Author Topic: Regulator / Rectifier build ? (Read 16514 times)

Paul · « **on:** April 18, 2005, 08:58:49 AM »

This is actually for a friends Ducati, but I'm sure the principal is the same.
OK. so how does one make a regulator / rectifier combined. I've already installed a new bridge rectifier with heat sink on my CB500 but the regulator was ok so no need to go there. Now....instead of paying £120 ish for a combined unit I want to make one (as part of a learning excersise aswell.) So I've got the heat sink £6.00 and the rectifier £5.00 and I think I need to wire up a zener diode to restrict the DC output from the rectifier down to 14V ish, but thats as far as I know...........so ....who's up for it? (oh ya ..and if one could limit the components to actual component descriptions as opposed to "Radio Shack" parts as ....we don't have them over here. but we do have Newark, Radionics, Farnell etc).. Awaiting your replies with enthusiasm.

SteveD CB500F · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2005, 09:49:44 AM »

Frank Cooper built loads of stuff for his 500/4.

Check his site: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/frank.cooper1/frameset.html

He describes how he built a rectifier and electronic regulator

sniknuoy49 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2005, 06:34:15 PM »

how can i get hold of him

sniknuoy49 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2005, 06:55:51 PM »

need to know what the watts are on the resistors and the select on test switch and a part no. on the led.
a part description and no. for 5v1 need to know how many watts, volts and ohms on all the caponents.
i will be very thank full please help

SteveD CB500F · « **Reply #4 on:** May 18, 2005, 01:24:50 AM »

I've never met the guy! He lives in the same town and we passed on the road one morning, did a double take (as you do when another sohc4 passes on the other side) and "met" on the old site.

I've only ever emailed him and will dig out his address when I get home later.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2005, 03:04:00 AM »

How much does a new regulator or rectifier cost? I'm electronic engineer for a living and I could be making money with this. For a rectifier you need 6 high power diodes and a heat sink. For a regulator, a high power transistor, a heat sink, a zener, a resistor and an electrolytic capacitor.

A zener diode, when applied reverse voltage, will set the leads voltage to the preset voltage. The remaining will be dissipated as heat, so the zener needs a heat sink and will always work under stress. Triumph motorcycles used to have the rectifier under the headlight.

Now put a resistor in series with the zener. The zener will still set the voltage across its leads, but the resistor will eat the remaining voltage. There is no need for a heat sink. Apply the voltage to a high power transistor in emitter-follower configuration. It's ouput will "follow" the voltage in its base. The transistor is built to undergo high current and temperature, so it will last longer and will be safer. And everything will be solid state.

Raul

sniknuoy49 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2005, 04:07:47 AM »

can you tell me how much watts you would use on that schrematics about . i have most everything not sure of how big to use i need to know watts ohms and volts all help is welcomed

CB500_k2 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2005, 05:12:00 PM »

I am planning to make this electronic regulator. The entire system up to the power transistor which controls the stator coil current is very low power. Half watt resistors should be more than sufficient. The zener diode can also be low power. I think almost any 5.1 volt device would be fine. Selection of the S.O.T. resistor (R10) may be best done with a trimmer variable resistor. I think a 100K ohm device would be adequate. My intention is to put a trimmer pot of 1K ohms in series with a 1k ohm resistor as a substitute for R8 and R10 in the design of Mr. Cooper.

jbailey · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2005, 07:50:01 PM »

I installed an electronic voltage regulator on my 75 550. It is working great. I get a steady 14.2 volts now from about 1800 RPM up. The old VR was all over the place.

What I did was to use a KEM KVR502 that I got from JC Whitney for $10. It is originally for a 1976 Porsche 911 and fits many other cars of the era. There are three wires which connect directly to the three from the old VR, however the colors are different. I can look and see the colors if you are interested. You can also buy the part locally from Autozone for $29. It is a Wells VR650. Same part, different manufacturer. I got it from Whitney because I was ordering other stuff and it was way cheaper than from a local vendor. Actually, if you order the part and pay the shipping it is still cheaper than local.

Quail "Owner of the comfortable k8" · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2005, 08:46:10 PM »

This sounds good, if you get time could you take some photos and show us what you did. These old electronics are scarey on the road.

Terry

Dennis · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2005, 10:14:37 PM »

Quote

Apply the voltage to a high power transistor in emitter-follower configuration. It's ouput will "follow" the voltage in its base. The transistor is built to undergo high current and temperature, so it will last longer and will be safer.

Raul,
I was able to follow along for most of your description of the electronic voltage regulator but you lost me on the last part quoted above. This sounds like just the sort of regulator that I need for my Yamaha RZ, which I think you know as the RD350YPVS, with a permanent magnet alternator.

