Author Topic: Note for all CB550F owners. A healthy CB550F will do one hell of a burnout.  (Read 2595 times)

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CTCStrela

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Unfortunately, the tube won't survive the encounter.


That is all ;)

Offline 78 k550

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Sweet.
I was just looking for a seat pin for my 72cb500 and scored me a 76 550F owners manual. :)

Paul
Paul
Littleton, CO

76/77 CB 750F, 
75 GL1000, (AKA GL1-242 NGWClub),
76 GL1000 LTD
84 GL1200 Standard
6 Bultaco's= 42, 49, 121, 152, 167, 188

CTCStrela

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Wish I had taken a photo.

Ah well

Offline Geeto67

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The worst is yet to come - have you checked in with your clutch lately?

These bikes if tuned properly, you will only get one really good burnout before the clutch will start to slip. If you did the burnout in the water your clutch may not be slipping yet but you have cut it's live by more than half (provided you didn't warp or blue any of the steels).   I'd also check the motor sprocket to make sure you didn't hurt anything.

Bikes from the late 80's early 90's will get you about 5-10 burnouts before needing new plates, and a modern sport bike will probably last you about 15. The moral of this story - if you want to do such tom foolery get a new bike that can somewhat handle the abuse, or at least take good pictures since you are probably not going to do another one once you find out what a #$%* it is to change clutch plates after each one. 
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CTCStrela

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The clutch is fine,  the sprockets are good.

 ;)

CTCStrela

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Sweet.
I was just looking for a seat pin for my 72cb500 and scored me a 76 550F owners manual. :)

Paul

Eh?

Offline bistromath

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Well, a burnout's just like accelerating at WOT, right? As far as the clutch can tell you're just in San Francisco going uphill in first gear. =D I can see how it'd be rough on the tire and tube though....
'75 CB550F

CTCStrela

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Bistro,  I think he was referring to the amount of clutch slippage that it could take to break loose the back tire.  In my case, not much.  I didn't even have to open the throttle more than half full and let out the clutch.  Nore did I have it WOT to keep the tire spinning.  He had a decent point about shock loads, though.  Went out and looked at the back tire and suprise.  It wasn't the burnout after all.  Picked up a frikkin screw in the parking lot.  Argh!

Love the name btw, Douglas Adams rocks.

Offline Geeto67

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Well, a burnout's just like accelerating at WOT, right? As far as the clutch can tell you're just in San Francisco going uphill in first gear. =D I can see how it'd be rough on the tire and tube though....

A burnout is NOT like accelerating at wide open throttle. With wide open throttle you deal with rolling resistance (and depend on the friction fo tire on asphalt not overcoming that friction), with a burnout you are dealing with overcoming the friction between a rubber tire and the surface you are spinning it against. If you are doing the burnout in water then that firction is lessend (for a little while) but will increase as the tire heats up. It is also rought on the tire and tube because the tire can shift on the rim while doing the burnout and abrade or pinch the tube causing a leak. Also the excess heat can break down the tube at it's seams. Picking up a screw is also one of the hazards.

Bistro,  I think he was referring to the amount of clutch slippage that it could take to break loose the back tire.  In my case, not much.  I didn't even have to open the throttle more than half full and let out the clutch.  Nore did I have it WOT to keep the tire spinning.  He had a decent point about shock loads, though.  Went out and looked at the back tire and suprise.  It wasn't the burnout after all.  Picked up a frikkin screw in the parking lot.  Argh!

No, I was refering to the amount of damage you have done to your clutch while doing a burnout, not the slippage to the clutch to get ti started. Unless you have your clutch exposed during the bunout you have no idea how much your clutch is slipping during the burnout - and beleve me it was probably slipping at least a little. The only clutches that don't slip even a little while doing burnouts or hard launches are lockup clutches used in drag racing (not suitable for the street). Pull the clutch and physically take a look at the fibers and the plates. Even with you "babying" it through the burnout you have probably halved the life of your clutch. So even while it feels normal now you won't get the longevity out of it that you would if you just took care of it under normal use. It probably won't survive another burnout, so if you do a second make sure you already have the parts and a camera handy. RPMs are what damage clutches so if you kept it low you probably lessened the damage.

