Author Topic: ARRRRGHHHHH!!!!! Broke my clutch lifter plate!!! K2 750 (Read 8413 times)

coyotecowboy · « **on:** July 11, 2008, 05:01:50 PM »

Got home from work, drained the oil, and popped the clutch apart enough to get at the springs. Slid the new Barnett springs in and started taking it back down, keeping everything as even as I could. Thought it was going together fine, and I was just starting to get the bolts snug, TICK!!! I know that sound

Breaking aluminimum. Dammit. Dammit dammit dammit!!!!!!!

Do any of you gurus here

know where a guy could get a lifter plate? All of the other 750s in town are running, so I doubt the owners would want to part with theirs.

What a way to start the weekend

jsaab2748 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 11, 2008, 05:33:15 PM »

Plan on being down for a week or two and bid wisely on e bay.
Shouldn't be too hard to find. Been there and done that. Sorry
bout the back luck. Check the "buy it now" only auctions as well.
You might get lucky. May be available new also, dealer, service Honda, etc....

Tower · « **Reply #2 on:** July 11, 2008, 05:46:40 PM »

This part is still available from Honda. Part# 22360-300-010. About $50.00. Outrageous, I know for an $8.00 part. But its one of those parts that everyone seems to love breaking.

MRieck · « **Reply #3 on:** July 11, 2008, 05:53:35 PM »

I PM'd you.

kpier883 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2008, 07:03:10 PM »

Quote from: coyotecowboy on July 11, 2008, 05:01:50 PM

... Thought it was going together fine, and I was just starting to get the bolts snug, TICK!!! I know that sound Breaking aluminimum. Dammit. Dammit dammit dammit!!!!!!!

I broke mine about 2 years ago too. I was so lucky because an auction was ending for the part I needed that same day. I bought it and received it the next week. I also bought an inch-pound style torque wrench. You better believe that I used that wrench to tighten the new one!

Two tips - tighten every bolt one turn in succession until they start to tighten, then switch to 1/4 turn each time until you get them all torqued.

Use the published values for the torque.

I had no problems when I used that method.

Maybe you will be as lucky as I was.

Kirk Pierce

UJM · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2009, 01:15:15 PM »

I've joined the club -

Snapped mine this PM -

Ordered a complete assembly with what appears to be an aftermarket machined plate -

I'd love the torque specs if anyone has them, please.

Thank you

pg13 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2009, 01:39:08 PM »

clymer manual says 6-7ft.-lb.(8-10N.m)

i may be a newb but i know the clutch section inside and out... wish i didnt

eurban · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2009, 01:55:40 PM »

One thing to keep in mind is that the clutch center and the pressure plate must mesh properly. When you loosen up the bolts / springs there is no longer force pulling the towers on the pressure plate assembly outwards alowing it to fall back a bit towards the engine. It won't necessarily pull forward and remesh properly if you simply tighten down the bolts after spring replacement. If the teeth aren't meshed the lifter plate will never be able to seat on the towers and you will easily break the assembly. You should pull the towers towards you feeling the pressure plate mesh with the clutch center and then keep some tension until you hand tighten the bolts enough that the springs are keeping the pressure plate meshed. Then tighten each one a little bit at a time until the lifter seats on the towers. Once seated then torque to factory spec. . . .If you have completely disassembled the clutch it is also possible to install the pressure plate 90 degrees out where its teeth will not mesh with the clutch center at all. Tightening things down in this orientation is sure to crack the lifter plate. Factory manual suggests marking the original orientation upon dissassembly. Good luck with the next one!

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2009, 03:13:20 PM »

Another thing to keep in mind is that you use correct replacement springs. That was the last straw with the kid behind the local Honda counter. Sold me springs for the DOHC 750. Too long. I got pretty smart when I snapped the 2nd one even with correct torque. I put the old springs back in.

UJM · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2009, 04:28:40 PM »

Wow, great information!

And I experienced the pressure plate mesh with the clutch center issue, it did take two tries for me to get it "right" - the first time, I knew something what whacked as I could sping the inner hub when it was all together, then, admittedly, I reinstalled the spring bolts unevenly.......

Using stiffer springs too, probably the combination caused the failure.

I'm interested in the replacement, it appears to be aftermarket, we'll see.

