Topic: Question about fairings and stability at freeway speeds.

[manjisann]

I am wondering if a quarter type fairing would add any sort of stability at freeway speeds. I have a CB500 and when I get to about 55 and up the wind resistance against my rather large body is a little unnerving to me. I admit I haven't had much chance to ride those speeds often, but I am wondering if a quarter fairing with matching windshield would really make a noticeable difference with that? I am trying to keep the bike sporty looking, not the cruiser or tourer style.

Thanks,

Brandon

[333]

Depending on the shape and angle, you should notice most of the air deflected off your body, maybe not so much the upper body.  You didn't elaborate on your issues with stability, but you shouldn't have any problem there.

I put a full touring fairing on a CB550K once, and was surprised at how at highway speeds, the wind actually came from behind and pushed me forward!

[manjisann]

I put a full touring fairing on a CB550K once, and was surprised at how at highway speeds, the wind actually came from behind and pushed me forward!

I think I may have read a reply you posted once to this effect.

I think the stability issue is mainly with the wind catching me and causing me to move around. I just wonder if a quarter fairing with a windshield would move the air up enough to lower the air that hits me. I realize it isn't going to do a whole lot. I will have to find a pic of the type of fairing I am thinking of.

Thanks,

Brandon

[manjisann]

I am thinking something similar to this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-KZ200-KZ305-KZ400-KZ440-KZ550-NEW-CAFE-FAIRING_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270291791734QQitemZ270291791734QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Thanks,

Brandon

[Soos]

I ran a plastic 1/2(?) fairing for a while last fall and it had it's benefits.
The top of the plastic windshield came up to about mid helmet.

I didn't like the looks, but at 50+mph it felt as if the bike was more stable in side winds and such.
At 65+ passing big rigs I noticed the air blast when passing was much less influential on my lane position.
And the air from the back with a fairing, yeah noticed that too.


My father in laws 550 yamaha has a full fairing(off a KZ1000), and it is even more noticeable.
His bike before the fairing would move half a lane with strong gusts, but he barely notices them at highway speeds with the full fairing on there.


I like the effects, and hate the looks of them on my bike.
But have yet to try a 1/4 or 1/2 fairing.


l8r

[goon 1492]

The kind in that ebay listing is also listed in JCwhitney, I have been eyeballing their windsheilds but don't have the cash flow yet.....

[MCRider]

I am wondering if a quarter type fairing would add any sort of stability at freeway speeds. I have a CB500 and when I get to about 55 and up the wind resistance against my rather large body is a little unnerving to me. I admit I haven't had much chance to ride those speeds often, but I am wondering if a quarter fairing with matching windshield would really make a noticeable difference with that? I am trying to keep the bike sporty looking, not the cruiser or tourer style.

Thanks,

Brandon

I have one of these "F" series (top left) on my 650Hawk. I've had many shields this one actually does something and looks sporty. It mounts to the headlight, so there are no brackets on the handlebars. I really like it, took a 700mile round trip to Omaha. At nearly top end speeds it was stable and it keeps the wind off.
http://www.nationalcycle.com/catalogue/FSeries.shtml

Scroll down. I have the short "F-15". The tall one looks interesting too.

[MRieck]

 Quarter fairings can cause instability at high speeds. The Yamaha Seca 900 is an excellent exampe and that was with a factory developed fairing. My bike gets funky at about 105 or so.

[mlinder]

What Mike said.

The mid 70's BMW r90s is also a prime example. Came stock with a quarter fairing that acted like a sail in crosswinds, pulling the bike in whatever direction the wind was blowing.

[manjisann]

Posted by: mlinder 
Insert Quote
What Mike said.

The mid 70's BMW r90s is also a prime example. Came stock with a quarter fairing that acted like a sail in crosswinds, pulling the bike in whatever direction the wind was blowing. 
Posted on: Today at 08:43:18 amPosted by: MRieck 
Insert Quote
 Quarter fairings can cause instability at high speeds. The Yamaha Seca 900 is an excellent exampe and that was with a factory developed fairing. My bike gets funky at about 105 or so.

Sooo, if I am not trying to set any speed records, I should be fine??
Seriously though, what about a windshield like what MCRider1 has posted? Would just the F-15 or F-16 style shield be considered a fairing?

I doubt very seriously I will ever be pushing over 80 (seeing as how 60 makes me nervous right now  ) I installed slightly lower bars on my bike and I am trying to keep a sporty look, so 3/4 and full fairings don't seem like they would fit with the over all feel I am going for.  At the same time, I definitely don't want to install something that is going to make it more unstable. Thanks again for everyones input!

Brandon

[mlinder]

I think that the way the r90s people combatted the issue was by installing a quarter fairing that was not connected to the forks/trippletree/handbars/etc

It was mounted to the frame, with the headlight ears removed and the headlight mounted to the fairing.

