Topic: Question for the metal workers

[Sporkfly]

Hey guys,

After doing some reading and looking at some projects (here and other boards) I now have an interest in metal lathes and mills. I'm curious about brands, prices, specifications and any reading I should do. I'll likely end up taking a class on manufacturing (that's what the university calls the machine class I think). The prospect of being able to fabricate more things is very attractive and interesting to me.

[martino1972]

with some luck and searching you can pick up a lathe and/or a mill fairly cheap,the old once are the good onces...
problem is the tool bit's for em,they are gonne break the bank......

[AHuff]

My 2¢, don't even think about buying any sort of machine yet. Check out local technical colleges, I have been in this program for almost 2 years now and will continue to be for a long long while. Access to multiple machines, both manual and CNC lathes, both manual and CNC vertical mills, horizontal mill, wire EDM machine, a completely stocked toolroom, and the wealth of knowledge from others makes the tuition seem like peanuts.

http://www.ttcnashville.edu/programs/machine-tool-technology.htm

And the previous comment on tooling is spot on, the sky is the limit....

[crazypj]

My 2¢, don't even think about buying any sort of machine yet. Check out local technical colleges, I have been in this program for almost 2 years now and will continue to be for a long long while. Access to multiple machines, both manual and CNC lathes, both manual and CNC vertical mills, horizontal mill, wire EDM machine, a completely stocked toolroom, and the wealth of knowledge from others makes the tuition seem like peanuts.
And the previous comment on tooling is spot on, the sky is the limit....

 

I'll second that, I trained as a machinist, specialised on center lathe. You won't use machines half as much as you think so they spend a lot of time as expensive paperweights, but, when you need them, you got them.
 Unless you intend doing extensive machining, the cheap mini mill and mini lathe from Harbor Freight works fine after you set it up. Your still looking almost $1000.00 for a real small, cheap set up though ( plus the tooling is ongoing and gets expensive real quick, there is always something else you need to get )
PJ

[FunJimmy]

I purchased my lathe from www.grizzley.com.
They have a few showrooms around the US and will ship to your door if required.
I'm very pleased with the quality, price and service from these guys.

Any lathe/mill will be a compromise. If you can afford to, buy a dedicated lathe and separate milling machine.

FJ

[754]

You can get through a huge varity of jobs on a lathe one you understand how to grind and use High speed steel toolbits.

But, you need a basic understanding of a smaller machine to get the most out of it.. I can take off .100 total on steel with HSS, but some have trouble trying that.. (talking a 9 in South Bend)

I use my big lathe mostly, much faster and easy threading..

ZOn a mill though, you have to buy lots of tooling, boring head, rotary table, index head are almost a must for many jobs..

We can advise you if you describe a machine you are thinking of, some of the older US stuff runs forever..

[XN]

Personally I would spend your time and money on a modeling program (find an old copy for free hopefully) I trained and worked as an automotive machinist so I know a little about a lot of machines... I've dreamed of owning my own equipment, but as said tooling, setup, 3phase electrical service...  can go thru the roof cost wise and if you don't know how to cut things properly you can damage an expensive cutter quickly. I got very lucky and one of my friends has a CNC mill in his garage. As long as I do a model for him he does most stuff for material costs only being he has minimal time invested in it. So I guess what I'm saying is you may be better off drawing what you want and having it made then trying to build it yourself...

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Personally I would spend your time and money on a modeling program (find an old copy for free hopefully) I trained and worked as an automotive machinist so I know a little about a lot of machines... I've dreamed of owning my own equipment, but as said tooling, setup, 3phase electrical service...  can go thru the roof cost wise and if you don't know how to cut things properly you can damage an expensive cutter quickly. I got very lucky and one of my friends has a CNC mill in his garage. As long as I do a model for him he does most stuff for material costs only being he has minimal time invested in it. So I guess what I'm saying is you may be better off drawing what you want and having it made then trying to build it yourself...

+1

[Steve F]

The recommendation of attending a trade school for the metal working trade will benefit you greatly.  You will learn proper technique, safety, programming the CNC stuff, manual machining, and bluepring reading and maybe some mechanical drafting classes too.  I've been in the trade since 1972, and love the work since I'm in the tooling end of the business, and not in the boring production end.  I have opportunity to use just about every type of machine out there, including CNC mills, lathes and wire EDM.  I'm also fortunate enough to have a boss that lets me use the machinery for personal things, as long as I do the "government jobs" on my own time and I don't interfere with the other guys.  I'ts worked out great that way for me, but maybe your situation wouldn't allow you to have access to machinery that you don't own.  What ever you do, at least try to get some training, whether it be from a trade school, or from someone that does this type of work, you then would have a better idea if buying your own equipment would be beneficial.  Who knows, maybe you'll like it enough to invest in some equipment and start your own metal fabrication business?

