Author Topic: Seamus - '74 550 (Read 37500 times)

theofam · « **Reply #50 on:** February 21, 2010, 07:24:41 PM »

TwoTired, Traveler, Cornandp, good info. I'll be OK with these since they're straight from Honda, but I'll test any I get elsewhere before I use them. I should get back out to the garage tomorrow - just spent the weekend skiing some GREAT snow in Colorado's beautiful Rockies!

Little_Horse · « **Reply #51 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:07:48 PM »

I got your PM but my home computer for some reason won't let me PM.

I haven't actually used the two machines you found on cl, but it looks like the econotig is a better deal. MF retail is $1900 and on the other machine it was $1600. One can only run on 220v though so watch out if that is an issue with your garrage wiring. These machines can also weld aluminum so if you don't mind the extra bulk of the welder over the maxstars extra small size then I would pick one of those up since the CL ones can also weld aluminum. A gas bottle will cost around $100 and depending on size $60 to fill the largest (300).

As far as the difference between the two maxstars the stl is a lift arc, which is a little bit more difficult to use. Not a big deal. The STH you can start with the electrode about a sixteenth of an in away, it also has lift arc and pulse settings.

TIG welding can be a bit frustrating at first, I can give you some help but it won't be nearly as effective as taking a tig welding class at the local tech college. Once you get one if you have a web cam we can link up and I will walk you through the basics.

theofam · « **Reply #52 on:** February 24, 2010, 09:16:59 PM »

cornandp, thanks for the info on the welders and the offer to help me via web cam - you're too kind! I assumed the Maxstars would do aluminum until I read your comments and verified on Miller's site they're steel only. Since I'd like to try aluminum down the road, I think I'll look for something that does both alum & steel.

theofam · « **Reply #53 on:** February 24, 2010, 09:37:11 PM »

Got to spend some time in the garage today. Is there a spoke source that's cheaper than Buchanan's? I wanted to go w/ SS spokes until I realized I'd be spending $200 on spokes! HELP!! So, I unlaced the front wheel and am currently soaking the rim & spokes/nipples in some Simple Green. Tomorrow, I'll start the oxalic acid soak for a few days to get rid of the rust once degreased. If I can get the spokes super clean, I may reuse them. But, my gut tells me they're too rusty.

I also performed the most rookie fork removal of all time. I got the top dust cup removed that holds on the lower triple tree, but I didn't hold onto the triple tree. So, of course, it crashed to the floor w/ forks.

Ball bearings were bouncing all over the floor. DOH! There were 18 up top - they seemed unscathed after my rookie move, so I figured 18 on the bottom would make sense. I had 36 balls accounted for until I found the 37th 30 minutes later. How many balls are there top and bottom? I wonder if I'm missing some.

I'd like to drill the rotor, but I don't have access to any CAD/software to design a layout. Does anyone have a pattern they've used they'd like to mail me? Or, is that akin to me asking to date your sister? I understand if someone has a custom layout they don't want to share. Also, is it recommended to chamfer the holes once drilled?

SohRon · « **Reply #54 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:08:57 PM »

Talk to the guys down at Woody's Wheel Works in Denver. I bought spokes for the rear wheel and had it laced there. Take a look at page 4 of my build thread for the completed wheel pics.

Also, it's 18 balls on the top, 19 on the bottom.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #55 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:25:00 PM »

the lower has more bearings, I think the manual on this site says how many.

So if you want a hole pattern I can either email you a pdf of the one I used or make a new one for you, just let me know if you like the pattern on mine or if you have your own idea. It only takes me a few minutes for me to design in solid works. The way it works is I make a drawing size 1 to 1 then you print it cut it out. Take a pointed object a pen and punch a pin hole in all the centers of the template then use a sharpy to make each center. I then used a center drill so that my bit wouldn't wander later. Half hour later or so you are done. The rotor is stainless so getting the right cutting speeds and using a lubricant is the only way. The formula for cut speed is about 60 rev per inch. So a one inch bit you would ideally spin at 60 revs compared to a quarter in bit being spun at 240 rpm.

Make sure you find all the bearings

.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #56 on:** February 24, 2010, 10:28:14 PM »

I checked you found all the bearings, 18 in the top and 19 in the lower.

theofam · « **Reply #57 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:37:05 AM »

SohRon, thanks for the referral to Woody's Wheel Works. I'll check them out.

Cornandp, I'll get back to you on a pattern. Thanks for offering to send me one!

Zaipai · « **Reply #58 on:** March 02, 2010, 05:15:45 PM »

Nice work on Seamus so far.. Your work is going quicker then mine, however the blaster cabinet is a help I am sure.. I am watching with great anticipation to see what happens next..

