Author Topic: carb cleaning questions (Read 3288 times)

gmonkey · « **on:** December 27, 2009, 07:01:54 PM »

Excuse the questions if the answers are obvious. I don't think they're answered in the carb FAQ post.

Pulling my CB550's carbs apart to clean them out while it's cold out. (Ironically, it was 57 degrees here in new england today.) Just the #1 apart so far and doesn't look particularly gunked up. Just some minor varnish marks and the bowls have very fine rust particles settled at the bottom from the tank rusting (see first pic). There's a bit of it on a few parts like the jets and the floats. First question is what's a safe thing to clean the floats with? Will they take carb cleaner or do I have to take dish soap to them or something?

I'd like to give the carbs a dip in cleaner just for completeness sake but there's some parts that don't look like they can be removed and I'm not sure they'll withstand the carb cleaner. One is a small bit that protrudes into the part where throttle valve slides (second pic). The others are woolly looking washers that go on the throttle and choke plate rods. The ones that seal the choke mechanism (third pic) do not look like they're meant to be removed. Can these withstand carb cleaner? I'm not really sure what you're supposed to do about them if they can't.

Also, I think the FAQ mentions that someone was looking at getting all the jet o-rings from an industrial supply place. I've got a grainger's nearby, anyone know what part numbers match up?

Any info will be appreciated.

bender01 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2009, 07:59:52 PM »

Search simple green.Works great with a little elbow grease. Should be ok on floats and orings if theyre in decent shape. A member here
kthunter01@sbcglobal.net
used to sell the o-ring kits for all 4 carbs reasonably. Im not sure anymore.
Im not sure that you needed to go into the top of the carbs(if your slides werent sticking) but your there now. Youll need carb cleaner to get the small brass pieces clean. Thats all ive got. Good luck.

gmonkey · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:33:28 AM »

I'm familiar with simple green. Good stuff. I've got a gallon jug of the concentrate somewhere. Thanks for the info bender.

Could someone please tell me if it's safe to dip the carb body into cleaner with the parts you can't remove still in or have I got to just hose all the passages out with a can? I'm not opposed to either one but dipping it looks to be the most common method from what I found and seems like it'd work better.

Johnie · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:52:40 AM »

I never tried the Simple Green but use Gunk Carb Cleaner. It comes in a gallon paint can with a basket to lower the parts into the can. I dip my entire carb body into the Gunk and never had a problem with any of those parts I can not remove. Below is a pic of the cleaner at work.

Deltarider · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:31:06 AM »

I see no advantage in dipping. It implies separating the four carbs. I've never felt the need to do that. Lots of work with the risk of lots of problems. Just clean the parts that you can remove, like (needle)jets, floats and - if you must - needles. All this can be done without separating carbs from the rack. Passages in the body can be blown with something like brakecleaner. BTW, does any of you have experience with brakefluid as a carbcleaner?

Johnie · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:02:16 AM »

On bikes almost 40 years old dipping is the only way to do a thorough job. Why stick all the money into new parts and then only do half the job if you have the expertise of doing the entire job. Separating the carbs is easy and nothing to be afraid of. It is not even time consuming unless you feel you are in a hurry to get it done.

ekpent · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:22:55 AM »

+1 with Johnie. A lot of bikes I have bought had sat for very long periods,carbs seized,varnish issues,etc. Nice to know that they are thoroughly cleaned and set before moving on to the other issues. Guess I am just and old "Gunker" also,think I will save Cola for my cocktails as seen in other treads.

gmonkey · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:38:34 AM »

How much does that can of Gunk carb cleaner usually go for in USD? Auto place by my house has it for $30 but they often seem overpriced to me. Also is that can enough for all 4 carbs? I'm afraid if I dip them one at a time, the last one's not going to come out all that clean.

Johnie · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:24:04 AM »

Quote from: gmonkey on December 28, 2009, 08:38:34 AM

How much does that can of Gunk carb cleaner usually go for in USD? Auto place by my house has it for $30 but they often seem overpriced to me. Also is that can enough for all 4 carbs? I'm afraid if I dip them one at a time, the last one's not going to come out all that clean.