Any tips on where to buy the proper tool to remove the center bolt - I used a drift to get it on and off.

Also, a replacement lock washer plate - already found the nut locally and it is still in the package......

Thank you all!

KB02 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2009, 09:01:54 AM »

When putting my F1 engine back together, I broke the same part. I ordered a new from Honda, and broke that, too.

My dad, the machinist, made up a jig to hold the pieces together and had it welded back together. It held and I rode it that way. He welded both peices and I still have the second still sitting in the jig.

You can believe that I will be VERY careful putting the clutch together on my K8.

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:41:14 PM »

Eurban,Well written and correct,probably the biggest problem for people experiencing clutch work for the first time.As a former Sv mgr this had to be #1 problem if customer went inside and also broken plate.Bill

ev0lve · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2009, 01:42:50 PM »

Quote from: UJM on July 18, 2009, 04:28:40 PM

Any tips on where to buy the proper tool to remove the center bolt - I used a drift to get it on and off.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2867

Achmed · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:30:40 PM »

I also broke two of those things myself on the F1, if it's the part with the bolt castings on it. I think we figured we might have an extra friction disc in there, too, so I have an extra one. It simply wouldn't go on with the number of discs in the Clymer picture. Maybe I didn't make sure it was meshed right? Is there any difference in the number of discs on different models? Looking at the Honda shop manual it is pretty explicit about the assembly so I will make sure to use that next time. Expensive mistake(s)(s)(s)(s)...

It's been working fine in limited use over the last few years but I am left wondering if I have all the discs in there.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2009, 05:07:12 AM »

Quote from: Iggy on July 19, 2009, 01:42:50 PM

Quote from: UJM on July 18, 2009, 04:28:40 PM

Any tips on where to buy the proper tool to remove the center bolt - I used a drift to get it on and off.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2867

the correct tool is still available as a honda part - double ended castellated nut socket with two sizes. The part number I got from an RS250 Honda manual years back and it's been totally invaluable since.

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:53:08 AM »

Lord Moonpie nailed it. If you work on bikes might as well have both sides Honda oem # 07716-0020100.Don't know the cost.Bill

ron.cieri.313 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2009, 10:37:09 AM »

Fyi...the "special socket" to remove this locknut (on a CB750 clutch) will also work perfectly for the locknut on the 450 oil filter...in case you have both machines which I do.

KB02 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2009, 06:58:59 PM »

Quote from: KB02 on July 19, 2009, 09:01:54 AM

When putting my F1 engine back together, I broke the same part. I ordered a new from Honda, and broke that, too. My dad, the machinist, made up a jig to hold the pieces together and had it welded back together. It held and I rode it that way. He welded both peices and I still have the second still sitting in the jig.

You can believe that I will be VERY careful putting the clutch together on my K8.

I got my Heavy Duty clutch kit from APE in the mail today, with the extra disks. I just had to put them in tonight. That was pretty much the only thing keeping the engine from being completely buttoned up. You better believe the WHOLE time this tread was running through my head. I was sitting there with vernier calipers measuring to make sure that I was keeping everything even. I got butterflies in my stomach when the bolts started tightening up near the end. The torque wrench clicked on the first bolt and then everything around me became very still as I had stopped breathing. They all clicked, right in sequence, and the clutch is together.

I figured that was good for one night. I went in and had a scotch.

hapakev · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2009, 07:10:44 PM »

Quote from: UJM on July 18, 2009, 01:15:15 PM

Ordered a complete assembly with what appears to be an aftermarket machined plate -

It looks stock, but they put the plate on backwards.

UJM · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2009, 07:44:48 PM »

Quote from: hapakev on July 20, 2009, 07:10:44 PM

It looks stock, but they put the plate on backwards.

LMAO - I feel stupid for not catching that!

Good, no - great catch, thank you!

Count_chockula · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2009, 04:16:34 PM »

I too just join the ranks of breaking this piece!

I know how this happened to... as I was tightening the screws down the plate got hung up on the tower and I didn't catch it until it was WAY to late... guess that I will be ordering one tomorrow...

Also, as eurban stated...

Quote

When you loosen up the bolts / springs there is no longer force pulling the towers on the pressure plate assembly out wards allowing it to fall back a bit towards the engine. It won't necessarily pull forward and remesh properly if you simply tighten down the bolts after spring replacement.

