Topic: Cash for clunkers. Why kill the motor? WTF America?!?!

[Frankencake]

I just found out about killing the cars as part of this program.  I am ashamed to be American when I see such a clearly stupid and predictably regrettable action such as this one.  Someone was not thinking.  It is such a pity and a waste of resources to destroy a perfectly good engine.  It feels almost soulless.  WTF??? 

[mystic_1]

Well without agreeing or disagreeing with the program, it's my understanding that thing thinking was to actually take the less-fuel-efficient cars off the road entirely.  If they don't do that then the program isn't really making our fleet of vehicles more efficient.  In Germany they've had problems with organized crime getting the old cars and re-selling them for profit.


Makes you wonder, though, what effect this program will have on the secondary parts market.

mystic_1

[cb650]

  Someone was not thinking.  It is such a pity and a waste of resources to destroy a perfectly good engine. 

And you would expect thought from out goverment LMAO!!!!!!!    Remember GM and Chrysler are now owened by the gov and unions.  Have to make laws to help sell new cars. 
I want to see a Ford comercial slamming them.

[333]

It should only be a small hit to the secondary parts market.  It's only the motor that is destroyed.  And the idea is to sell new cars AND get these gas guzzling, CO2 spewing vehicles off the road.  And nobody in their right mind would do this to a classic or restorable collectable because these cars are worth more than the government is willing to pay.  And even if someone were stoopid enough to try to trade in a classic, I can't believe a dealer wouldn't recognize it as such and pony up to buy it outright, therefore saving it from destruction.  Yes, as gearheads, we feel sad upon hearing about the seemingly useless destruction of an otherwise good engine.  But face it.  Some of these cars need destruction.

[SpAmSoNiTe]

While I know one of the biggest reasons of the program was to reduce our emissions, I thought it would have been a good idea to make it available to just AMERICAN cars.  I have absolutely nothing against cars from across the pond(I drive a Hyundai myself), but with how bad the American car industry has been hit, wouldn't this have made sense? Just my .02

[cb650]

In past couple years I have lived and worked by a couple shreaders.   You wouldnt believe the good old cars going there.  Even if they are not good enough for resto there is still good parts on them.  Even some old bikes.  After all they are just old POS's right.

[Cvillechopper]

While I know one of the biggest reasons of the program was to reduce our emissions, I thought it would have been a good idea to make it available to just AMERICAN cars.  I have absolutely nothing against cars from across the pond(I drive a Hyundai myself), but with how bad the American car industry has been hit, wouldn't this have made sense? Just my .02

That's one step closer to a government controlled economy.  The government basically owns the car companies and you want tax payers forced to pay for people to buy from poorly run companies that have been putting out inferior products for years?  Wide open for litigation by the companies actually producing the cars that meet the end goal (less emissions, higher mpg, etc).

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

I agree that freezing the engines and crunching the rest seems drastic but I read that most have traded 12mpg cars for 30mpg cars. They're basically crunching all the SUV's they should have never made to begin with.
It's still a shame to just be so consuming.

[333]

I feel I must comment on a couple points.  Having owned only GM cars since the late 70s, I take exception to the "inferior" comment.  Literally ALL of the problems I have ever had stem from either high milage(my first new car didn't come along until '91)and the fact that I drive 'em hard, or issues that the dealer is to blame(on the new vehicles).  The only other issue can be sort of blamed on the government, as since they disallowed asbestos in the brakes in '98, I can no longer get 60 to 70K out of a set of brake pads.  But that's on all cars, not just the American models.

And SUVs should have never been made?  Yes, a fair number of SUVs are bought by people who never intend to use them for what they were designed, but WE THE PEOPLE wanted them.  This particular issue has been discussed in other threads.  I don't know what TV you watch, but I watch more than my fair share, and I never saw any commercials that forced me to buy anything I didn't want.  I have never heard of anyone who went in to buy a compact car and came out with an SUV because he or she was coerced into it.

[736cc]

 6 out of the top 10 returned clunkers are Ford Exploders. Junk to the nth degree. The rest are gas guzzling Chevy/Ford/Dodge pickups and vans. Good riddance.
 After record over-flowing inventory, all dealer lots are almost empty (except for big trucks), people are buying econo cars like crazy. $4500 cash for clunker, plus dealer rebates etc. is a better idea than bailing-out billionaires and banks.....

