Author Topic: mistery racer (Read 14229 times)

turboguzzi · « **on:** October 12, 2009, 11:45:43 AM »

found this while searching for those elusive yoshi IOM hondas

site says

"1968 Cadwell Park

The first half is from 19th May 1968 with 60,000+ spectators. The 350 race held late afternoon after an earlier shower with Hailwood (Hinda 45) & Phil Rad (Yamaha 73) (apparently Read had only one front wheel for his two bikes that day! Date of 2nd half is unknown but maybe 1967. The Honda (103) has the name M. Sumiya on the fairing - a light 750cc racer developed from the CB500/4."

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/Video/Racing/Cadwell_Park_Sixties.wmv

Nice video, things is that the 750 didnt quite exist as a racer in 68', surely not the 500/4, unless that is a developement of the 500/4 GP racer that I never heard about. can somebody shed some light? To me it looks like a 1970 CR 750....

the relevant part of the video is at 0:50 secs.

TG

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:06:46 PM »

It's a CR750 that's been edited on too mid 60s footage.

Probably someone trying to see how many people are awake.

Sam.

voxonda · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2009, 08:44:00 AM »

The 750 was reveiled in 1968(in Japan)! Though unlikely, it is possible that they ran it before the actual launch.

Rob

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2009, 12:54:33 PM »

Wonderful video - fantastic to see the greats walking around the paddock, Hailwood, Ago and Read and if you look closely there's some old bloke in white leathers in the crowd - who could that be?

Interesting also that the first race footage seems to be on the insode of the circuit at the mountain - no chance of that nowadays!

It's remotely possible that this is a 750 racer as Morio Sumiya was the Honda test rider that took the CB750R to its first race win in 1968 at the Suzuka 8 hour. Maybe this was a pre-race shakedown before the full CB750R debuted at Suzuka?

Morio Sumiya was a superb racer a real class act, shame he's no longer with us.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2009, 01:31:33 PM »

Copy and paste from Honda website.

The in-house racing team at Honda R&D brought their CB750 Fours to compete in the Suzuka 10-Hour Endurance Race scheduled to be held in August 1969, soon after the model's commercial launch. Honda dominated the race with a one-two finish by Blue Helmet MSC. The team of Morio Sumiya and Tetsuya Hishiki took first place, while the pairing of Yoichi Oguma and Minoru Sato came in a close second.

I still say that footage has been edited.

Sam.

voxonda · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2009, 01:31:33 PM »

+1,

Sumiya brought the '73 bike home in 6th at Daytona.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #6 on:** October 15, 2009, 01:27:09 AM »

You might be right Sam - I was getting giddy with the footage and said '68 but it was '69. Maybe that footage shows a fore-runner 550 based engine though before the development of the 750?

The one thing that I find odd is the "Daytona" style paint job. That doesn't look right for the year and Sumiya liked his bright coloured designs...

voxonda · « **Reply #7 on:** October 15, 2009, 02:09:41 AM »

Quote from: lordmoonpie on October 15, 2009, 01:27:09 AM

You might be right Sam - I was getting giddy with the footage and said '68 but it was '69. Maybe that footage shows a fore-runner 550 based engine though before the development of the 750?

The one thing that I find odd is the "Daytona" style paint job. That doesn't look right for the year and Sumiya liked his bright coloured designs...

From what I can see from the footage it is definitely a 750. The camcover shows, just stop the movie and take a good look. If it is '69 then I take it Honda used it to pre-test the CR750.

Rob.

lordmoonpie · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:20:40 AM »

What about the paint job though - I thought that was a daytona special which would place it too late for this film...?

voxonda · « **Reply #9 on:** October 15, 2009, 05:48:50 AM »

Quote from: lordmoonpie on October 15, 2009, 04:20:40 AM

What about the paint job though - I thought that was a daytona special which would place it too late for this film...?

It's all speculative, but my quess is it is pre-Daytona 1970.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #10 on:** October 15, 2009, 01:05:38 PM »

The 1st clip is pre 69 as Bill Ivy died in 69 and was riding for Jawa not Yamaha.
The second clip after the CR footage is post 68 and pre 73, also note the lack of works Hondas and Yamahas.
In 68, John cooper was still riding in black leathers, he can clearly be seen in mustard coloured leathers on his G50 Seely, he retired in 73.
My guess is the CR was there in late 70, 71 or 72. It's not in any of the race footage but the padock it's in is Cadwell.