This made it so that wind gusts wouldnt pull the handlebar to the left or right, making things much more stable.

The issue I was talking about with a quarterfairing that turns with the handlbars, your speed doesnt matter that much. The speed of the crosswind does.

[MCRider]

Posted by: mlinder 
Insert Quote
What Mike said.

The mid 70's BMW r90s is also a prime example. Came stock with a quarter fairing that acted like a sail in crosswinds, pulling the bike in whatever direction the wind was blowing. 
Posted on: Today at 08:43:18 amPosted by: MRieck 
Insert Quote
 Quarter fairings can cause instability at high speeds. The Yamaha Seca 900 is an excellent exampe and that was with a factory developed fairing. My bike gets funky at about 105 or so.

Sooo, if I am not trying to set any speed records, I should be fine??
Seriously though, what about a windshield like what MCRider1 has posted? Would just the F-15 or F-16 style shield be considered a fairing?

I doubt very seriously I will ever be pushing over 80 (seeing as how 60 makes me nervous right now  ) I installed slightly lower bars on my bike and I am trying to keep a sporty look, so 3/4 and full fairings don't seem like they would fit with the over all feel I am going for.  At the same time, I definitely don't want to install something that is going to make it more unstable. Thanks again for everyones input!

Brandon

What everyone is saying here is true. A fairing mounted to the handlebars "presents" a barrier to side winds that your steering has to react to. A fairing mounted to the frame, while it still "presents' To the sidewind, has the weight of the bike behind it for stability.

The shield like the F15 while still mounted to the steering, presents very little to the sidewind. But it smoothes out the headwinds nicelty due to its design. And may actually add a little stability by loading the front suspension from the front, but not being affected (so much) from the side.

But its all trial and error, case by case. I have many windshields hanging on my wall in my shop. The F15 is the best I've ever tried. My FJR is fully faired, presents like a sail to sidewinds, but because of its frontal design and being a frame mount, is very stable.

[Alan F.]

I have one of these "F" series (top left) on my 650Hawk. I've had many shields this one actually does something and looks sporty. It mounts to the headlight, so there are no brackets on the handlebars. I really like it, took a 700mile round trip to Omaha. At nearly top end speeds it was stable and it keeps the wind off.
http://www.nationalcycle.com/catalogue/FSeries.shtml

Scroll down. I have the short "F-15". The tall one looks interesting too.

I have the tall F-16 on my 750 Nighthawk, and will likely put one on my K3 when it's ready for the road.  I got tired of the way it flapped and bobbed in the wind and over bumps with just the two headlight bolts to hold it, so after a little research I made some crude but effective stays that clamp to the forks below the top triple and extend to the top right and left corners of the windscreen.  Using some aluminum barstock, like 1/8" X 1/2" I formed a clamp to mount around the fork tube and ran a length up to the corners of the windscreen and secured them to the screen with a rubber washer, a stainless screw and stainless locknut.  With this four point mount setup it's stable over the bumps and won't bob in the wind.  It even adds quite a bit of stability on the highway.  I have it tipped rather steeply foreward and the amount of wind it keeps off is considerable in an upright seating position, but on the highway I can tuck well behind it and ride in comfort.  In a crosswind it does react, but with the stays clamped to the forks it doesn't affect the steering much at all.  I used to have a habit of checking the weather forecast and concentrating on the windspeed numbers, but now with the windscreen on I don't shy away from riding in winds as high as 35mph.

[MCRider]

I have one of these "F" series (top left) on my 650Hawk. I've had many shields this one actually does something and looks sporty. It mounts to the headlight, so there are no brackets on the handlebars. I really like it, took a 700mile round trip to Omaha. At nearly top end speeds it was stable and it keeps the wind off.
http://www.nationalcycle.com/catalogue/FSeries.shtml

Scroll down. I have the short "F-15". The tall one looks interesting too.

I have the tall F-16 on my 750 Nighthawk, and will likely put one on my K3 when it's ready for the road.  I got tired of the way it flapped and bobbed in the wind and over bumps with just the two headlight bolts to hold it, so after a little research I made some crude but effective stays that clamp to the forks below the top triple and extend to the top right and left corners of the windscreen.  Using some aluminum barstock, like 1/8" X 1/2" I formed a clamp to mount around the fork tube and ran a length up to the corners of the windscreen and secured them to the screen with a rubber washer, a stainless screw and stainless locknut.  With this four point mount setup it's stable over the bumps and won't bob in the wind.  It even adds quite a bit of stability on the highway.  I have it tipped rather steeply foreward and the amount of wind it keeps off is considerable in an upright seating position, but on the highway I can tuck well behind it and ride in comfort.  In a crosswind it does react, but with the stays clamped to the forks it doesn't affect the steering much at all.  I used to have a habit of checking the weather forecast and concentrating on the windspeed numbers, but now with the windscreen on I don't shy away from riding in winds as high as 35mph.

