Topic: My bike is freakin out.

[Inkscars]

Primary concern:
Getting on the highway, not any serious acceleration, get to 5th, accelerate some more.
Makes a "prominate" nasty click noise, rpms go through the roof. I let off of the throttle, Squeeze the clutch, and find it has worked it's way out of 5th gear, but it's not in neutral.
I click in back into 5th, cruises along just fine.
I have a donor engine laying around, but I really don't know what I'm looking for. I've got to go to Fayetteville on the 24th. It'll take about 6 hours or so. In otherwords, i HAVE to fix this.
I'm certain I have the parts, just help me figure out what I'm after.
Detent? Clutch Issue? Gear issue?
I've got a manual, but could certainly use some guidance on this one.
Thanks in advance ladies and gents!

[GammaFlat]

Mine will "miss" the 3-4 shift sometimes but I believe that to be a different problem.  Here's an old post from Mystic_1 closer to your problem.  Sorry to hear about your troubles.  The last thing anyone wants to hear is that you have to split the case

It couldn't hurt to pop the mission cover (left side shifter cover) and make sure that the gear selector mechanism is in good shape, but the most likely cause of popping outta fourth is either a worn shift fork or bad dogs on the gears themselves which as bryanj says requires splitting the cases to fix.

mystic_1

[bistromath]

It happens. Usually these bikes like to pop out of 2nd as well due to worn shifter dogs. If it's only happened once, I'd say let it be. If it happens all the time, you'll need to do something about it. Make sure you fully engage the gear when you shift, sometimes if you're lazy about shifting it'll pop out of gear.

[Inkscars]

I'd love to blame myself.
It's just started doing it in the last ohh..... I'd say 4 times I've ridden the bike for more than an hour.
We don't have a truck following us to fayetteville or else I'd say screw it. I really don't need to be stranded due to something I could've taken care of.

[KCRSXTypeS]

I'd love to blame myself.
It's just started doing it in the last ohh..... I'd say 4 times I've ridden the bike for more than an hour.
We don't have a truck following us to fayetteville or else I'd say screw it. I really don't need to be stranded due to something I could've taken care of.

Haha, my dad, mom and my uncle are going to be riding down there as well.  Maybe he will get a chance to talk to you about your bike then...assuming you fix this problem...

On mine, shifting from 2nd to 3rd during a hard accel upshift the RPMs seem to slip w/o gaining speed and then they drop back down and continue to accelerate.  Sounds similar but I figure its just me not FULLY upshifting and popping out of gear.  I hear the same 'click' noise you describe.

I think it could be a clutch or tranny problem which in that case you wouldn't need to throw in your donor motor. GL!

[bistromath]

KCRSX, your problem sounds a lot more like clutch slip. A transmission is either in gear or out of gear, there's no slipping.

SweaterMeat, I don't think it will strand you, unless you pop out under heavy accel and don't catch it in time to avoid over-revving. If you lose fifth, worst case you ride it in fourth. It does sound an awful lot like the shifter dogs are worn and not fully engaging fifth.

[KCRSXTypeS]

KCRSX, your problem sounds a lot more like clutch slip. A transmission is either in gear or out of gear, there's no slipping.

SweaterMeat, I don't think it will strand you, unless you pop out under heavy accel and don't catch it in time to avoid over-revving. If you lose fifth, worst case you ride it in fourth. It does sound an awful lot like the shifter dogs are worn and not fully engaging fifth.

That's my thought too...I am just HOPING its the other reason haha.

[Inkscars]

It does sound an awful lot like the shifter dogs are worn and not fully engaging fifth.

I have a manual.
I'm certain it doesn't list for "shifter dogs"
Is this like a fork in a standard car?
Do I have to crack the case?
And is, 2.5 weeks enough time to get it out replaced and back in, being a first timer.
I'm not new to technical or mechanical labor. Just not this engine.

[bistromath]

Shifter forks, same deal. You have to crack the cases to get at them. I still say don't bother until it really becomes a problem, it's too much of a pain in the ass to justify the work. If you have the parts on hand you can crack and seal the cases in a couple of nights if you know what you're doing, but if it's the first time this motor's been opened there's a lot of "while you're in there" stuff you'll want to replace. I wouldn't do it unless other things warranted it.

[mystic_1]

Well the "shifter dogs" are the little metal protrusions that stick out on the sides of the gears.  When you shift gears, the gears in the tranny slide back and forth on their shafts and the dogs engage or disengage with each other.  These are the parts that get reshaped when you have a transmission "undercut". 



mystic_1

[Tower]

Almost no chance this is a clutch problem.

Its possible that the shifter stoppers have broken springs - which might cause the shift drum to not turn fully - which in turn is not fully locking in the gears - but its unlikely.

Tranny work means a lot of measuring with callipers and dial gauges, and lots of humming and hawing about "should I or shouldn't I" do pre-emptive maintenance, since the case is already split.

