Topic: Need some HELP!! and positive thoughts...

[bookjockey]

Hey everyone!

Background info: I just bought a '77 CB550K for $1000. This is my first bike and my first major purchase. I intend to use the bike for daily commutes to and from work (About 10 miles each way). When I bought the bike from a private seller he advised me to turn the fuel valve off in between rides. And so it begins...

I've ridden the bike for two days now. The issues - FIRST: It idles extremely high, around 4,700-5,000 rpm. When I start it up the needle hangs out at 2,000 and slowly makes it's way to 4k. Second: With the fuel valve turned ON, gas leaks at a frightening pace out of what (I think is) the filter? THIRD: The bike has a tendency to stall out as I ride uphill. Two times now I've been riding at 10mph in first when the bike stalls and refuses to restart. The first time this happened I pushed the bike to the top of the hill and, once on level ground, started it back up with little resistance. The second time this occurred I pushed it to the top to no avail. I was afraid I'd seriously done something wrong, but decided it might be out of gas. My dad brought me gas, I filled it up, and it ran long enough for me to drop it off at my local service station.

Reason why I think the problem revolves around gasoline issues - I filled up the tank this morning (a whole 3.5 gallons worth. Later in the day, after only riding 20 miles, it stalled out on the hill (second incident above). When my dad brought a gallon to me, the tank took it all, which means I somehow went through an entire gallon in less than 20 miles. Mind you it was stop-and-go traffic in first gear mostly, but still... and entire gallon? I feel like there's either a leak or a big problem with the gas making it to the carbs.

So in addition to any thoughts you have on what's going on, the million dollar question is - Am I looking at an expensive maintenance repair or something that a simple tune up can solve?

You might also be interested to know that before I purchased the bike it hadn't been ridden daily for about 2 years. When it runs, it runs strong... even when it idles at 5k rpm.

Otherwise, it's the best bike in the world. Thanks for everyone's responses. As soon as the shop let's me know what's up I'll let you guys know.

[Hush]

Nice looking bike too, one thing--do you know which way is choke on and choke off, new members seem to confuse this basic event.
If you pull the choke (cold start) knob fully out, that is cold start and once running you can ease the choke lever back in until the bike is runnung at a good idle.
The petrol usage you describe is extreme, better to run a V8 to work so I'd say you have carb problems, may be blocked slow idle jets.
These little suckers block easily when bikes are not run for a while and your high revving idle of 5k would make me think that yours are not working at all.

[dustyc]

I'd say cleaning the carbs, (search the board and the FAQ) a full tune up and maybe some other small jobs like rebuilding or replacing the petcock, cleaning the tank and getting rid of the inline filter which would mean replacing the fuel line -at least read up on how to orient them for best performance if you must have one.

Just maintenance stuff.

[dustyc]

Oh and welcome to the forum. 

Also, make sure your battery is charged, it's a common misconception that they can run without a battery, when in fact, they need a charged battery to run good.  It doesn't sound like the battery is your problem, but it's something to keep in the back of your head for when it's running like crap and you can't figure out why.  Somewhere here there's instructions for testing your battery.  You might want to go ahead and check it.  And read up on how to go through your electrical system.

The search box is your friend.  If you search first, you'll find many of your questions have already been answered.

[rshelbert]

Without a doubt you are in for a carb clean and adjustment.  More times than not, if these bikes are not properly maintained you will get more than one problem at once.   A few things I would do right off with any bike I get are.

Check the condition of the tank, look for rust or crud in it.  No point cleaning the carbs if the tank isnt clean. Make sure the screen is in place in the tank.

Clean the carbs, pay special attention to the condition and settings of the floats (esp the ones leaking gas), its not a bad idea to clean them 2 times while you have them off, because you will be doing it again most likely anyway.  When doing this make a note of jet sizes.    People will put about anything into a carb that will fit I swear.  I would also sugest not putting the air box boots back on until the gas leaking is resolved unless you just like punishment. 


Make sure the timing is set correctly and the components are in good shape. (a poorly times bike or bad ignition is often mistaken for carb problems, other than the gas leaking of course).

I would probably get new plugs to work with, also check the plug caps for cracks ( Sometimes you will see a grey/black line on them but the best way I have found is to run it in the dark and look for arcing in the plug area)

Also as Dustyc sais always work with a full battery, low battery can really make these things act crazy.



All of these things can be found on this board, I know because I spent many a long hours reading them.  Just about everything I have listed was bad on my bike when i got it and it acted just about like your description.


Good luck with it, this board has about every answer you will ever need. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Congrats and welcome to SOHC4.