Good to hear! I can see where the tall one would overpower the headlight mounting system. As mentioned I have the short F15 and it is totally solid with the 2 bolt headlight system. I get wind at helmet level but not below my shoulders, which is how I like it. The wind at helmet level is "clean" and doesn't buffet my head.

[manjisann]

Alan F, that sounds interesting, would you mind getting some pictures of your rig?

Thanks,

Brandon

[manjisann]

MCRider1 you say you have the one that is top left, but all the pics I see are on the right side. Do you mean the one that is bottom right on the red suzuki? I don't mind wind on my helmet since it is full faced and I need some breeze to keep in comfortable.

Thanks,

Brandon

[MCRider]

MCRider1 you say you have the one that is top left, but all the pics I see are on the right side. Do you mean the one that is bottom right on the red suzuki? I don't mind wind on my helmet since it is full faced and I need some breeze to keep in comfortable.

Thanks,

Brandon

When the link first opens, all four are in a square of 4 pictures in black and white. The F-15 is top left. But as you scroll down it is the bottom one on the Red Suzuki, which is the better picture.

[manjisann]

Ahhh, thank you for the clarification. I am seriously considering getting this one, I like the profile. Now I just need to come up with the fundage...

Thanks

Brandon

[Alan F.]

Yup, I'll try to get some pics on here for you.

[Hush]

I'm looking for a suitable one to fit to my police bike and the old time cops who rode these 650's tell me the mounting on the handlbars actually made the whole bike unstable at any speed.
I like the look of the Harley fork mounted ones and i can get one in NZ for $100 so well within the budget.
Farings and screens are an interesting topic, you don't know how a bike will react to the fitting until you actually ride with it so it's a lot of suck and see.

[manjisann]

Fairings and screens are an interesting topic, you don't know how a bike will react to the fitting until you actually ride with it so it's a lot of suck and see.

I'm sure there is a lot of truth to this. But, I think a lot can be gained from other peoples experiences  . And this way I have a better starting point than just guessing. I have decided not to put my bike up for the winter, but to ride it when the weather permits, so I think a decent windshield is going to be even more important. Thankfully the F series ones are only about $100 or less, so they are within budget,  just gotta raise the funding.

Kinda on the topic of fairings, my bike has Gators on it. If I decide I need to brace it against the forks as Alan says, I'm guessing I will need to remove the gators. Can I just put dust covers on my forks at that point?

Thanks,

Brandon

[MCRider]

Fairings and screens are an interesting topic, you don't know how a bike will react to the fitting until you actually ride with it so it's a lot of suck and see.

I'm sure there is a lot of truth to this. But, I think a lot can be gained from other peoples experiences  . And this way I have a better starting point than just guessing. I have decided not to put my bike up for the winter, but to ride it when the weather permits, so I think a decent windshield is going to be even more important. Thankfully the F series ones are only about $100 or less, so they are within budget,  just gotta raise the funding.

Kinda on the topic of fairings, my bike has Gators on it. If I decide I need to brace it against the forks as Alan says, I'm guessing I will need to remove the gators. Can I just put dust covers on my forks at that point?

Thanks,

Brandon

I think you'll like the F. I know your on a budget, but you may put these on your wish list too. They are hand deflectors that mount to the mirror bolt, easy on, easy off.  http://www.nationalcycle.com/catalogue/CoolWeather.shtml  They are in the picture but scroll to the bottom for details. Together with the F shield, you get great cool weather coverage. Because of the way they mount, I can use the same ones on all my bikes, even the FJR.

AS far as the gators, yes you can replace them with dirt bike style dust covers. Or dust covers from the F series of your bike. In my experience you can turn the dust covers upside down and hook them on to the bottom of your fork ears to make it cosmetically complete. There will be some raw steel showing of your fork tubes, near the triple tree, they are not chromed all the way up. Sand it down nicely and spray with some "chrome paint"and no one will ever know.

[manjisann]

I know your on a budget

Yeah, but lets face it, if the bike "needs it" it'll get it 

In my experience you can turn the dust covers upside down and hook them on to the bottom of your fork ears to make it cosmetically complete. There will be some raw steel showing of your fork tubes, near the triple tree, they are not chromed all the way up. Sand it down nicely and spray with some "chrome paint"and no one will ever know.

Sweet advice, thanks! I know a lot of bikes use dust covers, but I have always wondered about rust eventually becoming a problem on the part of the fork tube where it travels through the oil seal. Does that ever become a problem?

Thanks,

Brandon

[MCRider]

SNIP

Sweet advice, thanks! I know a lot of bikes use dust covers, but I have always wondered about rust eventually becoming a problem on the part of the fork tube where it travels through the oil seal. Does that ever become a problem?

