Topic: Looking to run a Fram Sidemount Oil Filter on my CB --> In need of direction....

[ProTeal55]

Hey ,

In my never ending quest to make my CB more of a Bobber , I have been thinking of running a Fram
Sidemount oil filter setup on my Bike, see pic below.. The late American V-Twin customizer Indian Larry from
NYC was the first "custom" builder to start doing this.

I was thinking of doing this , by placing the Fram sidemount in-line on the return line on the bike. I plan on
keeping the stock filter in the stock location , and doing this for more looks than anything. The cost is not a factor,
as the most expensive part will be the braided lines and AN fittings I will run. This would also act as a
poor-mans oil cooler , with the oil having more time out of the bike , and able to cool off alittle. I had a remote filter setup on my last racecar , and saw a significant temp drop over the filter being in ther stock location. PLUS , I will have more oil on board , which is
always a plus... I will most likely mount the filter on either side of the bike , near where the factory passenger pegs
used to be...

I really don't see this being a big issue , as long as I am sure that their are no kinks or bends in the new lines , and
the new "system" has enough oil to not starve the motor. Which would be easy , by just filling up the new fram filter
before install , just like on a car. Then top off the oil in tank from their..

I guess I am asking , is doing this "appearance" mod worth the damage to my motor ? Will it actually do any damage ? Will the stock pump have enough "balls" to move the oil around the bigger system , with the longer lines and the new added restriction of the Fram filter ?

I have a post going about this topic over at hondachopper.com , but I wanted to post it here as well.  The guys on this board have always
been a big help. The link to the honda chopper topic is ---->http://p196.ezboard.com/fhondachopperfrm4.showMessage?topicID=14643.topic

As usuall , all help is appreciated 

[ProTeal55]

If i run the system as stated above I won't have any oil stravation issues ?

I won't be putting more stress/work on the oil pump ?

Even if I am adding a foot or two more of oil lines to the system ?

Just want to clear up all doubts before I do this to my CB , which I have grown to
love more than I ever thought I would...

[dusterdude]

imo,once the sytem has all the air bled out,it will push and/or pull oil just fine.

[MRieck]

What size lines are going to run...-6 or -8?

[Egil]

You may get an idea  on the road from this link to , Terry in Oz builds Oil Cooler Adaptors:http://members.optusnet.com.au/~sherriffbuck/gallery.html

Egil.

[ProTeal55]

Egil ---> That link you provided did not work. I would assume that doing the sidemount filter would almost be the same
as running an oil cooler. Both have to be ran " in-line" somewhere in the system. If the CB's oil pump can work with a oil cooler ,
it should be able to work with this ....right ....?

MRieck------>
Not sure about what size line I plan on running. Prob. whatever is close to the stock line , which I believe is 1/2 , so
I think that would be 8an off the top of my head...I might run rubber hose at first , to make sure everything works , then go to
braided once all the bugs get worked out...

[Geeto67]

cycle exchange sells a converter for you honda to take an harley or chrome spin-on oil filter without the cover.

http://www.cyclexchange.net/Oil%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

I imagine you could get this adapter and then use an AN fitting on the threads to attach a hose to relocate it somewhere else.

They do have a really cool finned oil cooler for the SOHC hondas that I think looks way better than a relocated oil filter.

BTW, why not just get it over with, can the stock oil tank, get a custom oval one (not a harley tank unless you change the fittings to work with 1/2" inside diameter). and put the spin on filter instead. The remote oil filter is so discovery channel.

Edit: oh and indian larry was not the first "custom" builder to start doing this. This was an old 1970's trick that he just kept doing long after other builders stopped. I have seen several old nails form the 1970's built by guys who had shops in the 1960s and 1970s and those bikes had it. Indian Larry and Billy Lane were the first guys to sho this onthe discovery channel. I bet if you look hard enough you can find a remote filter kit from the 1970s for a cb750 (but you may not like the price). Drag racers did this so they could use spin-on chevy oil filters on the drag bikes and the chopper guys followed suit. They also used them when making turbo kits to allow a splitter in place to feed oil to the turbo.