Steve

[Soos]

+1 on the training.

If for nothing else than the proper use, application, and care of the machine and the tools used.

Not to mention safety.

Look up pictures of machine shop accidents.
(you might not want to unless you can handle missing fingers, chunks of flesh, and general mangling of human flesh)

I have known a few machinists that have accidentally:

Cut off fingers(in a plethora of ways on mills, lathes, keyway cutter, gear hobbing machine)
Wrapped arm around a 4" drill bit (resulting in 6 or 7 breaks, got to watch that one )
pressed arm into a meat wafer resulting in a nub of an arm.
removed clothing and chest hairs(on lathes)
had clumps of hair removed (on a mill, chick had waist length hair, pulled 1/4 of it out, along with the scalp)

And thats just a few to mention.


Really good (careful) machinists(or lucky ones) retire without major incidents.
Cocky machinists, and those who take on more than they know how to do tend to die or get maimed seriously.


If you get one.... PLEASE be careful.
Reading about motorcycle accidents here is more than enough.



You want some stuff machined?
Get to know a retired machinist that has machines, or a working machinist with machines at home(or a machine shop owner) and bribe him...
Often and frequently
The few guys I know with home shops don't make much money with their home shop.
But they are willing to do the oddball stuff most big shops would either overcharge for or will not do.


Seriously though, $3000 will go a LONG way when you are in with a good machinist with a home shop.
$3000 will BARELY set you up with a good lathe, tooling, and the wiring needed.



l8r

[Soos]

And I have been trained as well.
Gotts me uh sertifficate 2 pruve itt az well!



I have been machining for nearly 11 years with no accidents yet.(nothing past a few nicks and cuts, mainly due to handling materials)

The pay is OK, the work is ok... personal projects are the tits though!


Certifications are just paper, like a college degree.
I have met a few older machinists that are not as fast, but the tricks and shortcuts they know allow them to make more and better parts than most "certified" machinists I know.
So IF you decide to go ahead and buy a mill/lathe seek out a tech. school or VERY experienced machinist.

I plan on buying a nice lathe and mill one day.
But the $$ is the holding point.
Over the past 5 or 6 years I have been scouring E-bay for tools and such I know I will want(need).
By the time I get enough to buy a mill and lathe I hope to have the basics covered.(as far as tooling and measuring equipment)
Thank god I was required to learn how to grind my own lathe tooling...
HSS and brazed carbide tooling is cheap compared to indexable inserts and holders!



l8r

[Alan F.]

+1 on the harbor freight and other small machines, they WILL require some tweaking and tuning, but even a mainland china operation can't screw up CNC production completely....

+1 on the tooling being a major money issue, I've found a local machine reseller with a large inventory of used tooling for short money, a mini-machine tool can't take a deep cut with a lot of power anyway so used or reground tooling is perfectly useful.

+1 on the older American machines running forever, there are even some models small enough...but large enough. Watch out for some ebay sellers and the used-up clunkers they offer, post an ad in your local paper, tack one up at the coffee shop, and ask around, lots of guys retired with plans to use machinery they'd picked up over the years, then health issues surfaced and the machinery just sat forgotten.

+1 on the training and mentoring, Those experienced guys forgot more than we'll probably learn in this decade, check out the old machinists' handbooks from the pre-war era, and join a few internet groups like the ones on yahoo and google, there are a lot of old-timers there sharing what they know, as well as not so old-timers with deep pockets who try out all of the new gadgets as they come along, lots of info there to be had.

Large or heavy machines can sometimes can often be bought cheaply, the trick is to move them, have space for them, and have the wiring in your shop to support them.

But I've got to warn you that it'll become a hobby in itself, and may crowd out some of your riding and wrenching time.... but enjoy.

[Sporkfly]

Thanks for the responses guys. Excellent input. Like I said, I'm considering some machine classes next semester here and I know it will be addicting so I figured I'd get some input now and start scouring ebay and CL. There's a nice lathe from '64 on ebay right now, I'm keeping an eye on the price.

Safety is definitely something I like to be well aware of. I've seen and had close calls with basic hand tools and I respect the power of tools that could easily take an arm.

[Soos]

One pitfall I will warn you of with lathes/mills etc...

If buying used, see it run first!
Do check all feeds in all directions, try the threading gears, etc...