Thanks,

Brandon

No, not there, where it has industrial chrome going through the seal. (Unless its been molested) That lasts forever. Just look at all the "F" models, later "K" models, dirt bikes and all modern sport bikes. They all have naked tubes. But on the part of the tube that's not chromed, past the maximum compression of the fork, near the lower triple tree.

[manjisann]

past the maximum compression of the fork, near the lower triple tree.

Ok, I know exactly where you are talking about. Wonder why they didn't just chrome the entire thing. Oh well.

Thanks

Brandon

[MCRider]

past the maximum compression of the fork, near the lower triple tree.

Ok, I know exactly where you are talking about. Wonder why they didn't just chrome the entire thing. Oh well.

Thanks

Brandon

On the "f"s they did. But on the "K"s because of the alligator boot they didn't need to. Who would ever want to take that boot off anyways. 

[mateo tomas]

actually, what you need is this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories__Jacwal-Superwedge-FAIRING-CAFE-CUSTOM-DUSTBIN_W0QQitemZ200269783514QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadiZ2863QQddiZ2811QQadnZMotorcycleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotorcycles_Parts_Accessories?hash=item200269783514&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A543%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

 

[manjisann]

The Jacwal fairing is a 2 peice fairing. The one on ebay is missing the top handlebar mounted peice and is very hard to find. Like shown on this bike. They aint the prettiest fairing.
 
http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~bcd/Images/750ltd5.jpg

A bit before my time, but I'm thinking it looks like Flash Gordon!! 

[gregnsan]

I've had pretty good luck with my Shoei FM-2 Fairing on my CB750, I got the taller windshield on it and it sure is nice to ride behind. I had a CB550 years ago with a Shoei FM-2 on it with the lower windshield and I really liked it, it took the wind off my chest and I thought it made the bike look racy.

[Alan F.]

Alan F, that sounds interesting, would you mind getting some pictures of your rig?

Thanks,

Brandon

Sorry for taking so long to get some pics for you, Here's my 92 NH'CB750" with a national cycle F-16 Tall Touring model and the struts or stays that I'd made for it.  It's all held together with stainless hardware and there are black rubber washers between the stays and the shield.  I've padded between the clamps and the fork tubes with a chunk of inner tube to avoid any scratching.

[manjisann]

Alan, thanks a ton for the pics!! That looks really nice, and well thought out. Not sure if I will get one as long or if I will go with the shorter F15 model, but either way, I have a better idea of how to brace it if needed.

Thanks

Brandon

[Alan F.]

They do come up used on ebay from time to time, I picked mine up for $59 shipped.  It had a scratch on it and some pits from the PO, after 5 months and about 4500 miles it has a few more.

[manjisann]

Yeah, I think I have seen a few. I'll have to keep my eyes open, I'm on eBay all the time looking for deals 

Thanks,

Brandon

[manjisann]

So the F-16 will fit any bike with a 7" headlight right? I found a decent deal on one on eBay I am gonna try for, but want to make sure I don't have to worry about sizing or anything. It looks identical to the one you have Alan, so looks like I may be using your bracing idea after all 

Thanks,

Brandon

[MCRider]

So the F-16 will fit any bike with a 7" headlight right? I found a decent deal on one on eBay I am gonna try for, but want to make sure I don't have to worry about sizing or anything. It looks identical to the one you have Alan, so looks like I may be using your bracing idea after all 

Thanks,

Brandon

Mine fits fine on both my Hawk GT and CB750 (7" headlights). Its the shorter one, but that shouldn't make a difference as far as mounting. Its a very clever mount design, clean with no clamps on handlebars.

[manjisann]

Its a very clever mount design, clean with no clamps on handlebars.

From the looks of the pic that Alan was kind enough to post, it just mounts on the headlight via the bolts that are already there correct? I believe the one I am looking at is the taller one like what Alan has, so I will probably end up doing something similar to his rig to keep it from flexing and being noisy, if necissary. Gotta win it first though 

Thanks all!

Brandon

[MCRider]

Its a very clever mount design, clean with no clamps on handlebars.

From the looks of the pic that Alan was kind enough to post, it just mounts on the headlight via the bolts that are already there correct? I believe the one I am looking at is the taller one like what Alan has, so I will probably end up doing something similar to his rig to keep it from flexing and being noisy, if necissary. Gotta win it first though 

Thanks all!

Brandon

Yes those are the two attachment points. Then there is an adjustable device that leans against the fork ear on each side, so you can set the angle, and gives it 4 points. Wind pressure is the only thing holding it there. Some applications may have it bolted in place. Very stable nevertheless.

Alan's fix for the taller shield is a good one.

[manjisann]

Well, just placed my bid, so keeping my fingers crossed. I'll try it without Alans fix, just to see how it behaves, and if necissary I will do a variation on the design Alan has.

Thanks again,

Brandon