Sam.

turboguzzi · « **Reply #11 on:** October 15, 2009, 02:47:00 PM »

Eagle eyes! did you work for the MC5?

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #12 on:** October 15, 2009, 03:33:04 PM »

MI5

well I've found proof of him racing in the UK, see what you can spot in this from the 1969 Race of the Year.

Sam.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2009, 03:39:57 PM »

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.motosclassicas70.com.br/honda_cr_750_daytona.htm&ei=65rXSoKfF-KrjAfZxtDeCA&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&ved=0CBEQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmorio%2Bsumiya%2Bcr750%26hl%3Den

bwaller · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:25:23 PM »

Good stuff Sam, man you breathe this stuff huh?

I was at the 73 Daytona race when Saarinen won with a string of TZ's following. To be honest I don't remember the Honda racing, but it wasn't yesterday.

Sam Green Racing · « **Reply #15 on:** October 15, 2009, 05:24:09 PM »

It's the same here Brent, I was probably at a few meetings where there were CRs racing, but they were just modified road bikes as far as I was concerned, the fact that one of them was the factory prototype

When you've played about with a variety of RC machines, CRs just don't cut it.

Sam.

voxonda · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2009, 11:20:34 PM »

Quote from: SamCB750A on October 15, 2009, 01:05:38 PM

The 1st clip is pre 69 as Bill Ivy died in 69 and was riding for Jawa not Yamaha.
The second clip after the CR footage is post 68 and pre 73, also note the lack of works Hondas and Yamahas.
In 68, John cooper was still riding in black leathers, he can clearly be seen in mustard coloured leathers on his G50 Seely, he retired in 73.
My guess is the CR was there in late 70, 71 or 72. It's not in any of the race footage but the padock it's in is Cadwell.

Sam.

OK Sam, I 've convinced me!

Rob

kos · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2009, 08:15:23 AM »

You are not talking about this RSC RC500 Factory racer built up from CB500/550 parts are you?

3 valves per cylinder, dry clutch, CR750 rear brake. Kit CR750 front forks.

KOS

M3 Racing USA

kos · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2009, 08:25:37 AM »

More about the facotory RSC Built CB500R

Found out in official factory Motegi Museum documentation that this bike was raced, in a similar form at 1975 Bold'Or 24 Endurance race with rider Morio Sumiya.

Displacement 749.35cc
Max Power over 86.7 PS/11,000 RPM
CDI Ignition
Dry sump
Dry Clutch
5-speed trans

kos · « **Reply #19 on:** October 16, 2009, 08:27:16 AM »

Last pic...CB500R (Note this bike is different version with a different rider)

KOS

turboguzzi · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2009, 11:18:43 AM »

Hei Kos, thanks for reposting my pics.....

According to Motocilcismo who did the story on the bike (scans are from there), the bol d'or bike and this CB500R are NOT related. The one in the pics was built in 1972 an did only two race season in the All-Japan series then was sent to Italy, to the then famous Samoto dealership of Rome. It is still in private hands in Rome and has been seen at last year's ASI vintage meeting in the Varano track.

Motociclismo did underline that there is indeed another CB500 based 750 cc 3 valve racer in the museum, the one in the pics is a 2 valves, 650cc

Regardless, can you identify the 750's vintage in the first video?

TG

kos · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:24:26 PM »

Mystery bike

The #45 bike in the video is the 500ccc Works Honda GP bike that Honda gave to Sir Mike Hailwood after the stopped all official GP racing in 1967. The bike shown in video is the one that Ken Sprayson built a special frame for and had extra long reverse tips on megaphones. The other bike in the video is a factory Works RC750 Honda like the ones that Dick Mann used at Daytona in 1970 to win the 200 mile AMA race. This must have been edited into the tape at a later time.

I hope this helps

KOS

kos · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:46:53 PM »

More photos of Sumiya this time at Mallory Park UK.

kos · « **Reply #23 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:52:11 PM »

Sumiya Mallory ParK UK

turboguzzi · « **Reply #24 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:05:13 PM »

Kos, now that we have you here,

any idea on how the dry sump on that CB500R was built?

PS check your email,

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Author Topic: mistery racer (Read 14229 times)