[chrislib]

It is a waste. We have about 30 or 40 of these things lying around work, some of these cars ARE ready for the scrap heap but MOST of them are still nice viable functioning vehicles. Just yesterday I had one of my lube techs spend the better part of his afternoon grenading engines...sad. What really bugs me is that there are SCORES of lesser privileged folk who scab rides/call cabs/sit at bus stops every day...folk who would be thrilled to have a working vehicle, from that aspect alone I feel the program is a mistake but I guess my mind thinks a weee bit differently than the FED (thank goodness  ). Then there is the artificial demand that the program presents, i.e. what happens in the following weeks and months now that the initial surge of sales is complete? AND there is the fact that the majority (6 out of 10 IIRC) of the vehicles being sold are of foreign manufacture...that aint gonna help the Genrul or Chrysler too much now is it?

[333]

Something a bit wrong with one of your statements.  There are plenty of people who have cars that scab rides and who use public transportation.  Both have been proven to reduce emissions and traffic congestion.  And the idea that it's okay for "lesser privileged" people to pollute and throw money at OPEC?  Wouldn't these people be better served if they had more economical vehicles?

One thing I think we all can agree on.  It is sad to destroy engines.  And it would be nice if the program was geared to American companies.  But talk about lawsuits!  But I think this program does do a lot to help instill confidence in our economy.

[Laminar]

I feel I must comment on a couple points.  Having owned only GM cars since the late 70s, I take exception to the "inferior" comment.  Literally ALL of the problems I have ever had stem from either high milage(my first new car didn't come along until '91)and the fact that I drive 'em hard, or issues that the dealer is to blame(on the new vehicles).

Statistics don't lie. Just because YOU never had a problem with a car doesn't mean that GM/Chrysler/Ford cars are reliable whatsoever. It just means that there's someone out there who's had MORE than the average number of problems to even out the statistics. It's also interesting to me that you're able to justify a problem because it was a result of "high milage" and "driv[ing] 'em hard." I'm not sure what problems you COULDN'T justify by those reasons - the problem is that both of those terms are so subjective (How high is "high" milage? How hard is driving "hard"?) that they're essentially meaningless.

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan didn't become huge in the US because people wanted them to - it was a long, hard-fought battle where they had to prove themselves to scores of die-hard American-only car buyers. It happened with cars in the '70s, '80s, and '90s, and foreign automakers are making quite a bit of headway into the truck market as well, which is the Big 3's last frontier.

For everyone that's complaining about this program being available to imports as well as domestic automakers, check out Cars.com's American-made index. Only fifty percent of that fancy new Ford Fusion is American-sourced parts and it's assembled in Mexico. The Camry, on the other hand is roughly 75% American content (depending on how it's calculated) and is assembled in Indiana or Kentucky. So when you're buying that new car, think about in which countries your dollars are helping to create jobs.

One downside of this program is that non-profit organizations like Big Brothers/Sisters are seeing far far fewer vehicle donations since people are trading them in instead of donating them.

[kslrr]

Two words: Social Engineering.  The elite telling the masses what type of car to drive.  

I have a 2001 Suburban because I have a family of 8.  It would take 4 Smart Cars to transport my familiy, using an additional 6 gallons of fuel as compared to my truck on a trip from Las Vegas to Orange County CA.

[chrislib]

Something a bit wrong with one of your statements.  There are plenty of people who have cars that scab rides and who use public transportation.  Both have been proven to reduce emissions and traffic congestion.  And the idea that it's okay for "lesser privileged" people to pollute and throw money at OPEC?  Wouldn't these people be better served if they had more economical vehicles?

One thing I think we all can agree on.  It is sad to destroy engines.  And it would be nice if the program was geared to American companies.  But talk about lawsuits!  But I think this program does do a lot to help instill confidence in our economy.

I think you missed my point, there are folks who would LOVE to own their own vehicle but might not be able to AFFORD the purchase price, and this clunker program is sending them to the scrapheap. I`m talking about veh`s that are maybe 6-8 years old, one in particular is a very nice Isuzu Rodeo, it has about 50K on the clock and is clean as a whistle (obviously the PO cares for his stuff nicely), it is a crime to see that thing get squashed flatter than pee on a plate when I see the the same folks waiting for the bus day after day rain/sun/snow etc. How is it environmentally advantageous to destroy a perfectly useable car..only to replace it with another that cost natl resources to produce? I dont see the savings...sorta like the whole hybrid debate,but thats a whole `nother ball `o` wax.

[shacolaid]

My brother-in-law works at Auto Zone and was telling me something about this yesterday. I did not know that the Dealers were to seize the motors and scrap the entire car or truck. He says that the junk yards and resellers of auto parts are really hurting because there are still so many parts available on these vehicles, but they are all destroyed.
Also, yeah, Non-profits like Big brothers and the Kidney foundation are losing much of their donations because they are being scrapped.
And, used car lots and the car auctions have less vehicles to sell leaving others who might otherwise buy a used car unable. Even with a $4500 rebate, some cannot afford to buy a new vehicle.