.: Scott :.

theofam · « **Reply #59 on:** March 02, 2010, 05:25:00 PM »

Zaipai, thanks for checking out the thread! I feel like I've been stalled for the past five days (my kids had a long, four-day weekend). I cleaned up my front rim and spokes in oxalic acid to get rid of the rust over the weekend. Bad news is my rim is pretty pitted up and the spokes are still in bad shape. Good news is I was kinda thinking I'd blast/sand the chrome on the rim and paint it black. Looks like I might have my first paint project!

Anyone know if the 750 wheels (19" front/18" rear) use the same spokes as the 550 wheels? I've priced stainless steel spokes, but they're too high dollar, so I was thinking I might go w/ these cadmium spokes if they'll work:

https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=cb750_sohc&category=chassis

Little_Horse · « **Reply #60 on:** March 02, 2010, 06:18:31 PM »

Thats how I painted my rims black, blasted the chrome and the spokes then sprayed them black. I am a fan of black rims, but thats just me. So the 750 spokes are cheaper?

Zaipai · « **Reply #61 on:** March 02, 2010, 08:00:55 PM »

Could be they are cheaper, so far the cheapest I found the CB550's for (front) is $80~$90 for the cad ones, and that's not a firm price I am waiting for Redline to call me back and let me know the final price.. I don't know if the CB750's will work, I will hunt around and see if I can find out.

.: Scott :.

theofam · « **Reply #62 on:** March 03, 2010, 07:48:34 AM »

Cornandp, I'm not sure if the 750 spokes in cadmium are cheaper than 550 spokes. I haven't been able to locate 550 cadmium spokes yet. I'll likely take SohRon's advice and check with Woody's Wheel Works here in Denver. The 750 cadmium spokes on partsnmore look like a good price to me, if they'll work. I think black rims and hubs with silver spokes will look cool, if I can go that way reasonably priced.

theofam · « **Reply #63 on:** March 06, 2010, 07:40:27 AM »

Ever feel like you're moving through molasses on your bike build? It seems like my progress is going REALLY slooooow.

I was just served a subpoena - I'm being sued by my front hub's retaining nut for "cruel and unusual punishment." Man, am I a TOOL! I totally boogered it up getting it out. I took dagersh's advice and drilled out the punch mark holding it in. After that, I started trying to remove it. I found the metal is so soft that I really chewed it up using a flat tip. So, I moved on to a punch, and I still chewed it up. Dunno if I can reuse it or not:

Moral of the story: get/make the right tool to remove the hubs' retaining nuts.

Cussing about the retaining nut's new condition, I moved on to removal of the bearings. I couldn't seem to remove the front hub's wheel bearings with others' suggestions - hammer and drift/punch/screwdriver. So, off to Carquest where they put the hub under a 20-ton press. They didn't put much pressure on them, but enough to realize they weren't budging. Returned home for more time on this forum only to learn one of the bearings has a boss behind it, so it wouldn't have budged if they put all 20 tons on it (unless that much pressure would have torn the boss off the hub). In this pic you can see the inside of the hub. The boss is on the far side and is a smaller diameter hole than the one in the foreground:

I'm jumping ahead. Since I wasn't able to get the bearings out, I decided it's time to buy the right tool. So, off to HF I went for this. It worked great ($40)!

Another thread had asked about the spacer that goes in the middle of the hub. It's smaller side rests inside the boss. Here's a photo for orientation. Kind of tough to tell, but the smaller side of the spacer is on the left:

While at Harbor Freight, I was hypnotized by all the tools and walked out with the large model of vibratory tumbler. I was psyched to realize it would hold my front wheel's spokes. I had called Eastwood, and their large model, at $550, won't hold 19" wheel spokes. This one does, and it's on sale for $150 until 3/25/2010. It was highly recommended I buy the extended protection plan for anything over $50 by one of the HF employees. So, for an extra $34, I've got two years' warranty. Here are pics of the spokes and nipples when I dropped them into the tumbler Thursday.

I'm really hoping this works. I don't know why I've such an adverse reaction to paying $200 for ss spokes, but if the tumbler works, it'll pay for itself quickly. Not to mention all the nuts/bolts I can get a nice shine on! I'm not sure yet if it'll knock off the old cadmium plating or not. I'll post after pics next week once the spokes go through a few days in the fine walnut shell media with some metal polish.

My intent on Seamus is to do everything myself (with the exception of possible engine machining - hopefully not necessary). So, I've started construction of a paint booth of sorts. I've a buddy who lost his front fender due to a yahoo backing into his Harley while parked at Home Depot. My dad donated his old Road King fender. So, I stripped it yesterday and will prep, primer and paint it over the next couple weeks. Hopefully, I'll get all the runs and overspray out of my system before I paint Seamus!

