Author Topic: Main fuse and charging woes. No more fuse pops, AND charging!  (Read 7047 times)

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Offline Sporkfly

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Alright, I've done some searches and I've gone through the electrical on my bike on more than one occasion. I'm just looking for some input on possible causes for my main fuse blowing with what I've done so far. To date:

-Replaced fuse panel, new glass tube style holders (I know, with no more trouble than this I could have installed blade type)

-Replaced connectors, cleaned clip connectors where applicable

-Pinhead's reg/rec setup

Now here's the lead up to what I have now. The other night I went through the headlamp bucket and reorganized the wires back there for less clutter. While I was in there I replaced all the bullet connectors with new (for ease of removal later and in case I needed to troubleshoot). The reason I did this is because I'm not charging.

After finishing up the job, I fired up the bike and monitored my battery. Still not charging like it should. I ran it multiple times while experimenting with using the stock regulator to see if there was any change. The fuse did not blow. Regardless of the no-charge state I decided I wanted to go for a quick jaunt on the bike, about a mile down the road my main fuse blew. I had a few spares, but they weren't rated at stock - a 20 and 30. The bike didn't hesitate to blow both of these within a few seconds, I checked all my connections before putting either of those in the bike and didn't find anything that was grounding (side of the road diagnostics though)

And some more information:

-Field coil resistance: 5.1 ohms

-Stator resistance (I have two, both read out the same so I blame my meter): 1.2 ohms

-Rectifier: Continuity in one direction, none in the other. The continuity resistance is out of hand though, about 1400 ohms so I've called it bad and have a new one on the way.

-Regulator: Since the fuse started blowing I haven't gotten a chance to try the stock unit, I may have damaged the Ford unit at one point as I had the stock unit in until recently and had the Ford unit on the shelf.

And, even though it's in my signature, '77 550
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 02:14:05 PM by Sporkfly »
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2009, 10:56:29 AM »
What were the results of the current and voltage tests with your meter?  Normal?  I feel for you, I'm blowing fuses too.  I have a couple threads going on it...
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2009, 11:12:08 AM »
Voltage test results would be useful I suppose, good point. Admittedly the battery wasn't fully charged, it was at about 12.3 when I first started tinkering.

Starting: 12.30V
Idle: ~12V
Anywhere between 2-5K: ~12.15V give or take a few hundredths.

Mind you those are off the top of my head, but it was similar to this. My main concern right now is the fuse though, as it was giving me no issues while doing the two or three voltage tests I did. The bike was running for about the same amount of time during those test as the short ride (and subsequent push home) I did. I guess what I'm getting at is what are the chances the regulator or rectifier are blowing the fuse, considering I have a new fuse panel and new connections?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 11:15:17 AM by Sporkfly »
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 11:18:47 AM »
I think you should have between 14 and 15 volts at 4000 rpm.  That's a 350F though, may or may not have anything to do with it.  I cleaned my connectors real good at the fuse and battery and am giving it one more chance before I put a buss fuse on it.  I ride it to work and can't afford to be late!  The 350 just has one fuse, so that will be a $5 investment at best.   
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 11:35:45 AM »
Well, I'll be going to get some more fuses. Plan of action: disconnect everything, connect one by one until the fuse blows. I've ruled out the reg. as I disconnected it and my last fuse blew immediately. Would the rectifier cause the main fuse to pop?
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 11:47:53 AM »
If it pops immediately, you may have an easier time hunting.  Mine blows at completely unpredictable times.  The rectifier's purpose is to convert the AC input to DC output.  You can bench test the diodes in it if you have a schematic.  The diodes should conduct one way only.  Not real sure if it will blow a fuse, but electrical components do strange things sometimes.  I attached a picture of what my fuses look like when they blow.  Never the middle, always the side...
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2009, 11:48:10 AM »
Instead of blowing up fuses, put a 12v light bulb in place of your fuse.  The light will not glow or will glow dim under normal circuit load.  It will go bright when you connect in the sort circuit.
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 11:51:10 AM »
FM,

Your issue looks like melting due to poor connection at your clip.  Is there any corrosion in your clip or is is so loose you can pull the fuse out with your fingers?
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2009, 11:54:58 AM »
FM,

Your issue looks like melting due to poor connection at your clip.  Is there any corrosion in your clip or is is so loose you can pull the fuse out with your fingers?

