. He also funds food banks. So we can forgive some prickyness I guess.

To measure a persons life, you must measure the sum total of their whole life not just isolated incidents. We have all done things we may regret, or something that was seemingly out of character. It is what we have done before and after that should be measured. I am anti war, but I am a Conservative Republican and have been both my whole life.       



He was and is a Pacifist which would automatically get behind a Treaty to aviod a conflict. 
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2008, 06:27:08 PM »

He was and is a Pacifist which would automatically get behind a Treaty to aviod a conflict. 

I'm not.


Plus Icons are those little pictures they hang in churchs.  ;D
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2008, 06:46:12 PM »
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2008, 06:59:01 PM »
And what is your collective body count? Any Purple Hearts between you two? 
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2008, 07:05:36 PM »
And what is your collective body count? Any Purple Hearts between you two? 

I'm pretty sure Pete Seeger doesn't have one.

If body counts and purple hearts turned you into a pacifist...thats your decision.

If you like Pete...thats your decision too.

Sorry not thrilled with the guy.

Guess we'll have to disagree
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2008, 07:25:11 PM »
Since you have a Commercial Air Transport license and perhaps other ratings I am sure an Air Guard unit could use your skills, you would get a Commission to boot.

I just personally do not believe in War anymore. I do believe in defense and surgical offense. I would gladly smoke Osama and his merry men with a smile. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 07:33:05 PM by BobbyR »
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2008, 08:23:39 PM »
Your of course free to get as worked up as you like.

Ya posted it in the open forum.

I hope you didn't expect everyone to agree with your opinion.

In fact I believe the original thought behind this post is...if you don't agree...say something. ALA Pete Seeger.

Now calm down...its Saint Patties...have a drink.

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2008, 05:26:39 AM »
You are correct, Here's to ya:

Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline kghost

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2008, 09:15:21 AM »
Man...Thats awesome!

Cheers brother.
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Rocking-M

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2008, 03:15:52 PM »
You are correct, Here's to ya:



where is mine?

What has been nice about this discussion is that I got to hear from someone who actually has heard Pete up close.
Sure the documentary will make him look good but someone that's actually heard him is a good judge of his character.
Thanks Bobby!!!

eldar

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Re: Pete Seeger, a Patriot
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2008, 07:50:11 AM »
I look at it this way. If we judged everyone by 1 or 2 things they did in their life, then NO ONE would COULD be a patriot. I know it is hard to overlook those random things but to truly decide if a person is a patriot, you should judge the sum of their life.