Author Topic: Is this a problem (Frame pics)? (Read 3992 times)

BigBoi · « **on:** November 12, 2009, 06:13:57 PM »

Hey all,

I found this little tear on the bottom of my frame as I was cleaning it. I'm assuming this is a problem and I should have it welded? It's not possible that they had this on purpose is it?

Thanks,

CycleRanger · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:16:09 PM »

Um, yeah, you might want to get that looked at!

750Caferider · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:24:20 PM »

Yes definitely! Get that looked at by a great welder that has experience with frame work! Sorry for the piss luck!

Hope that is the worst you find!

Cheers,

Anders

myhondas · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:25:25 PM »

Ah Shoot...I thought that was a high speed drain slot....

BigBoi · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:26:41 PM »

I'm not exactly sure what would cause this type of thing. Before I grinded it I thought it may have been there on purpose...it was a perfect slit. Anyhow, I just wanted to confirm that it is an issue.

Thanks!

750Caferider · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:38:41 PM »

No that would be a stress fracture/tear...

Maybe from a wheelie king(aka someone that doesn't know how to feather it down easy)? Hope it's okay! Looks like it could be welded and have a patch plate put on over it and smoothed down a bit... It's on the bottom no one will notice!

Cheers,

Anders

myhondas · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:38:55 PM »

yup....definately a problem....as said above....find youself a good(great) welder and have that taken care of asap.

754 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:03:03 PM »

Might be frost damage, hope there is not more.

I might be tempted to weld it and not grind it all down..

Don R · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:08:49 PM »

I have that too, I think mine was frozen with water in it. It's worse than yours so I am going to weld in a section from a donor bike. Car wash maybe? My brother has a 77F with a small split too. As a plumber I have seen a lot of frozen pipes and they look like that.

BigBoi · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:11:05 PM »

It was parked outside for the winter (Canada is cold) by the previous owner.

I spoke to my contact and he's going to be able to weld it for me on the weekend.

I'm just glad the frame isn't junk.

750Caferider · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2009, 09:59:45 PM »

I've had a little experience with frame welding, mostly on Jeeps... My friend that is a union master pipe fitter always taught me to weld the damage, grind down smooth and plate over the area and completely weld that plate on. Grind only mildly for cosmetic appearance then paint it and call it good. I'd recommend tig welding it then maybe drilling a tiny hole near it for drain purposes on both sides... have you exposed the other side for inspection? Water freezing could have easily have done this as well so best to be on the defense in regards to it happening again.

Cheers,

Anders

HondaMan · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:10:48 PM »

This was a problem particularly on the K0 diecast and K1 bikes. Honda's techs sometimes forgot to drill the 3mm drain holes near the forward engine mounts on those frames, and they rusted from the inside out. Some even broke. Sometimes, the holes got painted over. Sometimes, the holes rusted shut, then the frame rusted out.

Get a welder to lay a thin piece of steel over that area, weld it full length on both sides. Do NOT weld it across the tube, only alnog the length, as it will further weaken the tubing if it is welded across-wise (like on car frames). Drill a small hole (1/8" is fine) in the center of the new patch, thru the bottom part of the tubing. Then, spray a generous amount of oil (preferably not WD-40, because it retains water, but 10w oil is OK) into the holes, turn the frame upright, and let it dribble out for a couple of days before painting.

On the other side, check to see if there is a drain hole by the other forward engine bolster. If not, make one, about 1" behind that mount.

We fixed lot of these with a "quiet" announcement by Honda's reps in the day...

Another place to watch: on the #2 exhaust pipe, there should be 2 drain holes where the pipe turns up into the muffler. Chain lube often closes these, then the pipe rusts out. Check those, too.

750Caferider · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:47:32 PM »

On second thought Honda man is right! Smaller dia. wall thickness... Good call!

Cheers,

Anders

BigBoi · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2009, 08:56:44 AM »

Quote from: HondaMan on November 12, 2009, 10:10:48 PM

This was a problem particularly on the K0 diecast and K1 bikes. Honda's techs sometimes forgot to drill the 3mm drain holes near the forward engine mounts on those frames, and they rusted from the inside out. Some even broke. Sometimes, the holes got painted over. Sometimes, the holes rusted shut, then the frame rusted out.

Get a welder to lay a thin piece of steel over that area, weld it full length on both sides. Do NOT weld it across the tube, only alnog the length, as it will further weaken the tubing if it is welded across-wise (like on car frames). Drill a small hole (1/8" is fine) in the center of the new patch, thru the bottom part of the tubing. Then, spray a generous amount of oil (preferably not WD-40, because it retains water, but 10w oil is OK) into the holes, turn the frame upright, and let it dribble out for a couple of days before painting.

On the other side, check to see if there is a drain hole by the other forward engine bolster. If not, make one, about 1" behind that mount.

We fixed lot of these with a "quiet" announcement by Honda's reps in the day...

Another place to watch: on the #2 exhaust pipe, there should be 2 drain holes where the pipe turns up into the muffler. Chain lube often closes these, then the pipe rusts out. Check those, too.

Thanks for the info. So I drill 1/8" hole on both left and right arms of the frame at number 2 in my pic? Then pump a pile of 10W oil into it and let it drip out for a couple days. Also, there are no other holes in the frame or cracks. I've been over it with a fine tooth comb.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:39:07 AM »

If my memory is correct, there should also be drain holes on the crossmember that holds the centerstand mounts.