If it's new... probably not going to be any major problems.



A good example....

I worked for a company in salt lake city (nickerson pump company) that has a $50,000 paper weight.
And thats just the machine, not to mention the 5+ foot deep concrete base it sits on, and thousands thrown at it through electricians and installers, or the movers that got it to utah from Oregon.

They had sent the lead machinist to look at the machine, looked good, price was REALLY nice... Too nice if you asked me at the time. Even came with a LOT of tooling tiedowns and such.
However, it had been sitting for 5 years when they bought it.
Not only that, but it had no power to it, so he could not verify whether it really worked or not, just had the machine owners word it was in good running condition.

It still isn't running 5 years later.





l8r

[goon 1492]

One pitfall I will warn you of with lathes/mills etc...

If buying used, see it run first!
Do check all feeds in all directions, try the threading gears, etc...

If it's new... probably not going to be any major problems.



A good example....

I worked for a company in salt lake city (nickerson pump company) that has a $50,000 paper weight.
And thats just the machine, not to mention the 5+ foot deep concrete base it sits on, and thousands thrown at it through electricians and installers, or the movers that got it to utah from Oregon.

They had sent the lead machinist to look at the machine, looked good, price was REALLY nice... Too nice if you asked me at the time. Even came with a LOT of tooling tiedowns and such.
However, it had been sitting for 5 years when they bought it.
Not only that, but it had no power to it, so he could not verify whether it really worked or not, just had the machine owners word it was in good running condition.

It still isn't running 5 years later.





l8r

+1 also what he said always see it run, you'll thank yourself later. I also am in favor of the local trade shool, the one here in kansas city, kansas is 50.00$ for evening intro classes, after that you can sign up for the same class and the teacher will let you have your way with the machines(and his help of course) the one here is even sweeter because during the day the same teacher teaches a motorcycle mechanics class

[crazypj]

And I have been trained as well.
Gotts me uh sertifficate 2 pruve itt az well!

I plan on buying a nice lathe and mill one day.
l8r

 I've been planning on getting a 'nice lathe for over 30 yrs
 Had a Colchester Triumph but sold it when I moved to USA.
 Took years to get the cheapy HF mini lathe I have now, but, its probably more practical than something that weighed a ton ( 2200lbs+) and would turn 10" dia 4ft long when I make valve guides and such ( difficult to get used o 0.010" cuts instead of 0.500" though )
PJ

[Soos]

I'm not too sure I could get used to 0.010 cuts.
Thats gotta be a serious effort to restrain yourself.

But you gotta work the machine to it's capabilities I guess...

l8r

[754]

When you call about a lowprice machine, ask if it is rusty.. even they even hint it has some.. start asking questions..

After driving 250 miles to look at a metal shaper covered in rust, we learned our lesson.

 The guy was an idiot.. welding instructor..

 Had a contract to build up teeth or hammers for a chipper.. hardface & machine.....then beat the crap out of a fairly nice #1 horizontal mill.. little one.. We pointed out that if he cleaned up the RUSTY shaper he could do that job 4 times as fast for very little investment and never wear out the machine.. but no.. he insisted on killing a nice little machine.. home shop guys would have paid real healthy bucks for that mill..

 A real nice touch was the fairly good 16 in South Bend under a roof but with open walls.. He  had a box of tooling on the top of the lathe, the spare chuck jaws had BRIGHT ORANGE DROPS OF LIQUID RUST on them...

man what an idiot...

[goon 1492]

Man now all we need is some one to start talking about back lash.......lol

[754]

get a lathe with quick-change box..

 I love my metric & standard (without gear-swapping) box,  on my 16 inch lathe...

[Artfrombama]

Recently acquired a Bridgeport mill (kit form) HERE

Learn the basics, speeds and feeds, setting a machine up, how to sharpen tool bits (carbide and HSS), basic trig, etc...
A few hours of instruction will save you hours of frustration and $$$ in tool breakage.

I've been in machine shop most of my life and am still fascinated with it.

[rhinoracer]

If buying a used lathe take a dial gauge with a mag base with you. Turn a piece of metal, turn it around and grab it from the machined surface and check the runout with your dial gauge.

A mini lathe or a bench lathe will not turn large diameters even if it has the swing for it.

If you plan to do any machining of CrMo, O1, D2, etc. get yourself a larger unit.

Having a lathe is addicting, I bought one cause it was cheaper than paying to make the shafts I needed for a scissor lift figuring I'd sell it afterwards for an actual profit but I haven't been able to get rid of it, there's always some part that needs to be fabbed.