[333]

I do work for a small non profit, and some of the cars we get we turn away.  They need too much work to pass Virginia's safety inspection.  And most used car lots only have cars worth 2 to 4 times what the rebate is.

And to answer Laminar, high mileage for me is 100k+.  My first van(step van, actually) had 129k on it when I bought it.  It was a bread delivery truck.  I had put dual exhaust and glass pack mufflers on it and was not above stop light drag racing it.

[Bob Wessner]

My brother-in-law works at Auto Zone and was telling me something about this yesterday. I did not know that the Dealers were to seize the motors and scrap the entire car or truck. He says that the junk yards and resellers of auto parts are really hurting because there are still so many parts available on these vehicles, but they are all destroyed.

Hadn't thought of this aspect of the program. I guess if you can't get parts for the clunker you keep, even those will die sooner.

[bucky katt]

there was a big article in our paper today, how both used car dealers and even more so, salvage yard operators are saying that the rule the engines have to be destroyed is hurting their businesses pretty badly. theres one used car dealer that has been around for something like 45 years and most of the cars they sell are the ones being destroyed now and they dont know if they'll survive because of that dumbass rule. sorry, i decided to remove the last sentence, wayyyyy too politically charged 

[Gordon]

Two words: Social Engineering.  The elite telling the masses what type of car to drive.  

I have a 2001 Suburban because I have a family of 8.  It would take 4 Smart Cars to transport my familiy, using an additional 6 gallons of fuel as compared to my truck on a trip from Las Vegas to Orange County CA.

You're one of the minority who actually need and use a large vehichle for what it was made for.  I don't think anybody's telling you that you have to trade it in for a sub-compact. 

[ofreen]

I doubt the authors of "cash for clunkers" considered the factors mentioned in this article -

http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/futures/39408

Or maybe they did, but those factors are irrelevant to their goals?

[cb650]

You will drive what the smarter than you goverment says you drive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


#$%* my 650 smokes wont be long before its in the shreader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[333]

You should make your 650 not smoke.  It'll stunt it's growth.  It could've been a 750.

[Industrial Rat400f Killer]

Two words: Social Engineering.  The elite telling the masses what type of car to drive.  

I have a 2001 Suburban because I have a family of 8.  It would take 4 Smart Cars to transport my familiy, using an additional 6 gallons of fuel as compared to my truck on a trip from Las Vegas to Orange County CA.

You're one of the minority who actually need and use a large vehichle for what it was made for.  I don't think anybody's telling you that you have to trade it in for a sub-compact. 

+1
It's not the people who need big vehicles that caused the market for gas guzzlers it's the people who used them as a status symbol, that only drove them because it made them cool. The people who need'em, need'em. The people that don't WTF?

Those are the SUV's I referred to as "never should have been made", the ones being bought to prove how cool somebody was.

[bucky katt]

Two words: Social Engineering.  The elite telling the masses what type of car to drive.  

I have a 2001 Suburban because I have a family of 8.  It would take 4 Smart Cars to transport my familiy, using an additional 6 gallons of fuel as compared to my truck on a trip from Las Vegas to Orange County CA.

You're one of the minority who actually need and use a large vehichle for what it was made for.  I don't think anybody's telling you that you have to trade it in for a sub-compact. 

+1
It's not the people who need big vehicles that caused the market for gas guzzlers it's the people who used them as a status symbol, that only drove them because it made them cool. The people who need'em, need'em. The people that don't WTF?

Those are the SUV's I referred to as "never should have been made", the ones being bought to prove how cool somebody was.

that reminds me of one of the hunters i regularly dealt with when i worked at the center where we sold hunting permits for Ft Jackson. he got a brand new Hummer H2, added a buttload of extras like brush gurards over the tail lights and the bigassed front brushguard/winch front bumper, bead lock styled wheels too. i asked him how great it was off road and i got this look like i had a penis growing out of my forehead! he was absolutely HORRIFIED that i thought he'd take one of the more off-road capable vehicles on the market, OFF ROAD! he said it might get all muddy or even scratched! i gave him a disgusted look and shook my head. this guy spent a bunch of money to buy the behemoth then around 10k extra for all the other "off road" accessories and he doesnt even like driving it in the rain. I on the otherhand use my saturn wagon to go out to my deer stands and i've hauled many a dead deer out of the wodds with it too!