In the end you're probably looking at a pre-emptive replacement of one, two, or three new shift forks, fork shaft, shift drum and bearings.  With luck, you will not have worn gear locking dogs or excessive gear backlash, either of which would mean gears, shaft and bearings replacement - should all get replaced as a set.

As was suggested - the actual time to measure and replace parts might not take long - but waiting on those parts could take a few days.  So, why do it unless you absolutely have to?

[HavocTurbo]

All I have to say is..... OUCH.

Tower man you are a serious tranny rebuilder. Either that or you check a lot of variables.

This effect is seriously common in the Goldwings. As well as all the Yamaha Triples and almost every bike that has been around the race track for more than 5 seasons without anybody looking at the gears.

Anything you will do to try to rectify this problem requires you to remove the engine from the frame and split it. More time and energy than it seems you have right now.

Baby the thing until you can get all the parts you will need. See Tower's list below.

In the end you're probably looking at a pre-emptive replacement of one, two, or three new shift forks, fork shaft, shift drum and bearings.  With luck, you will not have worn gear locking dogs or excessive gear backlash, either of which would mean gears, shaft and bearings replacement - should all get replaced as a set.

Sad part is.... Once you do all of this... then there's more you could do since you have it all spread eagle. I'd just wait until You know what you want to do with it motor wise before trying to fix just one thing.

[Tower]

Quickly closing in on retirement from a long distinguished career,@HavocTurbo - but back in the day...back in the day.

edit: raced triumphs in early 60's

[HavocTurbo]

What I wouldn't give to have been able to see those times in motorcycling.

[Inkscars]

So. Let me ask you this. Would you ride approximately 280 miles on a bike that was doing this occasionally?
Cause not going is NOT an option. either I get into the motor and use my donor to supply it or, I ride it as is and do it this winter.

[HavocTurbo]

I would seriously kick it into 5th. Everytime. Make a point of doing it. Not hard.... just firm.

Yes I would.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Ride it and baby it for now, it may mean 4th gear riding if it gets worse on the ride down or back up.

You have no knowledge of the state of that donor engine unless you rode it last yourself before it came off.
That donor could be in worse shape than your current one.

[bistromath]

Seriously. Worn dogs are not the end of the world. The worst thing that happens is it pops into 4th occasionally.

Quit the powershifting and shift as follows: first give a little upward pressure on the shift lever, THEN pull the clutch and "follow through" with the shifting movement. Should provide a better engagement and snappier feel. Ride the hell out of it until it gets too annoying to ride, then break it down.

[Inkscars]

so don't pull in the clutch first.
pull up on the shifter a bit, then clutch and fully shift?

[bistromath]

Yeah, just a little upward pressure on the shifter before you pull the clutch will often give better engagement.

[Inkscars]

Thanks for the tip.

[bistromath]

Offtopic, but curious why you changed your handle?

[kghost]

You know if its been a long while and your using a light oil....

An oil change might alleviate some of that.

[Inkscars]

 
Just a joke in the dive bar. I haven't changed it back because I found out my ex was googling my screen names.
I didn't know he was smart enough for that.
Turns out our website is very easily penetrable. 

An Oil change IS on my list of things to do before fayetteville....Hmm..
Without starting a huge oil debate. I know what brand I will get, but what weight do you suggest kasper?

[bistromath]

If it's warm, 20W50. If it's cold, 10W40. Past that, don't worry about it. 

[Inkscars]

It doesn't get all that crazy hot here but I've been running 10 w 40.
Should I bother when I change it to change over to 20w50? It's already significantly cooled off in kansas...

[mystic_1]

Run heavier oil in warm weather, thinner oil in cold weather.  Use the 10w40.

mystic_1

[kghost]

If it were the start of summer I'd say the 50 Weight....

But it is cooling off....give the 40 weight a go.

I'm sure someone will be along to flame the change the oil suggestion....However.

I can tell after a while that its getting time for an oil change on one of my 750's...

Shifting gets clunky, knotchy and occasionally It won't engage as you've described.

Changing the oil results in normal shifting.

[Tower]

Agree - proper weigth oil is important - 10W40 for the win in most seasons except for the extremes - remember its also lubing your clutch.

@kghost, sounds like sheer force deteriating your oil - try a 10W40 full synthetic - much better at not sheering - should last three times as long, or longer.

[kghost]

Agree - proper weigth oil is important - 10W40 for the win in most seasons except for the extremes - remember its also lubing your clutch.

@kghost, sounds like sheer force deteriating your oil - try a 10W40 full synthetic - much better at not sheering - should last three times as long, or longer.

I've not had any luck with the full synthetics.

Don't mean to turn this into an oil thread.

My main point was.....before you tear the engine out and split the cases......

Spend $20 and change the oil.