It sounds pretty straight forward. Any chance that you could sketch this circuit for those of us who would like to try to build one?
If you would prefer to send it direct, my address is: DScia@aol.com
Thanks, Dennis

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2005, 02:51:54 AM »

Dennis, go to my webpage in http://perso.wanadoo.es/camelo4/indexeng.html.

It's a trip computer, but in the schematic, in the upper left corner, you will see the voltage stabilizer section (with a BD140 transistor). You will have to jack up that transistor to withstand higher currents, using it to drive a high power transistor like a 2n3055 or similar in a Darlington configuration, but the basics are the same. Output voltage is always zener voltage + 0.6 volts of the base-emitter union. The transistor acts like an automatic variable resistor, eating up the difference in voltage. You need that the maximum collector-emitter voltage will be high enough, but there is no problem to eat up 4 or 5 volts.

More questions just post again or send me a PM.

Regards

Raul

dusterdude · « **Reply #12 on:** May 23, 2005, 05:40:05 AM »

ok this is interesting,i wonder the difference between the honda alternator and the harley style alternator,you see see h-d doesnt use the external style rectifier and im wondering if they use one at all.any ideas?

Dennis · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2005, 04:00:23 PM »

I don't know how HD builds their alternators so I can't comment on that. All I can say is that if it is really an alternator which I would suspect that it is, there MUST be some rectifiers somewhere.
Just remember that most cars have a diode bridge (rectifier) inside the alternator case. Possibly HD does the same??

sniknuoy49 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2005, 04:18:59 PM »

jbailey could you tell me how you wired it up or a drawing thank you

Dennis · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2005, 08:13:19 PM »

Raul,
Thanks for the link. I tried to look at your page.

Quote

"pagina no encontrada"
Mira en el buscador, a ver si así la encuentras.

So, where is it hiding?

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 24, 2005, 12:51:48 AM »

Oooops, they did it again!!! It's a free web hosting service, but as soon as trafic grows they just shut down the space!!! I'll host it again and will let you know.

Raul

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2005, 01:42:50 AM »

Try this link:

http://perso.wanadoo.es/camelo4/tripcomputer/schematic2.ppt

Raul

mgilvary · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2005, 08:18:55 AM »

Quote from: jbailey on May 22, 2005, 07:50:01 PM

What I did was to use a KEM KVR502 that I got from JC Whitney for $10.

Jbailey,

Have you got a JC Whitney part number? I searched their site, but came up empty handed. Alternatively, could you post a link?

And also, I'd love to hear how you connected it. I have a 75 550 as well, and though I've cleaned and adjusted my old VR, I can't get more than 12.5 - 13 volts out of it.

Thanks.

Dennis · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2005, 10:34:44 PM »

Raul.
Got the schematic this time. I'll draw it, select some components and send it to you before I start to build it. Thanks.

jbailey · « **Reply #20 on:** May 25, 2005, 11:25:52 AM »

The JC Whitney Part Number is KVR502. To find it click on "replacement parts" in the left column. Then search for a 1976 Porsche 911S voltage regulator. Or go to your local parts store and ask for a voltage regulator for a 1976 Porsche 911S.

I've attached a picture of the Voltage regulator and one of it installed.

Wiring is: VR Honda
Black White
Brown Green
Blue Black

I had tomove things around slightly as you will see in the picture, but you will end up with an electronic voltage regulator for about $10-30 and it can easily be replaced at any auto parts store. If you build your own, good luck repairing it on the side of the road.

mgilvary · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2005, 11:55:02 AM »

jbailey:

Thanks for posting that. I just ordered the VR and am looking forward to being able to ride with my headlight on.

jbailey · « **Reply #22 on:** May 25, 2005, 12:29:52 PM »

If you still can't get the full voltage, you may have a bad rectifier. In that case it will do no harm to have the electronic voltage regulator installed, but will need to repair or replace the rectfier. This should be easy to repair or build since it is just six high current diodes.

If you have a problem with the rectifier, let me know. I could probably build you one for a few bucks if you don't want to try it yourself.

Raul CB750K1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2005, 03:14:31 PM »

Being an electronic engineer as I am, if it's 10-30$ I would buy it instead of making one. I rather spend the time riding than tinkering...

Raul

mgilvary · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2005, 04:29:04 PM »

Quote from: jbailey on May 25, 2005, 12:29:52 PM

If you have a problem with the rectifier, let me know. I could probably build you one for a few bucks if you don't want to try it yourself.

You're very kind, sir. I'll plug in the VR when it arrives in a week or so and report back.

jbailey · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2005, 06:44:00 PM »

I got the colors wrong in the above post! I mixed up the BMW harness colors with the VR colors. This VR will work on a BMW also, and probably many other cars, trucks, tractors and bikes that use a switched field charging system.