These bikes weren't desinged to take the hooliganism like modern bikes. While stone reliable, the stock pieces can take those batings but probably only once or twice without breakge. You want to wheelie, stoppie, do burnouts, or donuts get a bike that was built to take that kind of abuse. I've done plenty of cb750 and 550 burnouts to know all about the perils of breakage resulting from. The best clutch I ever had was stock plates with barnet springs - lasted a full four months after a heavy burnout before it started slipping at highway speeds.
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CTCStrela

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The bike is waay too heavy to do a wheelie.  I've only done one on it, and that was unintentional.

As far as damage to the clutch...well when it slips, I'll replace it. 

No offense intended, but I doubt it did much to the clutch though. 

If the clutch was so weak that it would slip during a half-throttle burnout, then guess what,  it would have slipped at half throttle steady-state load on the road at the same rpm.  The engine/clutch isn't seeing a difference in rolling resistance/vs. burnout resistance.  It just sees resistance.  If a stock clutch cant hold the motor down to a stall (provided the traction available is great enough that the tire doesn't spin first) from half throttle in first gear (IE total, or 100% of available torque at that throttle setting), then the clutch is bad in the first place.  Anything less than total available torque being seen by the motor means the motor keeps running, the tire keeps turning, which also means that the clutch should not slip at that load and throttle setting, unless it was bad in the first place. It also means that the total amount of torque needed was less than the motor could provide at that throttle setting.  Anyways, load doesn't affect clutch life, unless it exceeds the torque capacity of the clutch. 
Slipping causes abrasion and glazing of clutch material, and possible warpage. So basically, the damage that can/will be caused, is caused during the time period that you are releasing the clutch against a high torque value equation, IE high power from motor against a static torque factor (the stationary tire and it's potential friction), and this period of potential damage ends generally when the tire starts spinning (unless you have gotten the clutch so hot that it glazes and is allready slipping). 

 No tears about it, doesn't really matter to me.  The parts are 60 dollars, and the time I've got.  The bike is a toy/hobby.

Stoppies I'm not even going to attempt.  To much weight, too flexy of a frame/tripple tree.  Assuming the front brake had enough guts to actually do a stoppy (I'm thinking it would either not lock, or just lock the tire before,  not enough modulation there in single piston, solid disk setup). 

 I think I picked up the screw after the burnout, actually.

Edited to add:

On drag tires,  spinning gets the tires hot and increases the traction (friction they can provide).  However,  drag tires or street tires,  what allows you to spin the tire much easier than breaking it loose in a first place, providing you aren't rolling down the road, is this:
The tire gets hot enough to start melting/emulsifying, and while doing that, it produces hot gases.  In effect, these hot gasses (and melted rubbber) produce a lubricant, that in turn allows the tire to spin with less torque needed. Hence once the burnout is started,  less (usually much less) power/torque is needed to continue the burnout, provided you keep the tire inside of the patch you have just created.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 09:43:41 AM by CTCStrela »

Offline Dragman836

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did sombody say burnout?
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Offline TwoTired

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Nooo, I think they typed it. ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Bodi

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Re: huh?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2005, 03:51:43 PM »
This 'burnout" isn't any problem for the clutch. The clutch has to be able to handle the torque of the engine at full power without slipping. Slipping the clutch is what wears it out; either normal slipping when getting moving in first gear (the clutch should last quite a while with this) or careless/abusive slipping. Careless would be doing stuff like holding the bike from rolling back on a slight hill using the clutch rather than the brake. Abusive would be revving up and then "dropping the clutch" trying to do wheelies or whatever. It's abusive because the torque load imposed by dumping the flywheel energy into the clutch is much higher than the design limit of the clutch - anything from rapid wear to sudden catastrophic failure of the clutch will result.