Yes, there was.  I have another thread picturing before/after pictures of my connectors.  The fuse casing is also damaged from all that melting.  It's not real hard to get out of the casing either, no. 
Quote from: 754
Dude is that a tire ? or an O-ring..??

Quote from: inkscars
This is not a pod thread
This is not a #$%* on my vacuum gauges thread
This is a help or GTFO thread.

1973 CB350F
1973 CB350G
1975 CB550K
1983 GL650I
1973 CB750K3 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=92888.0)
1984 Kawasaki KLT-250 (AKA 3 wheeler of death)
1994 Honda TRX300
1999 Honda TRX250

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 12:00:26 PM »
There is a member here that makes replacement fuse boxes, using blade type fuses.  Search for "Higgins Fuse Box" for details.  I have one and don't even think about fuses anymore, though I still carry some!

15-amp Fuses, Don't Leave Home Without some!
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
If you take care of it.
What do you have to do?
Lot’s of things. You’ve been watching me.
Will you show me all of them?
Sure.
Is it hard?
Not if you have the right attitudes. It’s having the right attitudes that’s hard.

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2009, 12:03:25 PM »
Found it, now I need a course of action. I just installed new handlebars and didn't really take that into account, when I switch it over to 'run' from 'off' the fuse blows immediately.
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2009, 12:08:58 PM »
Glad you found the prob.    That fuse that kept blowing has saved your wiring harness...lots of bikes out there where the fuses are BYPASSED ( ugh !).
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2009, 12:30:03 PM »
The entire charging circuit is unfused on the 550, except the black wire feeding the V reg.  That is switched form the Key switch, and the key switch power is from the main fuse.  Of course, the key switch supplies power to the entire bike, sans starter motor, too. The rectifier is not on any fused branch.

If you are instantly blowing a 30 amp fuse, you pretty much have a direct short to power to ground somewhere.

The stock bike draws about 10 amps through the fuse.  This means the bikes resistance is about 1.26 ohms.  30 amps would be  .42 ohm.  If you had a milliohmeter, you could actually measure the resistance, note that it is low, and then keep disconnecting things until the resistance comes up above 1.26 ohms.  Whenever you connect something that puts the ohms below 1.26, you found the circuit branch fault, These are "kind of" advanced techniques/skills for finding circuit faults.  But, it can be done this way without blowing any fuses.

You can also stick a 1 ohm resistor in series with the fuse. It will limit current draw while you poke around with a voltmeter looking for serious voltage loss about the supply distribution.  The biggest loss is where the problem lies.

A good battery will not deplete instantly, nor will it charge instantly.  Takes time for the voltage to change and this is related to the discharge rat and the charge rate.  For example, the starter motor draws 120 amps.  The charging system only supplies about 1-2 amps for battery charging when the RPM is high enough.  (The rest of the power in used by bike components.)  The battery will deplete far faster than it will charge.  So, look for voltage change trends instead of absolute voltages, particularly when troubleshooting with an undercharged battery.
A depleted battery with no load measures about 11.9 V and is in a full charge state with 12.6-12.8V.  Under load, these voltages are lower.

As for rectifier resistance, makes sure your meter supplies enough voltage to fully activate the diodes, when measuring it's conduction resistance.

Cheers,


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline new2novas

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2009, 12:35:08 PM »
my kill switch was shorting to the bars causing that same deal to happen....take off the RH controls and try again
75 cb750F

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes.
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2009, 02:13:07 PM »
And on yet another positive note, she's charging.

In retrospect I suppose I didn't even need to start this thread...
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan

Offline new2novas

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes. No more fuse pops, AND charging!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2009, 04:02:45 PM »
so.....what was the problem
75 cb750F

Offline Sporkfly

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Re: Main fuse and charging woes. No more fuse pops, AND charging!
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2009, 04:14:43 PM »
Couple of wires were toasted behind the chain cover, the wires to the coils were shot (this was the cause for the fuses blowing) and the regulator was fried.
1977 CB550K
1979 GL1000 - Current project, winter '09-'10
1979 CX500
1976 Suzuki GT500 Titan