The correct information is:

Honda    VR    Purpose
White    Green    DF Supplies power to field.
Black    Red    D+ 12V+ from ignition.
Green    Brown    D- Ground.

Sorry for the incorrect information the first time!

mgilvary · « **Reply #26 on:** May 30, 2005, 09:52:06 AM »

Quote from: jbailey on May 29, 2005, 06:44:00 PM

Sorry for the incorrect information the first time!

No sweat. VR hasn't arrived yet, so I haven't had a chance to screw it up. Thanks for the correction.

Paul · « **Reply #27 on:** May 30, 2005, 01:02:04 PM »

I notice various comments for both the rectifier and regulators. My initial problem was on the regulator issue. The rectifiers can be bought from most electronic stores / newark etc. I got mine for around 6 Euros and the heat sink for 4. certainly not worth the effort of building one....just crimp on 5 spades and job's done.

the_genrl · « **Reply #28 on:** May 30, 2005, 08:32:58 PM »

good to see more ees on the board. good thinking Raul CB750K1, that's what i did. just look for the cheapest regulator you can find at jc wittney. i payed $8 each and bought a few. i took off the case and its a very small little part with lots of surface mount stuff, so its smaller than i could ever make.

i think it was for a 66-69 plymouth/dodge/chrysler? kinda a few years ago.

note: harley doesnt put some crazy dc generation machines on their bikes, and never did. its just a 2 phase alt and a full wave rect.

jbailey · « **Reply #29 on:** May 31, 2005, 06:18:16 PM »

Actually you have to be sure the voltage regulator sources the 12V to the field, the other end of which is grounded internally. Chrysler uses a sinking voltage regulator which means the 12V is supplied to the alternator at all times and the voltage regulator provides the ground. Since this is the opposite, it will not work on a Honda.

MotoDave · « **Reply #30 on:** June 01, 2005, 07:17:38 PM »

Check out this site:

http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/vregulators.html

This guys sells replacement electronic voltage regulators and high capacity rectifiers for CB750's (and other bikes.)

Great stuff!

the_genrl · « **Reply #31 on:** June 01, 2005, 09:30:28 PM »

right jbaily, but for 70 and later. in the 60s, chrysler alts were synchro machines (stator and rotor windings) with a rotor (field) winding. so with this setup, like 750s, the regulator actualy regulates the field current, which consequently regulates the output voltage. the replacements for those regulators are all solid state now...and i think that was what i got. actualy, i forget $:-\$ i have them in a garage somewhere and ill have to dig them out.

those big box ones are i think what what you are thinking about. they use the sloppy 2 terminal power transistor sink method.

jbailey · « **Reply #32 on:** June 02, 2005, 07:30:50 PM »

I didn't know anybody had an electronic VR in the '60s! Anyway, whatever part you decide to use will basically work the same as long as you research it and make sure it is sourcing rather than sinking.

I any event it's nice to know that we can upgrade the electronics on our antique bikes rather inexpensively.

The unit from oregonmotorcycleparts.com looks like a nice package for those who don't want to experiment. Looks like he went a step further and made a nice mounting bracket and color coded the wires to match the Honda's.

mgilvary · « **Reply #33 on:** June 03, 2005, 11:39:06 PM »

jbailey,

I received my JC Whitney special VR and installed it this afternoon. Appears to be putting out the proper voltage and keeping my battery juiced. Thanks a ton for that tip -- and for the wiring instructions

Dennis · « **Reply #34 on:** June 04, 2005, 08:52:03 AM »

Harry,
Should this go in the FAQ's?

davidm · « **Reply #35 on:** August 21, 2006, 08:28:49 AM »

Even though this conversation is so old, I thought I'd mention...
I built the rectifier as outlined on Frank Cooper's website and it works like a charm.
I'm happy to be riding my 76 550 again!

SteveD CB500F · « **Reply #36 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:02:55 AM »

Quote from: davidm on August 21, 2006, 08:28:49 AM

Even though this conversation is so old, I thought I'd mention...
I built the rectifier as outlined on Frank Cooper's website and it works like a charm.
I'm happy to be riding my 76 550 again!

That's great David, you should PM him and let him know...

Pinhead · « **Reply #37 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:27:08 AM »

Check the link in my sig. I built one for my 650, but I'm not familiar with the 500/550s charging systems.

dusterdude · « **Reply #38 on:** August 21, 2006, 10:33:02 AM »

I didn't know anybody had an electronic VR in the '60s!....chrysler was the first in 1970.

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Author Topic: Regulator / Rectifier build ? (Read 16514 times)

sniknuoy49

sniknuoy49

sniknuoy49

sniknuoy49

the_genrl

MotoDave

the_genrl

davidm