Looks like you have a nice bike to start with. Sounds like the PO (previous owner) didn't have a mechanical clue so he sold it to someone else in the same boat to make life easy and cheap on him. Doesn't sound like anything major but you probably have multiple minor issues. First word of advice you shoud heed - BUY A HONDA BRAND SHOP MANUAL. You may be able to download off a link on this site. No, not Clymer, Haines, etc. HONDA SHOP MANUAL. You are going to have to learn to be a mechanic because mechanics for old Hondas are almost non existent and IF you find a qualified one it's gonna cost you.

You need to do a complete tune-up for starters including changing ALL fluids. Definitely sounds like the carbs need attention too. Decide on a methodical approach, one thing at a time, read your manual, use the little search box at the top, then ask all the questions you need.

We are here to help.   

[bookjockey]

Got a call from the service technician today... looks like it's going to be about $500 to get my 550k to pass inspection. The laundry list of things needing attention include: total carb cleaning, new front and rear tire, new fuel petcock, and a clutch adjustment. It would be about $50 more but I'm going to try my hand at an oil change and installing a new air filter, both of which I feel confident I can do correctly.

More questions: Will the cleaning and tune-up of my carbs help with the high idle? Right now fixing that is my number one priority... and should the replacement of the petcock eliminate the fuel leakage problem? From the searching I've done on the forum, I believe these sound like they're the right steps to correcting the problems.

I appreciate all of the responses. I can't wait to have my bike back. Right now I care about being bike-less for a week muuuuch more than paying $500.

Thanks all.

[gerhed]

Got a call from the service technician today... looks like it's going to be about $500 to get my 550k to pass inspection. The laundry list of things needing attention include: total carb cleaning, new front and rear tire, new fuel petcock, and a clutch adjustment. It would be about $50 more but I'm going to try my hand at an oil change and installing a new air filter, both of which I feel confident I can do correctly.

More questions: Will the cleaning and tune-up of my carbs help with the high idle? Right now fixing that is my number one priority... and should the replacement of the petcock eliminate the fuel leakage problem? From the searching I've done on the forum, I believe these sound like they're the right steps to correcting the problems.

I appreciate all of the responses. I can't wait to have my bike back. Right now I care about being bike-less for a week muuuuch more than paying $500.

Thanks all.

For that kind of money I'd switch to antique plates.
$50 bucks forever in Va. and no inspection.
Not sure if you have that option, though.

[Johnie]

Be sure your dealer knows what you expect before he does the work.  And I hope you have a reputable dealer that came with some references from your friends. 

I don't know if a manual came with the bike, but you should be able to turn that high idle screw down a bit.  But I am guessing the previous owner (PO) had the idle set high to keep it running though. 

Yes, the carb rebuild should address some of the problems.  And I would expect the dealer to synchronize the carbs for you after the rebuild.  The rest should be addressed as you install new plugs, have the timing set and check those plug wires.  You have to keep in mind the age of the bike.  But once you get her running good she should be a good runner for you.

Good luck with it...

[Glenn Stauffer]

Once you've owned the bike a while, you'll come to learn that you can do most of what your dealer is doing for you.  My first bike was a '77 CB550 - still have it, in fact, after 14 years.  It was my first motorcycle ever.  I bought it from a friend in rough shape for $250, put a few months work into it changing all the fluids, cleaning the carbs, tuning it up, adjusting  everything by the book and replacing all the wear parts (tires, chain, etc).  By summer, I had taken the MSF course, got my license, and started riding.  These bikes might need a bit more work than a new bike, but they do run well and have tons of personality.  Let us know how things go once you get her back from the dealer.

[Dave-and-his-550]

Welcome to the board!

I have to agree with everybody here.

It is very rewarding to work on your own bike, MORE so then riding it around. Starting with the carbs is very easy and is obviously the first step you should take to getting the bike running good. I didn't know a damn thing about my bike and I just started right in with my shop manuals and the help of the forum here, I felt very confident.

Now I understand you may be busy, but it sounds like your in your teens-twenties. It's summer!! I can't imagine you're in school. So get that bike back and start working on it yourself! First get the carbs off, its easy to clean em up, and you'll KNOW they are clean when you're done. Your mechanic will just let you know they are clean, but you don't know the extend to which he cared for your bike...

If it helps I made a thread about carbs and cleaning them HERE so look through it if you want. We can also give you easy instructions to taking them off.  As well as a few links that might help.

[bookjockey]

I WANT to be able to work on the bike, but I'm depending on it for daily rides to and from work and don't want to risk causing any more damage. I'm good with instructions, but I've never done anything more invasive than a regular oil change. So I figured let the professionals get it running and then I can take care of tuning it further.

I'll keep you guys updated.

[bookjockey]

Another quick question - where is the idle screw(throttle stop screw?) to adjust the idle? I can't seem to find that already answered on this board. Thanks

[dustyc]

Right hand side, on top of the carbs.  Big screw that you can turn with your fingers.

[BlindJoe]

Idle screw is in between carbs 3 and 4 on the right side of the bike if you are sitting on it, its about the diameter of a nickle and is knurled on the end, should be pretty easy to spot. There's probably some members in the boston area who could lend you a hand on the maintenance if you don't feel confident doing it yourself....just a thought.