If you're sorting through your parts bin and find a front hub retaining nut you're not using, let me know how much you need for it!

traveler · « **Reply #64 on:** March 06, 2010, 07:51:11 AM »

Did you check eBay for spokes?

Theres a a company in Thailand that sells spokes apparently made in Japan....about 75-80 bucks for a set front and rear...of couse shipping is another 30-35 buc ks....but ALOT cheaper than Bucky's....Me thinks Bucky is trying to gouge people.

~Joe

theofam · « **Reply #65 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:22:27 AM »

Traveler, if it's $75-80 front and back for stainless steel, that's a great deal! They may be cadmium at that price, which is apparently what our bikes came with originally.

I thought Bucky's was outrageous, until I checked my local shop for stainless. It was right around $200 for both wheels, too. Seems like a ton of $. That's why I'm trying hard to get the original spokes to work, although they're some kind of ugly!

Zaipai · « **Reply #66 on:** March 08, 2010, 05:34:47 AM »

I 've run into the same issue with spokes. With my budget just about gone I am thinking of just reusing my old spokes for the front for this year. I mean it is some thing I can put off till next spring. I am still in search tho.. Just not sure.

Can't wait to see how yours turn out after the wash... I know how you feel about the build slowing down, mine feels that way.

.: Scott :.

theofam · « **Reply #67 on:** March 08, 2010, 10:41:07 AM »

Dangit! So much for burning four days trying to clean my spokes and nipples in the new vibratory tumbler. The nipples turned out best:
Before

After

The spokes really cleaned up well on the flanged portion that sits in the hub. But, the main bodies of the spokes still look pretty awful:
Before

After

My conclusion, and it may be incorrect, is the body of the spoke is cadmium plated, whereas the nipples and the flanged portion of the spoke are not. It's the only thing I can think of that would explain why the nipples and flanges cleaned up so nicely. Anyone want to confirm or disagree with my conclusion?

I'm thinking the spokes might clean up nicely if I drop them off somewhere to have the cadmium stripped, then, like Traveler, I can use some metal polish on them (probably in the tumbler). I'm struggling with how much time I want to spend fiddle farting around with them versus just buying new ones. Hmmm.

Off to get the carbs on the stay plate and bench synched (which I've never done). Wish me luck!

Little_Horse · « **Reply #68 on:** March 08, 2010, 03:39:13 PM »

maybe call around the local plating companies and see how much it would cost to have the spokes re plated. Then you could also have a choice of nickle plating or chrome. I personally like nickle plate better. You might find the price reasonable who knows.

Zaipai · « **Reply #69 on:** March 08, 2010, 06:02:58 PM »

I agree with cornandp, that might be the best way to do it. But not finding a good way to make them clean will errk you off every time you look at them. Look around there is probably some way you can spruce them up some.. I am in the same boat.. so should be interesting to see what (if anything) I come up with.

GL on the carbs!

.: Scott :.

theofam · « **Reply #70 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:11:59 PM »

Zaipai/cornandp, thanks for the spoke support! Woody's (local wheel shop) told me SS spokes would be less expensive than stripping and re-plating, in cadmium, the old spokes. I'm not sure how cadmium prices stack up to chrome or nickel, though. Time to make a few calls!

Stev-o · « **Reply #71 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:40:37 PM »

Got a quote to rechrome my front fender - $200! Needless to say, it is still on the bike.

Good Luck

theofam · « **Reply #72 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:49:18 PM »

Meriggi, Wooo! That's steep! If you've some light surface rust, you might want to try a bath of oxalic acid and water for a few days. It chews off the rust very well. If you look back to page 1 of my thread, there's a link to vintagebmx.com with an entire thread on oxalic acid and chrome. It works well, unless the rust has eaten into the chrome. Then, the pitting can be tough to get rid of unless you polish down to the metal to feather in the chrome/metal for a somewhat consistent appearance.

Little_Horse · « **Reply #73 on:** March 09, 2010, 07:32:45 AM »

So how much for nickle plate?

theofam · « **Reply #74 on:** March 09, 2010, 10:18:55 AM »

Looks like I'm buying spokes! I called the two plating shops I could find in Denver and got a return call from one of them (Denver Metal Finishing). They told me it would be cheaper to buy SS spokes at $100/wheel than strip the old cadmium, prepare the spokes and plate them. He had "no idea" how much it would be, but more than $200.

Oh well. I burned 1-2 weeks trying to make the old spokes work, but it's probably not the last time Seamus' rusty bits will cost me some time (and money)!

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Author Topic: Seamus - '74 550 (Read 37500 times)

traveler