Author Topic: Defeated - I have to walk away - UPDATE & PICS (Read 3155 times)

Johnie · « **on:** May 04, 2009, 11:22:10 AM »

So this K1 restore was running great for a week with clean carbs and new intake/exhaust rubbers. But I could tell the 1/8th inch drill bit bench sync could use some tweaking with the Morgan. It ran perfect above 30MPH and not a miss, but had a little low back firing below 25 and at idle. I figured this would be a lot easier than the 4 cable system on my KO. Fired it up with the stock air box in place. Well, I messed something up during the sync and it got running to fast and I could not back it down. So I decided I would bench sync it again to the 1/8th inch drill bit and start over the next day. Fired it back up with the OEM air box in place and was running way high at 2,000+ with the idle screw not even in contact. Then I noticed gas pouring out of #3. Gas was even squirting out of the pin hole which points to the air box. I now ordered 4 new carb kits to replace the marked up needle valve on #3. What has me stumped is: will gas pouring out of #3 cause the high RPM's even though I bench synced it a second time to how it was before I hooked up the Morgan? It should idle like it did before I touched it, right? So I have to walk away dejected and on a downer right now. Wish I could afford to fly TT out here to straighten this out. I just feel like I have had enough right now...thanks for any tips or ideas.

kghost · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:24:51 AM »

Sounds like the bowl overflowing didn't help things.

1/8 might be a bit big depending on which side you synced on.

On the cutout side yeah maybe...but on the flush side no.

I'd recommend a smaller bit

Johnie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:31:50 AM »

I synced on the cutout side facing the air box. I used the 1/8th drill bit as I got that off the FAQ section. I will try 1/16th next.

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:32:46 AM »

Same thing happened to me and FBomb last week with his '77 F...revved up past 2500 with zero throttle applied all by its self.....one bowl was over-filling and gas welling in the carb throat ....it will get sucked in and the motor will rev by itself...!we fixed the float valve sticking and all was back to normal .....

Magpie · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:37:46 AM »

I also had a problem with fuel flowing out of the overflows. It turns out the new carb kit needles and seats weren't working/sealing properly. I put my old ones back in and they worked fine. The strange thing is they didn't overflow at the same time but days apart.
Hope this helps.
Cliff.

ev0lve · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:42:55 AM »

Made a note to myself when the first bench sync I did had the bike running at 5000rpm.

"seems that either of the methods above work fine IF you adjust the idle screw properly while setting the adjusters"

Maybe the same issue?

Thought it didn't matter much about the 1/8th 1/16th thing just as long as they're reasonably all the same.

Johnie · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:53:54 AM »

Looking at the cutouts on the carbs 1/16th is to small and won't even hit the slides. So I think I will try the 7/64th drill bit. Although, the 1/8th worked the first time before I started to mess with it using my Morgan.

TwoTired · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:55:01 AM »

The problem with the drill bit method is that it allows the adjustments to be skewed so as to not let the slides close fully. This, in turn, makes the idle setting too high, and the main idle adjustment ineffective.

With the carbs on the bench, I prefer to use light as a gauge for setting the equal positions of the slides. Make sure you can adjust each slide until the light >just< shuts off when making the adjustment. You may have to back the idle knob way off to do this. This is plenty close to get the bike running, and then do the vacuum sync.

You can still correct this after the carbs are on the bike. But, it takes a radical change on one to get the slide down it's travel way farther, and then add equal amounts of adjustment on the others to get them in the vicinity, then proceed with the vacuum sync at a reasonable idle RPM.

Overflowing carbs is a float system issue, adjustment or foreign matter causes, usually. Some carbs can hole the float and cause them to sink.

Cheers,

ron.cieri.313 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:12:47 PM »

Just to reinforce the float issue thing...my #3 carb starting over flowing after rejetting at night...didn't figure out the problem till am light that i had screwed up the float when putting the lower bowl...straightened out the twisted float arm and reset height...works fine.

WHALEMAN · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:01:38 PM »

The 1/8" drill bit works fine, but you must preload the system with the idle adjustment screw with a turn or two preload. That way you can move them all down after you get it started. Dan

Patrick · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:48:51 PM »

Back the adjusters on top of the carbs all the way out until the lock nut is barely holding on. This should close the slides completely. Turn in the throttle adjuster until you have some space under the slides. Bench synch with the 1/8 drill bit, screwing the adjusters in as little as possible. Tighten lock nuts. That should leave enough room to allow you to back off the throttle adjuster until the slides fully close. Then you can control the idle with adjuster.