Well I figured out how to get around this for people in the future. When you go to put the plate back on use one of the "longer" bolts/screws from the cover to allow you to "pull" the outer clutch in place. Place the screw into the plate, while holding one of the towers, and then start one or two of the "real" bolts. This should allow you get the lifter plate back in place without losing the alignment of the outer/inner clutches.

CB_Jeff · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2012, 05:18:10 PM »

I now have a broken lifter plate as well, anyone have a spare they would like to part with?

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2012, 06:08:45 PM »

Just put mine together. No problem this round but I have broken 2 in the past.

This was my approach: Got all 4 bolts started. Tightened the first 2 opposing bolts a couple quarter turns. As these screwed in it loosens up the other 2 opposing bolts. Gave these other 2 a couple quarter turns until they snugged up. Made measurements of my downward progress on all 4. Evened them out. I then took this 2nd set down another couple quater turns. I repeated this until they got close to bottoming out. Kept measuring. At this point as they started tightening I noticed that one ear was "off" measurement. I inserted my dental mirror inside and took a peek. I had 3 springs seated correctly and one was cock-eyed. Backed them all off until I could reseat that one spring and started over. Kept measuring as I went. When they started bottoming I got out my torque wrench and again did opposing sets. Started off at ~ 6lb on all, then 8lb then stopped at 10lb.

The earlier clutches and later clutches are different and then there is the "factory fix" that creates a hybrid clutch pack to minimize rattle. I'm planning on doing an article on this once I "update"/modify the older style cover I powder coated by mistake

Should be withiin the next week. Stay tuned. It will explain all that I mention and how to ID which you have.

scottly · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2012, 06:44:18 PM »

Hey Jerry, when you modify the boss on the cover, only remove enough for adequate clearance. The depth of the hole is at least 1/8" more on the K1 cover than the K7, so there might not be as much meat there as it looks?

nikcorg · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:08:38 PM »

My clutch on my CB750K7 yesterday said "snap", getting stuck in disengaged position and wouldn't return without helping by hand. From discussions on another forum, I'm thinking it has to do with the clutch lifter assy, or specifically the clutch lifter cam.

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on April 05, 2012, 06:08:45 PM

The earlier clutches and later clutches are different and then there is the "factory fix" that creates a hybrid clutch pack to minimize rattle. I'm planning on doing an article on this once I "update"/modify the older style cover I powder coated by mistake Should be withiin the next week. Stay tuned. It will explain all that I mention and how to ID which you have.

Can you elaborate on how the earlier and later clutches differ?

I found a used clutch lifter assy set, but I'm a bit concerned since it's being offered to fit any 750K. However, the parts list on CMSNL says the some parts that I need are only upto #2731486. As far as I can tell (I'm quite the newb) those parts look identical to their successors. Why this concerns me, is because I would need the earlier parts (my bike is #272...) but they're not available through CMSNL.

lucky · « **Reply #25 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:27:40 PM »

Quote from: UJM on July 18, 2009, 01:15:15 PM

I've joined the club -

Snapped mine this PM -

Ordered a complete assembly with what appears to be an aftermarket machined plate -

I'd love the torque specs if anyone has them, please.

Thank you

This was not your fault.
It happens to the best mechanics.
They follow the directions and it breaks. Very frustrating!!
The problem is that there are grooves on the back that must fit over posts.
You are tightening down the plate over 4 springs that have to line up over some grooves.
What you have to do is during the tightening of the plate bolts keep tapping the plate all around with a big screw driver handle so that one of the corners does not get hung up.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #26 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:27:40 PM »

Lots of complaints about the 'earlier' clutches rattling. Honda came out with a field fix that inserted a Goldwing clutch plate into the mix. This is a double plate that took up a little more space. In order to make this work they removed an existing plate and disc. Etc.

75 Clutch pack

78 Clutch pack with ALL plates installed (nothing removed like the 'fix')

After this 'fix' Honda redesigned some of the components I'm thinking in '77. In order for this Goldwing part to fit the basket had to be lengthened and the cover modified.

Etc....................................................

