Author Topic: Other Questions?  (Read 2448 times)

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Offline RM81

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Other Questions?
« on: August 21, 2008, 05:54:21 PM »
Thought my bike was running a little too lean (blue chrome on headers) so I took a look at the plugs.  Also, it was idling kinda high.  By looking at several pictures on the internet, they look a tad bit hot, but wanted to get a second opinion.  I adjusted the idle down some.  Will that help, or do I have to adjust each carb to make a difference?  I've read through the carb FAQ's, which the answer to lean seems to adjust the jet size.  That's more than I want (or know how) to do.

Bike: 82 Honda CM450A

Has about 1000 miles since I changed the plugs.   The previous plugs seemed to be carbon fouled.  My uncle helped me clean the carbs, but didn't do any adjustments.  Basically just took them off, cleaned them out with the spray can carb cleaner and put them back on.  I also think I'm hearing a tapping sound.  Is that the valve clearance causing that?  Any thoughts or recommendations are greatly appreciated.

What do you guys think?

Left side plug


Right side plug
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 01:25:03 PM by OldRusty »

Offline kslrr

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 06:05:47 PM »
Those look to be on the lean side or are of a hotter type than recommended for that engine.
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Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 06:09:24 PM »
Those look to be on the lean side or are of a hotter type than recommended for that engine.

They're DR8ESL, which is what the Clymer manual recommends.

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 07:06:20 PM »
I see them as too hot and/or the fuel mix is too lean. They look like # 23 in this chart to me.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/plug_chart.html

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Offline Green550F

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 07:20:27 PM »
I agree. Looks hot to me, and I've got a crappy monitor that makes all pics look dark! ;D
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Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 08:01:04 PM »
So we have come to the conclusion that they are a little hot.  Is this something I should worry about.  I too think it was around a 22 or 23 on that chart.  It says Hot or Lean, but OK?  Any suggestions on if or how I should remedy this, or will it be ok to run it like it is?  Thanks for the responses.

Offline kslrr

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 08:46:29 PM »
As far as you know, the carbs, air filter and pipes are stock?  Also, just spraying the carbs without taking them apart does not assure that all the passages are clean.
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 05:07:17 AM »
As far as you know, the carbs, air filter and pipes are stock?  Also, just spraying the carbs without taking them apart does not assure that all the passages are clean.

Yes, all stock (as far as I know).  It looked like he did a pretty good job cleaning them.  He showed me how a couple of the passages were blocked and then shot the cleaner until it came out the other side.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 05:42:35 AM »
Have you checked for air leaks in the induction system?  If your bike is stock, you should not need to change the jet sizes.

If you have not done a complete maintenance cycle (valves, cam chain, timing, carb sync, etc) then do so now.

mystic_1
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Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 10:57:00 AM »
Have you checked for air leaks in the induction system?  If your bike is stock, you should not need to change the jet sizes.

If you have not done a complete maintenance cycle (valves, cam chain, timing, carb sync, etc) then do so now.

mystic_1
Haven't done that yet.  Living in an apt right now in the middle of buying a house.  So it'll either have to wait, or I'll have to take it to a shop to get that done.

Do you think it would damage it riding it for another month or so like it is until we move into the house where I'll have the garage space to do it?

Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 07:49:07 AM »
I called around to the local Honda shops today and none of them will work on a bike that old (82).  So I guess I'm stuck until I get the garage space to do it myself.  Kinda makes me a little mad that a company manufactured a product, sold it, but won't touch it twenty years later.  Oh well, I'm under contract on a house and should close within a month and a half.  Is it a two-car garage, or a four-bike garage?  That gives me a reason to buy two more bikes.  ;D

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2008, 09:46:50 AM »
Rusty, I would not stress over it a bunch. I trust my own work over some of the younger guys anyway. It's not a Honda decision to drop service - it's the dealership that probably doesn't have the manuals and parts in stock to make the repairs. Also a lot of older bikes get repaired and never pick-up because their repair cost exceeded the value the owner wanted to invest.

Your mixture problem ill get worse though in a few weeks as the weather cools down and the air becomes more dense. Why not just raise your needles 1 clip? That is - move your clips down one slot - this raises the needle and it is the one circuit that will have the most dramatic affect on your cruise and top-end mixture. Nothing to buy, nothing to replace - a simple adjustment that can be done in a few minutes without gaskets, no carb removal - simple as pie.

I think there is likely some oxidation in the fuel feeds, emulsion tubes - somewhere you've got blockage. This raising the needle by 1 step should give you back the color you need now and in the weeks to come as air temps drop. When you get that garage, then you can really get in there and figure the problems out. Be sure to buy the right work stand. There is nothing like sitting on a stool and having your work conveniently at eye level --

Gordon

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Offline RM81

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Re: How do these plugs look?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2008, 05:59:15 PM »
...
Why not just raise your needles 1 clip? That is - move your clips down one slot - this raises the needle and it is the one circuit that will have the most dramatic affect on your cruise and top-end mixture. Nothing to buy, nothing to replace - a simple adjustment that can be done in a few minutes without gaskets, no carb removal - simple as pie.
...

Care to give a little more detail?  I'm a total noob.  I looked through my Clymer manual and didn't see anything like that.  I can also adjust the cam chain right now which may help the noise I'm hearing.  When I get the space, I plan on doing the full tuneup.

Nice collection of bikes.  Where do you find the time to ride them all?

Offline RM81

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Re: Other Questions?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 01:27:36 PM »
Another question.  Got ahold of someone that will work on an older bike.  How long should it take someone that knew what they were doing to adjust valve clearances, and sync carbs?  Was quoted 4-5 hours.  Does that sound right?

Offline tbpmusic

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Re: Other Questions?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2008, 01:44:58 PM »
Another question.  Got ahold of someone that will work on an older bike.  How long should it take someone that knew what they were doing to adjust valve clearances, and sync carbs?  Was quoted 4-5 hours.  Does that sound right?

Not to me - unless they count letting the engine cool for two hours to do the valves.

1-1/2 to 2 hours sounds more than reasonable, assuming the carbs actually respond properly.

bill2
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Offline RM81

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Re: Other Questions?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 06:29:00 PM »
Another question.  Got ahold of someone that will work on an older bike.  How long should it take someone that knew what they were doing to adjust valve clearances, and sync carbs?  Was quoted 4-5 hours.  Does that sound right?

Not to me - unless they count letting the engine cool for two hours to do the valves.

1-1/2 to 2 hours sounds more than reasonable, assuming the carbs actually respond properly.

bill2

Thanks for the input.  I was thinking it shouldn't take longer than two hours.  I think he was just trying to sucker me in.  I guess I'll be waiting and learn how to do it myself.