Patrick

bryanj · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:04:51 PM »

Use the smallest drill bit you got ON THE ENGINE SIDE OF THE CARBS!!!!

Johnie · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:08:16 PM »

Quote from: bryanj on May 04, 2009, 05:04:51 PM

Use the smallest drill bit you got ON THE ENGINE SIDE OF THE CARBS!!!!

Yah, I think I will pull them off when the kits come and start over. I sort of like TT's idea about the light. The smallest drill bit is good too. I will use the engine side of the carbs. Do you generally sync at the 1000 RPM which is what the service manual says?

bryanj · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:36:27 PM »

yup 1-2,000 and check at 4-5

torrinh · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:46:41 PM »

use a paper clip that has been unbent to sync the carbs on the engine side of the bank. Set the slides to this, then adjust the idle screw till the bike runs, warm it up to op. temp. and then reset the idle. Easy-peasy

Johnie · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:51:51 PM »

Quote from: torrinh on May 04, 2009, 05:46:41 PM

use a paper clip that has been unbent to sync the carbs on the engine side of the bank. Set the slides to this, then adjust the idle screw till the bike runs, warm it up to op. temp. and then reset the idle. Easy-peasy

Yes, another excellent idea. Appears there are a few good ways to bench sync.

markb · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:27:09 AM »

Johnie,
After the advice you gave me the other day about syncing the carbs (which did the trick) I wish I could return the favor but it looks like everyone has you covered. Good luck and keep us posted.
Mark

Johnie · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:14:05 PM »

Kits are here. Going to pull the carbs now and put in the new guts...wish me luck. Thanks so much for all the excellent advise guys!!!

Johnny5 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:27:43 PM »

Good luck, man. Gremlins arent fun after midnight.

Johnie · « **Reply #19 on:** May 06, 2009, 02:00:03 PM »

Good news...I ended up rebuilding the carbs with new float seats and needle valves, new air screws and needle set to the 3rd groove. Also new slow idle jets. My kit did not have the long main jets. Put it all together with your bench sync ideas. Put the carbs back on the bike and turned on the gas...what...#4 puking fuel again. What the heck??? After close inspection I found both brass floats in #4 were leaking. The dang float in #4 was sinking to the bottom. Can you imagine trying to sync with my Morgan with that going on last Sunday??? So I put it all together and it fired right up. Hardly had to use much choke. Ran it 10 miles and what a difference from the problems I had on Sunday night. I think I should still check it with the Morgan, but after what happened Sunday night I am just going to enjoy it for a while. Then when the mood hits me I will Morgan the beast. Once again, thanks for all your advise. You gents are for sure "wise guys."

Johnie · « **Reply #20 on:** May 06, 2009, 03:19:52 PM »

So took it out again for another test ride. I do have an occasional back fire between 1st and 2nd gear. Runs strong when giving it gas, but around 40MPH at cruising it seems to be starving for gas a bit. If I get on the throttle it does not miss a beat. Only at cruising do I have the miss. With new jets and meticulous checking on the float height (26mm) I am thinking the Morgan is needed for a more accurate check of the sync. Sound like I am on the right track??? Air screws are 1 turn out.

Johnie · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2009, 01:53:54 PM »

Last update...took it out and worked with the air screws. When I first got the bike the PO had all 4 air screws 2 turns out. The plugs were black as the ace of spades when I removed them. I started at 1 turn out and then went to 1 1/4 & 1 1/2. Worse...so I brought them all back to 3/4 and what a huge difference for the better. No more backfiring, no more hesistation, just runs smooth as a 750 should. So now it is time to enjoy this K1. Next winter OEM gold paint will be done. Thanks again...

Magpie · « **Reply #22 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:52:48 PM »

Need pictures of your success, the avatar looks good but too small for my old eyes.

Cliff.

Johnie · « **Reply #23 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:35:45 PM »

Quote from: Magpie on May 07, 2009, 03:52:48 PM

Need pictures of your success, the avatar looks good but too small for my old eyes.
Cliff.

Thanks...here are a few pics. Click the pic to enlarge.

hoodellyhoo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 07, 2009, 05:06:20 PM »

lookin good there John

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Author Topic: Defeated - I have to walk away - UPDATE & PICS (Read 3155 times)

WHALEMAN