Author Topic: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?  (Read 2268 times)

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fuzzybutt

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any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« on: February 27, 2009, 11:54:05 PM »
i know, i know. i've been here long enough that i should know better than to start an oil thread. but this one is sort of different. i'm nowhere near needing oil but i'm trying to find out as much as possible before the time comes that it runs. the guy i got the titan from and i got some of that "g" oil made from cow parts and ran it in one of his sleds and he said that it seemed to run cleaner and possibly a touch quieter as well. i'm especially wondering about the amsoil 2 stroke injection oil (my titan runs oil injection, not pre-mix) just opions and experiences is all i'm looking for. and dont beat me up TOO badly for the oil thread  ;)

Online bryanj

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 12:37:37 AM »
All we ever used in dealership was Castrol TT, never had a problem.

Honda with the small 50cc bikes insisted we used Honda TT and we discovered that was made by Shell at the time
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 04:48:27 AM »
Jeff,

I don't give advice often, but for since we have the choice in oils today - I take advantage of it.

BelRay Si-7 synthetic in the injection tank used in exact ratio and pump settings as prescribed in your manual and BelRay Gearsaver 80-90 in the transmission. I use it 100% of the time and buy it by the case.
The engine oil is Blue and the transmission is Red. If you find fluid on a part, floor, where ever - you know what and where it came from. the Gearsaver is not thick as the 80-90 would imply, infact it looks a lot like auto transmission fluid. It has the special additives which prevent shearing and wear in the gearcase and it works perfectly with wet clutches.

Don't let anyone convince you that going to synthetic means you can reduce the ratio. A 2-stroke has it's power stroke 133 times a second at 8,000 rpm - the only oil that piston/rings/cylinder sees is the small dilution of oil coming in the fuel or injected mix which is already at a low factory ratio of 50:1 at full throttle. Start playing with that and you will kill it quick. There is no magic synthetic property that allows the oil to stick around on the parts - they are being washed-down with 50x the fuel ratio! I used to be into race outboards and when you take one of the Mercury Racing engines out to play hard- you had to add oil to the fuel tank for some extra measure of lubrication - a factory recommendatio by the way.

Regards,
Gordon
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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 09:04:19 PM »
On a related note, Are the "factory" two-stroke oils sold under the Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki brand all the same oil, just in different containers?

I am gonna get a few quarts of oil for the oil tank of my NS400R, and the PO, (Honda mechanic), said he only used "Honda" brand two-stroke oil in it, (since it's a Honda, I presume), but I can't get it where I am right now, and the only stuff available are the Yammy or Suzy oils.  Good or bad?

As far as the gearbox, the factory manual specifies 10-40 oil in the gearbox, so would running that 80-90 gear oil cause more friction and a slight power loss?

If those two oils are the cat's PJs, I'll use them.  The NS is fairly rare and I want it to last as long as possible.

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 08:36:25 AM »
First, yes - I would trust any of the oils from Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, and Yamaha - absolutely! They are putting millions of dollars of equipment and reputtions on the line, it would be crazy to compromise.

Now, having said that I believe there is "better". Mobil 1 synthetic for example exceeds every car manufactures oil recommendations by a big margin, yet in the 4-balls wear test, RedLine synthetic beat it by more than a 30% wear reduction margin.

I feel about BelRay Si7 and BleRay Gearsaver 80 the same way. I've got a lot invested in my bikes and I will only trust them to my favorite BelRay oils. As mentioned in my first post on the Gearsaver, the lube is red and reminds me of the red automatic transmission fluid. New Corvettes, my Z28 - in fact all ZF manual 5 and 6 speed transmissions use Merkon auto fluids. The Gearsaver is almost identical - except for special additives to work inside a wet clutch system.

My $.02 - everyone has their favorites and it's the hardest thing to debate. I like it and I believe in it. Period.

Gordon
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 08:44:13 AM »
Ah yes, an oil thread. We were overdue.  ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Well I'm convinced.  You're a two-stroke aficionado, so I trust your judgment when it comes to the oil-burners.

When the tank gets low, I'm gonna try that Bel-ray stuff out and at the next service, I'll try the gearbox oil.

Only problem might be finding a place that sells it.

Offline DarkRider

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 12:08:52 PM »
Just going to pick your brain for a sec here Gordon. Sorry for the Hijack fuzzy. Just wondering if there is any Bel-Ray product you would suggest for a 4 stroke that uses 10-40 for both engine and trans. (Basically...CBs VFs and pretty much every modern bike on the road now)
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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 01:14:49 PM »
Ok, I'll just give you my preferences. I don't want to get into 5 more post having to defend my personal choices.