[ProTeal55]

GeeTo67--->

You posted as I was typing the same thing. If I did the adapter from Cycle Exchange , I could just run the AN lines directly from the adapter---> to the Fram filter ---> then right back to the adapter ! That would allow me to leave the stock lines alone ( even though then need to be repalced ) , and then I won't have two filters ont he bike , just one...

As far as the discovery channel comment , to each his own. I had been running sidemount filters on all my HD based bikes years ago, Indian Larry just made it "mainstream"...

Anyone else have any ideas ??

[Geeto67]

Here's my 2nd idea on how to make this work.

The guys over at Cycle X sell a adapter which allows CB owners to run a screw-on
HD style filter. Why couldn't I get one of these adapters , throw a remote adapter on top of that,
then run the lines to the Fram filter ?

It would go Motor --> Oil filter adapter--> Remote Adapter Plate---> Line to filter---> Fram Sidemount Oil filter ---> Line from filter--> Back to adapter plate---> Back into motor.

If I did it this way , I could leave all the stock oil lines in place , as far as the feed and return lines. Then the Fram would become
the only filter on the bike.

Anyone ?

I believe that is why I posted the cycle ex link. I prefer using AN fittings on oil lines when I can because they get a better seal

[ProTeal55]

Sorry GEETO67 - > We are posting at the same time..

One question ---> If I get the adapter , and run lines directly to it , what about
the middle "shaft" that allows the filter to screw on ?

[Geeto67]

Sorry GEETO67 - > We are posting at the same time..

One question ---> If I get the adapter , and run lines directly to it , what about
the middle "shaft" that allows the filter to screw on ?

I am not sure what you mean....if you get the adaptor to use a harley spin on oil filter and then the relocation kit that adapts the spin on filter to a remote location I don't see how it is a problem. When I posted about the AN fittings I was still looking at your adaptor with the two lines and thinking you would use a two line setup with a collar adaptor for the harley spin-on spigot. I am confused

[ProTeal55]

GEETO67--->

I was confused , but now I think i have it.

1. I need to get the Cycle Exchange adapter
2. I need to get a adapter to go ONTO that adapter , in order to run the AN lines

I guess my question is now , where would I locate the 2nd adapter ? Noone here knows , and I briefly looked
online and came up empty...

[Geeto67]

I'm just givin ya a little ribbing about the discovery channel stuff...friendly of course...

I'll check with my sources about the source of the relocation kit but IIRC I saw it recently in the JP catalog.

I had a thought though (there I go thinking again). Most of the guys who run harley tanks have to switch to 1/2 id lines from 3/8 because of oil stavation. I am wondering if the "kit" comes with 3/8 lines isn;t this the same problem in a different location?

the more I think about it the more I wonder if the parts america kit that the honda chop guys sggested isn't the way to go since it uses 1/2 id outlets.

[ProTeal55]

I am going with the Filter and adapter from Parts America, i like the 1/2 fittings.
Then I am pretty much set on the #1 adapter from Cycle Exchange. Net
Just need to source out the #2 adapter.

As far as lines go , I would prob. run 1/2 rubber hose , or 8AN lines.

[cb(r)]

question:
how are you mounting the filter?  the inlet is facing upward hopefully?
reason:
if you mount the filter upside down or on it side especially above you oil resevoir you will want to look into a check valve on the inlet side so the stays in the  oil filter.

[ProTeal55]

CB(R) ----->
I was thinking about mountig the filter pointing towards the rear of the bike, and the fittings
facing towards the front of the bike.  It will most likely go  in the area of where the stock passenger
peg used to be , on the Clutch/Left side of the bike..It will be lower than the stock oil tank for sure..