I have a bare frame on a stand at home, I'll see where else it has drain holes later tonight.

mystic_1

Don R · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:34:47 PM »

When building a chrome moly drag race chassis we normally drill a small hole to let pressure escape. The heat will cause the air in the tube to expand causing the very last part of the weld to have a small defect due to escaping gasses. Probably not an issue here but the holes may have two advantages.

HondaMan · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:54:26 PM »

Quote from: BigBoi on November 13, 2009, 08:56:44 AM

Quote from: HondaMan on November 12, 2009, 10:10:48 PM
This was a problem particularly on the K0 diecast and K1 bikes. Honda's techs sometimes forgot to drill the 3mm drain holes near the forward engine mounts on those frames, and they rusted from the inside out. Some even broke. Sometimes, the holes got painted over. Sometimes, the holes rusted shut, then the frame rusted out.

Get a welder to lay a thin piece of steel over that area, weld it full length on both sides. Do NOT weld it across the tube, only alnog the length, as it will further weaken the tubing if it is welded across-wise (like on car frames). Drill a small hole (1/8" is fine) in the center of the new patch, thru the bottom part of the tubing. Then, spray a generous amount of oil (preferably not WD-40, because it retains water, but 10w oil is OK) into the holes, turn the frame upright, and let it dribble out for a couple of days before painting.

On the other side, check to see if there is a drain hole by the other forward engine bolster. If not, make one, about 1" behind that mount.

We fixed lot of these with a "quiet" announcement by Honda's reps in the day...

Another place to watch: on the #2 exhaust pipe, there should be 2 drain holes where the pipe turns up into the muffler. Chain lube often closes these, then the pipe rusts out. Check those, too.

Thanks for the info. So I drill 1/8" hole on both left and right arms of the frame at number 2 in my pic? Then pump a pile of 10W oil into it and let it drip out for a couple days. Also, there are no other holes in the frame or cracks. I've been over it with a fine tooth comb.

Sounds like you're on the right track!

HondaMan · « **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:55:04 PM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on November 13, 2009, 09:39:07 AM

If my memory is correct, there should also be drain holes on the crossmember that holds the centerstand mounts.

I have a bare frame on a stand at home, I'll see where else it has drain holes later tonight.

mystic_1

Right you are, Mystic.

camelman · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2009, 08:18:32 PM »

Considering that crack is right next to the side stand, I would suggest drilling a hole at either end of the crack to eliminate the increased stress it is causing. Then, check the hole through the entire thickness of the metal to make sure that is where the crack ends. If it doesn't end there, then take out some material until you find the end of the crack.
That crack will be loaded with quite a bit of force each time the side stand is used, so if the patch doesn't completely encompass the crack, then you could have the issue arise later since the crack might continue to grow every time you set the bike on the side stand. It would really suck for that crack to continue propagating after you have the patch laid over it, and to have the side stand break off one day with your lovely, restored bike taking an asphalt dive.

That issue arises from side stand stresses too. Not just rusting from the inside out. I had it on a 400F recently.

Camelman (the over-cautious engineer)

HondaMan · « **Reply #19 on:** November 15, 2009, 08:33:59 PM »

Quote from: camelman on November 14, 2009, 08:18:32 PM

Considering that crack is right next to the side stand, I would suggest drilling a hole at either end of the crack to eliminate the increased stress it is causing. Then, check the hole through the entire thickness of the metal to make sure that is where the crack ends. If it doesn't end there, then take out some material until you find the end of the crack.
That crack will be loaded with quite a bit of force each time the side stand is used, so if the patch doesn't completely encompass the crack, then you could have the issue arise later since the crack might continue to grow every time you set the bike on the side stand. It would really suck for that crack to continue propagating after you have the patch laid over it, and to have the side stand break off one day with your lovely, restored bike taking an asphalt dive.

That issue arises from side stand stresses too. Not just rusting from the inside out. I had it on a 400F recently.

Camelman (the over-cautious engineer)

Good catch, Camelman!
I can see how it could have started: ride of with the stand down, make a hard left that boinks the stand up, repeat...

camelman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 15, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »

Woohoo! I feel like I finally passed initiation. I have just received my first comment approval by Hondaman. ;-)

Camelman

750Caferider · « **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2009, 10:11:09 PM »

Lucky! Dang!

XN · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2009, 11:47:40 PM »

Make sure to stop drill the crack at both ends so the crack does not migrate!

Also boiled linseed oil would be a better choice to protect the inside of your tubing. Its been used to protect the inside of steel aircraft tubing since the 20's

just make sure its the boiled stuff and not raw or it will never dry. Most home improvement stores or woodworking stores carry it.

HondaMan · « **Reply #23 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:50:38 PM »

Quote from: XN on November 15, 2009, 11:47:40 PM

Make sure to stop drill the crack at both ends so the crack does not migrate!

Also boiled linseed oil would be a better choice to protect the inside of your tubing. Its been used to protect the inside of steel aircraft tubing since the 20's just make sure its the boiled stuff and not raw or it will never dry. Most home improvement stores or woodworking stores carry it.

This is cool: tell us more!

754 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2009, 09:25:00 PM »

The sidestand area is a strong part of the frame, I mean with the reinforcement plate and all. You see bent stands all the time, but the bracket is on for good.. I would say the way Honda laid that patch on would work well..

Just think of how many folks sit on their bike while leaning on the stand and the stress that puts to the mount..

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Author Topic: Is this a problem (Frame pics)? (Read 3992 times)