Topic: CL350 top end question

[Green550F]

So I'm having troubles with it suddenly. Pulled the cam cover off an I find that the cam chain sprocket has only on bolt in it. There are two places for bolts.

I'm thinking that the "missing" bolt is what's causing the array of issues which range from the timing has jumped so it hits the left intake valve to something catching on the cam chain.

Of course I haven't pulled the engine yet. I'm ASSUMING the missing bolt is lodged in the cam chain someplace. That is if there were 2 bolts in the first place!

Can anyone verify that there are suposed to be 2 bolts in the first place?

[mystic_1]

Verified.  Sorry.

mystic_1

[subkulture]

yes, there are supposed to be two (2) bolts holding that sprocket onto the cam. u will probably need to remove the top end at least to inspect/ repair things (valves, guides, seats, cam roller, chain, etc). check ur oil for bits of metal that would indicate a loose bolt causing damage. of course find and retrieve that f'n bolt. fortunately that motor is not that complicated if u are careful and have a manual. i don't think u have to pull the motor to get the top end off. while ur at it might as well hone the cylinders, put new rings, and cam chain in addition to anything that may be damaged. good luck

[Raul CB750K1]

Those bolts are high tensile, you can't just use any bolt. Furthermore, one of them have a "pan", a part of the lenght near the head not threaded.

Once you reinstall them, clean them thoroughfully and use hard threadlock compound on them.


Good luck on your hunt!!

[bryanj]

Sorry subkulture is inncorrect you do have to remove the motor to do anything on the 350---360 you can strip top end in situ

[Raul CB750K1]

In the 350 you can at least remove the cam cover. If you are lucky and the bolt is hanging around then no more work needed - as long as you will be reusing the head gasket-

[GNXFan]

I have some misc. CL350 engine parts leftover form a 72 CL350 project if you need anything.

[tbpmusic]

You need to pull the engine to do almost anything on a 350.

Yes, there are two bolts - FIND IT.
It is unlikely it's caught in the cam chain- more likely down under the oil "separator" in the bottom crankcase. But it may just be hanging out in the head somewhere, you never know.

Try to recover the bolt - they are special bolts, no longer in stock, and VERY difficult to find. I know a number of 350 guys who have been looking for those bolts forever.

bill

[mlinder]

The nice thing is. is htat the engines on the 350 can be pulled quickly and easily. Easy to pull out of the frame, and relatively light, as well.

[Green550F]

Define LIGHT... I had the F'ing thing out already to paint the frame... Really ticked me off that I scratched the paint puting it back in. And now, before I even got it re-titled I've got to pull it again. This must be how Charlie Brown feels every time he tries to kick the football...

As the chain seems to be catching on something I can't see, lets all pray it's the bolt and it hasn't doen too much damage.  I'll take lots of pics for you guys as I dismantle the little beast. Then I won't have to ask for pics when I go to put it together!

And it was looking SO GOOD!

[subkulture]

one thing that might help u not scratch the frame is to remove the exhaust header bolts from the head, that will give u a little more wiggle room.  i have a few parts for the sl350 engine if u need also.

[Raul CB750K1]

I did two things to avoid scratching my paint:

1. Cover the frame with cloth.
2. Ask somebody for help putting the engine back in.


Point number 1 took me about 20 minutes. Point number 2 took us five minutes.

[lordmoonpie]

Lighter than the 100 weight of a CB450 engine and MUCH lighter than a CB750 - hey you can almost juggle with 350 motors 

I succssfully replaced my cam sprocket bolts with high tensile standard bolts and had no issues in 4 yers of racing. Special and obsolete they might be but they're not irreplaceable...

[Green550F]

Good News: Found the bolt!
Bad News: Found the top half... I'm betting the other half is in the crank case.
More bad news: My laptop suffered a hard disk failure! (lost SO MUCH stuff I could cry...)

Things are a bit backwards now. My engine is currently toppless instead of my wife.
If I can find a way of locating the bolt without ripping apart the bottom end, I'd be so happy!

So anyways, The next few decisions to make are:
1) what do I need to use for bolts as these are scrap?
2) any tips for retrieval of the other half of the bolt?

[fuzzybutt]

flip the motor upside down and shake it?

[Green550F]

Basically did that. Tipped it forward and dug around with a magnetic pickup tool. From both top(piston openings) and from the bottom(drain plug). NOTHING FOUND.

It seems to turn over smooth. I can hear the oil pump sucking as the crank rotates. No unusual feel or sounds. I'm really thinking I should leave well enough alone...

[Wingmonk]

May be stupid, but did you look in the camshaft for the other half?

[Green550F]

Even before I found the first! No such luck.

[Raul CB750K1]

Could it be that you can't see the forest for the trees? If you have found the head of a sheared bolt, should the rest of the bolt remain threaded in its place?

[mystic_1]

So, you have a mysteriously broken bolt and can only locate half.  Even if you found the other half, I'd seriously just go ahead and tear that motor open. 

You're most of the way there already and there's definitely some bad mojo going on in there.  Bite the bullet, crack it apart, and if nothing else you can clean it and reassemble with fresh gaskets, and you'll KNOW what's going on inside.

mystic_1

[subkulture]

u cannot leave that bolt in there, it will only cause u problems when least convenient (probably on the side of a deserted road),   and cost more money and time in the long run. 

[Green550F]

So I went ahead and bought a gasket set and dove in. Holy Sheite, I've never seen so much metal flake in an engine before! I know where it came from and am not too worried yet.

The good news is I found the little SOB. Now to clean, inspect and re-assemble...

[mystic_1]

So I went ahead and bought a gasket set and dove in. Holy Sheite, I've never seen so much metal flake in an engine before! I know where it came from and am not too worried yet.

The good news is I found the little SOB. Now to clean, inspect and re-assemble...

So, where did the metal flake come from?

Where did the bolt stub end up being?  Good job finding it!

Remember, clean, clean, clean.  You can not be to anal about cleanliness when assembling.

cheers
mystic_1

[bryanj]

These bolts:-

90081-312-000 is listed as "knock bolt" and is the same bolt as that securing the tensioner "horseshoe" to the crankcases on a 350/400 four---Also NOT listed as discontinued but maybe NONTHELESS there are enough 350/400 fours out there to rob.

90085-312-000 Is listed as discontinued BUT is a simple 6 x 14 High tensile bolt available anywhere.

Now no offence but this took me 5 minutes to find out at

http://www.motogrid.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/7/default.aspx

A link I have posted MANY times in relation to parts searching

[Green550F]

The flakes are probably from the damage the bolt did while bouncing around in the cam box. A good chunk of aluminum web was pounded out when the bolt went from beside the cam shaft to the exahust spring area. There was no visible damage to the cam although that bust have been what pounded the bolt through.

As for parts availability, I have no doubts that the bolts will be found eventually. I've seen many cases where one honda dealer claims a part is discontinued while another is able to find it. this has happened to me on flywheels, carburators, seals, etc... I think it may be as much laziness on the dealers' side as anything. I'm sure they'd rather sell new bikes than have to actually think.