[dusterdude]

most fram filters have check valves in them nowadays

[cb(r)]

most fram filters have check valves in them nowadays

then there ya go.  I did not know that.  learn something new everyday.

[MRieck]

Try contact Terry in Australia  He made adapter and for oil coolers and this kind of ,saw this when the link was up and go  

Egil

I have one of Terry's adaptors with an Earl's cooler(-6 lines)...and his oil pressure gauge. Both work well. I'm going to assume Proteal is looking for something different. Keep in mind that oil pumps since the late 80's incorporated a seperate pump drive for the cooler. I'd use the smaller lines (-6) to reduce pressure lose. I use -8 on my FJ with a large Earl's but there is that dedicated pump.

[ProTeal55]

Been looking / asking around , and I think this idea of mine is comming to a
halt.

I don't think anyone sells the part I need, because if you think about it , their
is no point to have it made. Most HD guys will run a cooler before it gets to the
oilfilter, which is done easily becasue their filters are outside the motor.

What I need , is an adapter to take the place of a HD oil filter , than has provisions
for AN lines , both inlet and outle on it....

I am off to drink , been a long day 

[Buffo]

I am still looking and posted a post to see if anyone else remembers/knows where that post is...

It had something to do with a test and that fram oil filters let alot of unfiltered oil pass the relief valve in the filter under normal conditions...I will keep looking

[MRieck]

I am still looking and posted a post to see if anyone else remembers/knows where that post is...

It had something to do with a test and that fram oil filters let alot of unfiltered oil pass the relief valve in the filter under normal conditions...I will keep looking

I remember that post...use the high grade FRAM filters (gray exteriors).

[cd811]

all I really want is the adapter (from cycle exchange) but dam  $70!!??
wish I could get my hands on that cheaper.

Yea indian larry was too cool but not his idea... h-d did it stock long time ago...had a stock one on my 83 fxwg...My local auto shop carries the remote filter mount...I like them(had one on my last shovel head) because you can mount it anywhere and many filters will work.

[dusterdude]

joe,if im not mistaken our engines use a 17mm bolt ro attach to the engine and the jegs adapter doesnt have a 17mm bushing.cd,you lost me on the hd filter deal.

[ProTeal55]

DUSTERDUDE---> I read about the Honda being a 17mm , I need to find out what a HD
size is , becasue that is what I will be using if I go with the Cycle Exchange adapter...

Egill----> Thanks for the link. That cooler is pretty trick, not worth the money in my opinion , but still
cool. It seems as if that adapter , retains the stock filter , and just adds two fittings for the cooler.
I actually really like the setup , but I am sure it will sell for a pretty penny....

I still have this feeling that , once I figure out all the lines and adapters , the stock oil pump might have
a hard time moving the oil through out this "longer" system...I mean , the lines are going to be running
all they way from the front of the case , to the back of the bike , then back to the front. The LAST thing I want
to do is blow/starve the motor over a cosmetic thing such as this.,....

That is a big distance compared to it being inside the block....

[TwoTired]

I just now finished reading this whole thread from the beginning.

Your original post mentioned putting the remote filter in the return line from engine to oil tank.  I hope you have abandoned this approach.  The CB750 has a scavenge pump feeding this line and there will be lots of air in this return line.  An oil filter there will get blown full of air.

The oil pressure pump feeds the front oil filter, tap off of this line for remote filter use.

There have been tests to show that the relief and bypass valves in the FRAM oil filters have very poor quality control and leak most of the time.  This bypasses the filter element and negates much of any filtering action it might provide.  If you are going to use a spin on, use a different brand to retain good filtering action.  Try to find one that isn't just a FRAM filter design rebranded with a different label.

Cheers,

[Einyodeler]

Here are a couple of links on the subject of spin on oil filters:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters

[ProTeal55]

TWOTIRED ------>

Thanks for the info. I have switched from using the stock return line Idea , to something along the lines of replacing the
stock filter , with a side mounted unit, via some adapters and -AN lines. I have sourced the one adapter from the Cycle exchange , now in process of finding an adapter to go from that , to -AN lines.....and then on to the actuall filter...