I can not recall the cost of my Gunk cleaner as I bought it like 10 years ago. I have cleaned about 30 individual carbs in that can. I will let the junk soak to the bottom of the can and will then dump the clean stuff off, clean and rinse the can, then dump the cleaner back into it. Pretty soon I will buy a little more to top off my can. I think I got it at my local NAPA store. There is the before and after pic below.

ironbutter · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2009, 11:02:08 AM »

Ive had a can in my garage for a couple of years, paid $20.99 I think. Im going to do my carbs in the next few weeks, what about the prep you guys do? Remove all gaskets etc... and I suppose the removable bits, jets, tubes etc, and then dip it all? Anything else I should be aware of?

ekpent · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:20:20 PM »

Try not to let the rubber bits like o-rings etc. sit in the stuff for long periods,they have a tendency to swell up.

gmonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:24:07 PM »

Quote from: Deltarider on December 28, 2009, 07:31:06 AM

BTW, does any of you have experience with brakefluid as a carbcleaner?

I don't know if it would work or not and I'm not saying if you should or shouldn't but what is your purpose in using brake fluid for this? Do you expect it to work better than carb spray or do you just have a lot of it? I personally try to use the stuff as little as possible. It just seems more toxic to me than than things like carb and brake cleaner. I realize those hurt rubber bits more but they just don't seem to be nearly as bad for your skin (fumes are a different story). Also it seems like if you washed something out with brake fluid you'd have to wash it with something else just to get rid of that.

BobbyR · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:30:17 PM »

Quote from: Johnie on December 28, 2009, 09:24:04 AM

Quote from: gmonkey on December 28, 2009, 08:38:34 AM
How much does that can of Gunk carb cleaner usually go for in USD? Auto place by my house has it for $30 but they often seem overpriced to me. Also is that can enough for all 4 carbs? I'm afraid if I dip them one at a time, the last one's not going to come out all that clean.
I can not recall the cost of my Gunk cleaner as I bought it like 10 years ago. I have cleaned about 30 individual carbs in that can. I will let the junk soak to the bottom of the can and will then dump the clean stuff off, clean and rinse the can, then dump the cleaner back into it. Pretty soon I will buy a little more to top off my can. I think I got it at my local NAPA store. There is the before and after pic below.

They changed the formula over the last 10 years.

TwoTired · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:46:30 PM »

I've de-racked carbs for cleaning many times, but prefer to clean them in a bank, unless there is a specific reason to de-rack them, like damaged carb bodies.

Simply dipping does NOT ensure all passageways are clear, that is for certain. You have to prove all those circuits as a separate task, regardless, whether they are in-rack or not does not matter.
The outside of the carbs are easier to clean with them de-racked, certainly. But, not the internal passageways.

I think de-racking does please the OCD types more. But, with some carbs, the choke plates are staked and re-staking has a tendency to bend the choke plate shafts unless the rebuilder makes a fixture for proper support. In this way, de-racking can actually lead to further damage, as well as mixing up parts with different carb bodies, which can lead to problems on its own.

Lately, I've been thinking that externally cleaning the still-in-rack carbs can be done with soda blasting, to get the same look as dipping.
As for cleaning fluid, the canned aerosol carb cleaner does a pretty good job removing varnish and they have those red tubes that can be used to "prove" the internal passageways. Gotta keep it away from rubber though. Still a proper rebuild is going the replace the rubber bits anyway.

IMO

Cheers,

BobbyR · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:50:12 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on December 28, 2009, 12:46:30 PM

I've de-racked carbs for cleaning many times, but prefer to clean them in a bank, unless there is a specific reason to de-rack them, like damaged carb bodies.

Simply dipping does NOT ensure all passageways are clear, that is for certain. You have to prove all those circuits as a separate task, regardless, whether they are in-rack or not does not matter.
The outside of the carbs are easier to clean with them de-racked, certainly. But, not the internal passageways.

I think de-racking does please the OCD types more. But, with some carbs, the choke plates are staked and re-staking has a tendency to bend the choke plate shafts unless the rebuilder makes a fixture for proper support. In this way, de-racking can actually lead to further damage, as well as mixing up parts with different carb bodies, which can lead to problems on its own.

Lately, I've been thinking that externally cleaning the still-in-rack carbs can be done with soda blasting, to get the same look as dipping.
As for cleaning fluid, the canned aerosol carb cleaner does a pretty good job removing varnish and they have those red tubes that can be used to "prove" the internal passageways. Gotta keep it away from rubber though. Still a proper rebuild is going the replace the rubber bits anyway.