Motul, Motul, and more Motul. I love the stuff. I no longer have the article, but I remember about 2 years a technical, un-biased report came out specific to motorcycle oils. When an internal combustion engine fires, it burns gasoline which has a high concentration of sulfur, it uses atmosphere to get it's oxygen (only 21% of air is oxygen), and it ingest large doses of moisture which condenses inside the engine internals and exhaust where they will remain unless burned off. The resultant mixture is sulfuric acid. Motul was one of the leaders in additive packages that combatted the effects of sulfuric acid by having propietary additives that helped to neutralize the acids that form.

Any and all short rides generate this sulfuric acid becuase the cool engine and low exhaust heat during warm-up generate a lot of condensation with blows by the rings and makes it's way into the oil. It's not an issue on a 2 stroke because each intake charge brings a fresh supply of oil and fuel - every bit a total-loss system. The transmission is also seperate and never gets exposed to the combustion process, so you guesssed it - no sulfur, no condensation = no acid.

The CB's and the XS's and the VF's you mention try to have their cranks, clutch, transmission, and rings all live in that same cozy place -the crankcase.The thing I can never convince many people to try is to spend the $10 or so to put 1 change of synthetic oil in your air-cooled and abused lawnmower for 1 season. The color and quality at the end of the season will have you preaching too. I swear, every lawnmower I have owned in the last 20 years gets a first oil change to Mobil 1. Go out this wekend and crank your $200 Briggs and Stratton, let her warm and drain. You'll likely smell it, it's burnt, it's black, it's way too thick. But, let it drain. Now put in he 1-2 quarts of Mobil 1 10-30 synthetic and run it for the rest of this year. Heck, mine has been in my 9hp Snapper for 2-3 years now and it's almost as clean as the day it was changed - this mower with bagger is used once, sometimes twice a week. In fact, I don't worry about oftern changes because the mower runs long and hard enough to get hot and the moisture is boiled out from any condensation that might have occured. Do that $10 test, then come back and argue. You'll put it in everything you own. The key to remember is that the combustion chamber walls get up to 1,400 degrees. Conventional oil splashing up on the cylinder walls and under the piston burns and smokes at just over 300 degrees. When the oi burns, it not only causes varnish and vapor, it leaves a thicker oil in the pan for the next start-up where the oil pump is going to try and pump it's life-giving juice to vital parts. Combine that with impeded flow, you've got metal-to-metal for the first several seconds of every start-up. Motul, Redline all have a flash-point in the 500 degrees range, they have buffers to help reduce the effects of acid, they flow when cold much better -yes, I have my opinions and preferences.

One last kick in the pants - save the next 6 pill bottles or take a small, clear assortment tray (hardware store variety) and put just a little oil from your favorites in the bottles or compartments. Now take at least one of the synthetics of the same weight and pour into one of the bottles or compartments - the key is to have them all the same shape, quantity, and size - Now, freeze those samples in your freezer overnight. The next day, carefully move the tray or the bottles and see for yourself how slowly/thick the conventionals react when compared to a good synthetic - you'll say to yourself "man I want this synthetic in my oil pump so it gets where it's supposed to be about twice as fast as the conventionals, plus at start-up, I need to be careful and not flog it until oil pressure and a little temp is there to help flow.

Preaching Sunday over. Sorry, you but you did ask :)

Gordon
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 01:20:23 PM by Ilbikes »
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Offline DarkRider

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2009, 04:54:44 PM »
Yes yes i did ask. The only worry with any of these bikes is the wet clutch in them. As long as Motul has a formulation thats friendly with the wet clutch im happy.
'84 Chevy C10
'73 MGB Roadster
'69 Ford F250

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Quote from: heffay
so, you say just tie myself on with this... and steer w/ this?   ;D ;D  ok.  where's my goggles?   8)

Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2009, 05:37:37 PM »
They are motorcycle specific. I'll come back in later tonight and post the ratings. I'm headed into my shop shortly and will pick-up one of the bottles and then post. You can get the same oil at your Kawasaki dealer - Motul makes the oils for the Kawasaki brand - or they did, but typically I can have Motul shipped off the internet for about $7 a quart. The dealership will charge more.

Gordon
Kaws, Hondas, Yamahas, and Suzukis - especially Kaws

fuzzybutt

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Re: any 2 stroke owners ever run amsoil injection oil?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 08:06:42 PM »
well gordon you have given me some food for thought. not that i'm going to be worrying anytime soon about what oil i'll use in the titan.  :D