So you are pretty sure that , If i stick with the current idea , I will have no issues of flow , or damage to the motor ?
The stock pressure pump will be able to push the oil back to the filter , near the rear tire , thru the filter , and then back into the
motor with no long term efects ?

I would think , as long as their is enough oil in the lines , the pump doesnt know if it is pushing thru a foot of lines , or 10 feet.

[TwoTired]

So you are pretty sure that , If i stick with the current idea , I will have no issues of flow , or damage to the motor ?
The stock pressure pump will be able to push the oil back to the filter , near the rear tire , thru the filter , and then back into the
motor with no long term efects ?

I would think, as long as their is enough oil in the lines , the pump doesnt know if it is pushing thru a foot of lines , or 10 feet.

The pump doesn't know, as it has a pressure relief limit.  The destination oil galley will see a pressure/volume drop.  Oil isn't there for the pump.  It's there for the engine journals, etc.  Oil will try to adhere to the internal line walls which provides resitance to movement.  The viscosity of the oil adds to the restrictive efect.  The more oil line, the more resistance.  You may have to boost the pressure relief setting to compensate for pressure loss at the destination.

It is my understanding that oil galley pressure, per se, is less important than oil galley volume. An engine is characterized during engineering to note at what pressure is indicated for the volume of oil moved through that engine.  So, if you measure the pressure of the same design engine thereafter, you can be confident the engine is getting the volume of oil needed to lubricate the important bits.  The important pressure point to measure will be at the point of entry to the engine galley, not the point of output of the pump.

  Large diameter hardwall lines will reduce resistance to flow and pressure loss.
The laws of fluid dynamics apply.  Larger lines will offer less resitance to flow than smaller diameter lines.  Hard lines maintain pressure better than soft lines.  You can expect a pressure drop and decreased volume flow through longer lines.  Though, I'm not sure how much.   Short is better.   Definately use a multivis oil that will flow well when cold.

 Something else I thought about is the oil temp.  Long lines can have a cooling effect.  What concerns me is condensation in tank and lines not getting heated enough to boil off.  Dino oil and water form amino acids which will slowly eat metal.  This would be a long term detrimental effect.  Probably the only way to have peace of mind is to instrument the new plumbing for temperature and pressure where it is being delivered to the engine.  Temporary instumentation will teach you the new system behavior, if permanent instrumentation doesn't fit with your apearance goals.

Hope this helps...

[ProTeal55]

Allot of info , but it does make allot of sense..
Thanks for the effort to help.

Like I have said , the last thing I want is to destroy the motor on the bike. One of the main reasons
I like the CB so much is that it is reliable , and dependable, and I don't want to have that change..
If I want to ride a bike , and have it break down on me , I will ride my HD.
The more and more I think about it , this might be a good way to blow my motor up , or cause
premature failure. Looks to me as their are allot more negative things that would/are going to happen
with this mod than positive....

Maybe I will just go with the spin-in HD filter . Maybe I will just leave the bike
the way it is , but what fun is that...?

[Buffo]

The filtering system on these bikes is pretty good. And being that you should change the oil every 1000 miles I really dont see the need for another filter.

A small oil cooler wouldn't hurt but you dont want to go too crazy...the bike needs to be run at a certin opporating temperature, plus or minus so many degrees. Running your big at a cooler temp does damage too. Parts like rings, valves and oil pumps wear out quicker. I live where it is at least 90f on a daily basis and I dont need a cooler.

Buffo

[ProTeal55]

I know how cold blooded these bikes are , thus I really am not in the market for a cooler.
Chicago's "summer" lasts for about two weeks....

I think I am gonna give up on this idea for the time being. I printed out all the great info I recieved
on this board , and others , so one day I can continue my research If I choose...

I still might put the fram on the back , just for good measure.....