IMO

Cheers,

+1

Johnie · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:03:11 PM »

I agree with not deracking if you can clean the body and orfices without doing it. The main issue here is do we want to clean the body and those orfices or not? My gallon can of Gunk would not hold more than 1 carb at a time, hence, I had to crack the rack. Not a big deal. If I had a huge can of Gunk I would have soaked the rack in tack. Granted, much of the years of build up in those orfices would not come clean with a spray, but the soak will loosen it for cleaning. Plus, I learned a great deal doing it and had huge piece of mind.

hoodellyhoo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:10:11 PM »

On my K6 carbs I absolutely had to derack them because of all the little rust particles that were sitting in the fuel passages. I doubt that would have all gotten cleaned if I had left them in a rack.

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:21:40 PM »

Quote from: Deltarider on December 28, 2009, 07:31:06 AM

I see no advantage in dipping. It implies separating the four carbs.

Quote from: Johnie

On bikes almost 40 years old dipping is the only way to do a thorough job. Why stick all the money into new parts and then only do half the job if you have the expertise of doing the entire job. Separating the carbs is easy and nothing to be afraid of.

Ah yes, I knew this was coming. There are the "don't separate" and "separate" crowds. Kind of like the oil threads. I've had good success in stripping mine all the way down. I took that opportunity to replace those o rings on the fuel tees too. You do run the risk of messing something up though. There are little rubber things on the 350Fs that go over the slide arms or whatever they're called. Near the top. Very easily torn if you separate them...

BobbyR · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:33:24 PM »

It is a matter of personal preference and situation. In general you can clean out passages with racked carbs, if there are other conditions that warrant deracking, you derack. Everyone's situation may be different. No absolute right or wrong approach.

Johnie · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:36:39 PM »

I agree and think all in all the decision to rack or de-rack will depend on the carb style, little idiosyncrasies of each carb, our individual expertise and confidence, and how terribly dirty they are. Let each one of us be the judge to guide our own destiny...

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:40:19 PM »

Quote from: Johnie on December 28, 2009, 02:36:39 PM

I agree and think all in all the decision to rack or de-rack will depend on the carb style, little idiosyncrasies of each carb, our individual expertise and confidence, and how terribly dirty they are. Let each one of us be the judge to guide our own destiny...

ah, that's no fun... Let judge!

Flying J · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:45:37 PM »

why not do both. Keep em in a rack and dip them, atleast the parts that count.

gmonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2009, 03:08:02 PM »

Would you not have to derack to remove all the plastic bits? There's plastic bushings at the top that you can only get out by pulling the throttle rods, some short rubber fuel hoses that connect the carbs and other things that you can't get out while the carbs are separated. Or is the only thing that the carb cleaner can damage the rubber o-rings?

gmonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2009, 03:41:40 PM »

Just realized I'm mixing up my polymers. Why do I keep calling stuff teflon? What's the one they make gears and chain guides and such out of?

sbparks · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:02:59 AM »

Guys,

This is a great post as I am learning quite a bit as I read other people's experience with what I am working on at this very moment.

BTW... I took my carbs off the bracket so as to get at all sides of the carbs for cleaning. I felt it necessary to do so. We'll see how I feel when I put it all back together (hopefully soon...).

Here's the question I came up with. I am using the 'Berryman ChemDip' product to clean all of my metal parts. Same deal as the Gunk product... There's a dip basket for soaking the parts. I am gong to post a picture of one of my cleaned carb bodies. Maybe the pictures aren't quite telling the truth, but my carb body doesn't appear to be as clean (maybe a better word is bright) as the pictures that Johnnie is posting.

Am I doing something different? How are you guys getting such a bright looking (loooks new to me) carb body? Is it the product I bought (should I get the Gunk product)?

I had a can of this carb cleaner (not sure what brand) 15 years ago that I used for cleaning an old tractor carburator. This was a cast iron carb body that was painted. The carb cleaner was really effective. Parts came out clean an looking like new. All of the paint just wiped off the bodies. This stuff was nasty, but it sure worked!

I don't seem to be getting the same reults with my Berrymans cleaner. I think the bodies are funtionally clean, but I'd like to get that 'like new' look while I'm going to all of this trouble.

Thanks for any ideas guys!

Scott

Montgomery · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:57:38 AM »

Well I'm glad that other people don't de-rack them. I figured I was being a lazy rookie by just dunking the whole bank in simple green.

Johnie · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2009, 09:21:01 AM »

Berrymans is a good product and many guys here really like the product. That pic of my carbs are the K4's I am working on now. I did use a little MAAS polish on the bowls, but the bodies came out like in the pic. Below is another pic of the carbs before the dip. You may have a little oxidation that can be rubbed out by hand with some polish.

News:

Author Topic: carb cleaning questions (Read 3288 times)