The lifter plate part number 22360-300-010 is listing as fitting ALL the 750's. From Motogrid:

CB750F A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-1000002 TO CB750F-1015054
CB750F A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2000003 TO CB750F-2022317
CB750F A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2100011 TO CB750F-2111489
CB750F A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2200001
CB750K A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2540001 TO CB750-2575894
CB750K A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2700009 TO CB750-2729534
CB750K A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2800001
CB750K0 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-1000001
CB750K1 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-1044650
CB750K2 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2000001
CB750K3 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2200001
CB750K4 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2300001
CB750K5 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2500001

nikcorg · « **Reply #27 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:43:17 AM »

Thanks.

specifically, I'm looking at the cam lifter, which is available as new from CMSNL, but only for #273... onwards. (My bike is a #272...)

I haven't yet taken the clutch apart (looking for a space to rent and the clutch malfunctioned only yesterday), but I'm told the problem is common for Honda clutches. The theory being the small plug on the came lifter becomes worn out and snaps over, or something, which is why the clutch won't return to engaged position on its' own. (I'm not very gifted with engines and my english jargon for the territory is lacking as well. I'm relying on an experienced friend to get the job done.)

Specifically what I'm asking is, can I replace part no. 22830300000 with part no. 22830410010? To my untrained eye, the parts look identical.

My other option is to get the used full lifter assy and hope it fits.

~~PS. Sorry for the malformed links, but I'm not (yet?) allowed to post external links, it says.~~

Edit. I managed to find a new old stock part with the correct part no. on ebay, but I'm still interested in your response. Parts for the bikes are getting harder and harder to find and the K7 is hard anyway, so it would be nice to know which parts have changed over the years and which ones could potentially be usable, even though the part no. mismatches.

Edit2. Fixed the links

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #28 on:** August 31, 2012, 01:08:20 AM »

I have both but have not had the time to get back into it and check it out. One has a larger diameter shaft. Stueveone is mixing and matching parts in another thread. Check in there. Is this telling us the older one will work in all but the newer one will only work in 77/78?! Perhaps?!

22830-300-00

CB400F A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB400F-2000001 TO CB400F-2008280
CB400F A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB400F-2100001 TO CB400F-2104166
CB750F A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-1000002 TO CB750F-1015054
CB750F A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2000003 TO CB750F-2022317
CB750F A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2100011 TO CB750F-2111489
CB750F A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2200001
CB750K A (76) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2540001 TO CB750-2575894
CB750K A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2700009 TO CB750-2729534
CB750K A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2800001
CLUTCH COVER
CB750K0 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-1000001
CB750K1 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-1044650
CB750K2 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2000001
CB750K3 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2200001
CB750K4 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2300001
CLUTCH COVER
CB750K5 A MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2500001
CLUTCH COVER

22830-410-010 is from the newer updated clutch

CB750F A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2100011 TO CB750F-2111489
CB750F A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750F-2200001
CB750K A (77) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2700009 TO CB750-2729534
CB750K A (78) MOTORCYCLE, JPN, VIN# CB750-2800001

nikcorg · « **Reply #29 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:14:10 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Rxman Griffin on August 31, 2012, 01:08:20 AM

I have both but have not had the time to get back into it and check it out. One has a larger diameter shaft. Stueveone is mixing and matching parts in another thread. Check in there. Is this telling us the older one will work in all but the newer one will only work in 77/78?! Perhaps?!

Ok, that makes sense. As there are no measurements in the photos it would be quite impossible to tell a small difference in the shaft diameter.

Looking at your list, it conflicts with what CMSNL is saying, if I'm reading this correctly. I already ordered the older version off ebay, hoping now it does indeed fit the newer one, if that's the one I have. No biggie if it doesn't, i can always order the newer one, but that would probably cut my driving season short. October usually doesn't provide many pleasant days for riding.

Thanks for your effort.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #30 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:04:52 PM »

That info is copied and pasted from Motogrid.

lucky · « **Reply #31 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:58:50 PM »

This thread has wandered all over the place, but it started out being about the broken lifter plate problem.

The clutch basket on the 1977-78 model was improved.

The lifter plate was still a problem.
Worst I have seen on any Honda.

74750k4 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 05, 2013, 07:15:51 AM »

Broke 3 plates. had a factory part on order from Partzilla back ordered 5 months. They just refunded me. Cannot get it anymore.

News:

Author Topic: ARRRRGHHHHH!!!!! Broke my clutch lifter plate!!! K2 750 (Read 8413 times)

jsaab2748