[dustyc]

Something like this.  Should have made the arrow bigger.

[rshelbert]

I am going to stick with the do it yourself  on this one. 

If there is anything I have learned over the past 15 years is that taking a bike this age to a dealer/repair center is a huge mistake for these type repairs.  Odds are it will sit on the back burner for weeks on end, never get fixed right if at all.  On the odd chance you do get it fixed it cost more than you are told by at least 3 times.  You refuse or cannot afford to pay they keep the bike you are out of whatever you have in it.   I have seen it more times than you would believe.

If you were a few miles north around Nashville I would help you out for the parts needed.  Another thing you might try is advertising you need help in Craigslist. that is how a guy found me to help him work on his bike.

I think you would be surprised at how easy and fun repairing them can be, next thing you know you will have 7 of them in about 200 pieces in your garage, bedroom, living room.  The funny thing is you wont even know how they got there.  You will also find yourself stopping and looking hard into barns and sheds, under tarps seeing what is in there.    Not that I do that or anything!

[trprbill]

Nice bike! I can tell by the gas stain on the engine cover that the carbs need cleaned. Good Luck!

[Shenanigans]

I am going to stick with the do it yourself  on this one. 

+1

With these old bike you pretty much NEED to know how to do this basic stuff (Unless you have a bottomless wallet). It may seem daunting at first but if you take it step by step I think you will find it fairly simple.

Repair shops will pretty much rape you with the small repairs like this. Working on these bikes comes with owning them. You say you want it as a daily rider, well then after a while you will have to become pretty familiar with how everything works. Would you rather everything under you seat function mysteriously or would you rather know whats going on and how to fix it? You must NOT be afraid to tinker with it. If you want a daily driver that you don't have to work on or do basic repairs on you will have to go buy a new bike
And you might even find the whole being to work on your own bike thing fun/rewarding.

And good luck, you will find that the 550's are excellent bikes.

Just my 3cents...

[mcpuffett]

Best way to learn about your new bike is to fix it yourself  you will get plenty of help and encouragement here  cheers Mick.

[troppo]

I agree with what all the others have said, these old girls arent all that complicated or scarey (apart from the carbs that is, they belong in the dark arts cupboard lol )
You will get burned in a bike shop, most of them dont know anything about these old girls and theres a few horror stories on the pages of this forum about it.
These bikes grow on you really quickly, believe me you will soon find yourself reading a post and thinking "so thats what it is, i reckon i could fix that", and the did it yourself feeling is the best you will ever know. How many crotch rocket riders do you know that can fix their own bikes? Or even know what makes them tick?

[Hush]

Here here Troppo, I bet not too many Harley riders do their own work, I know none of the staff at work who paid $25k plus for their machines couldn't change the spark plug or the oil ha ha ha....SOHC bikes rule........when we get them going.

[dustyc]

...when we get them going.

Hey speak for yourself.    I built my first one out of a box of parts in a couple days. 

I figure I can take my time with the others as long as I've got a couple that run.

[bookjockey]

Unfortunately the mechanic working on my bike drilled out the pilot jet and ruined the carbs, leaving my 550k carb-less. Is there any place online that sells OEM carb parts? Does anyone have anything that can help? The shop attendant said he had individuals looking around for carbs, but since I called last (about 2 hours ago) nothing has come up. What about Babbitts Sports Center? http://www.babbittsonline.com/pages/parts/viewbybrand/default.aspx Is this what I'm looking for?

Incompetence makes me angry...

Thanks for the help.

[Scrubs]

If you have set the idle correctly, and it's still revving high. (Bear in mind sometimes with these bikes the revs increase
at idle as the bike warms up so once it is fully warmed up  set the idle to taround 1200rpm..
sometimes takes a bit of experimenting to find the best for your bike.. i.e enough idle not to stall when cold
and not so much that it will rev its bollocks off when its warm.

If it's still revving high after this. check for air intake leaks at the carb boots both sides on all carbs.
spray some WD40 on each one and see if the revs slow down. Also spray some on the header
pipes as they come out of the head at the clamps and see if the wd40 starts bubbling - indicating a leak.

As for the fuel consumption. You have mentioned the leak at the petcock, there is a diaphram in there -
replace it. EDIT: I just realised that you said it wasent coming from the petcock but air filter..
thats where all your fuel is going the carb float is sticking or at the wrong height - not only will you
be losing fuel through the filter but through the over flow pipe too. take the float bowl off
and move them up and down to check for any foul play. if that doesent help, the carbs will have to come off
depending on you're patience for the float height to be set.

As for the power stalling up hill issue: I had this problem once, in that there was no power there whatsoever.
are you sure its firing on all four cylinders? touch each header pipe to see if they are all piping hot.