Author Topic: 550 clutch reassembly woes UPDATED! (Read 5763 times)

bistromath · « **on:** February 22, 2010, 11:21:40 AM »

I got a clutch pack from David Silver and either I'm doing something wrong or I got the wrong clutch pack. The disks don't fit flush against the lifter plate. Here's what the clutch pack looks like assembled -- note the gap between the lowest friction disk and the lifter plate:

The larger disk is at the top, outermost from the clutch hub. It has angled grooves and wider tabs than the rest of the friction disks:

And so it definitely has to sit at the outside of the clutch pack, and indeed the manuals say it goes there:

But the lifter plate's diameter is too large to allow the innermost friction disk to sit flush against it, and so there's a gap:

That gap can't be right. I believe the friction disk should sit flush against the lifter plate. But there's fully two millimeters of interference between the ID of the clutch disk and the OD of the lifter plate. Did I get the wrong parts from Mr. Silver? I called them up, and he says they shipped the right parts. Do I have a wonky lifter plate? Is it really supposed to go together like this?

bistromath · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2010, 06:48:20 PM »

Man, nobody knows? Any guesses? Idle speculation? Anything would be helpful, I'm really at my wits' end on this one.

Hush · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:06:48 PM »

Why are you placing a standard disc plate on the activating hub when you state yourself that the book says the larger disc should go there?
In your photos you have a standard disc sitting on the inner hub, what happens when you replace that with the special larger disc?

Hush · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:10:27 PM »

Yep that's what I'd say was wrong, the "special" larger plate allows the "shifter plate" to fit inside it, try rejigging the plates so you have the standard ones all inside the clutch basket then lastly fit the "special" plate and then the shifter plate, that should work.

bistromath · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:17:56 PM »

Hush: just so we're using the same terminology, the "lifter plate" is #8, and the "clutch center" #3. The "clutch basket" is #1, but the scan is bad so you can't see the number.

If I put the larger friction disk (#5) against the lifter plate (and it does fit just fine), then the clutch pack won't fit into the clutch basket; the problem is shown in the third photo. The clutch basket has tapered tabs, and the larger friction disk has wider tabs that won't let the disk fit all the way inside the basket. Imagine stacking the rest of the clutch pack on top of the disk in the third photo. It won't go. In order to fit, I'd have to put the clutch pack into the clutch hub backwards, with the lifter plate mounting holes facing INTO the motor instead of OUT of it. But that's no good.

In other words, my #4 disks won't sit flat against the lifter plate. I still think my friction disks are a little too small -- maybe they sent me ones for a 400? If someone had a set of 550 friction disks they could measure, that would be awesome and would confirm the problem so I can sleep at night.

steam-powered man · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:29:01 PM »

i've got a 550 stack (but no lifter plate) and can measure the friction discs if you'd like. need OD, ID, thickness and tab width?
bobp

bistromath · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:34:58 PM »

Just need the ID of the standard (not outermost) friction disks. Thanks so much, you're the man.

Hush · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:02:56 PM »

Sorry Bistromath, just checked my manual too and you are right, the "special" friction disc will be the last one coming out of the clutch basket (sorry been working on Suzuki's lately and I'm a bit confused)
Your #8 which to me is the pressure plate, should allow the standard disc to fit right hard up to it.
Wonder if someone fitted a different clutch to your bike at some time?

bryanj · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:28:52 PM »

Parts 3 & 8 are different on the 77/78 models has a PO done a mix-n-match?

camelman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2010, 11:37:43 PM »

Bistromath,

What date was your bike manufactured?

Camelman

Kevin400F · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2010, 04:08:07 AM »

It seems too obvious, but can you compare the new discs to ones that came out of the bike? I'm assuming you must be working on a basket case or something that had been previously disassembled with the prior parts lost/misplaced.

steam-powered man · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2010, 04:08:50 AM »

measured a coupla discs from my 76cb550k donor bike: OD (no tab) = 5.474/5.477 or 139mm

Kevin400F · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2010, 04:35:38 AM »

I have a clutch that I'm pretty certain came out of an early 550 ('74 or '75). The ID of the friction discs is approximately 4.735", which as you can see from the attached photo, fits around the lip on the lifter plate.

steam-powered man · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:51:20 AM »

can confirm ID from my '76550k is 4.74/4.73, or about 120mm

strynboen · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2010, 12:18:09 PM »

   this parts are bayed at david silver ,,to a 1978 model k3..
   orginal honda parts
   spec frik pl 22202-392-000-1 stk
   metal plates 22321-mt3-000-6 stk
   springs 22401-374-000-4 stk
   norn frik plates no number

strynboen · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2010, 12:36:17 PM »

try to build it together vith the old plates..any differens

bistromath · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2010, 01:32:26 PM »

Quote from: Kevin400F on February 23, 2010, 04:35:38 AM

I have a clutch that I'm pretty certain came out of an early 550 ('74 or '75). The ID of the friction discs is approximately 4.735", which as you can see from the attached photo, fits around the lip on the lifter plate.

Well, that makes perfect sense -- mine have an ID of 4.580". So it looks like I have the wrong friction disks after all.

steam-powered man · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2010, 04:17:28 PM »

i have a used set if needed, with plenty of friction mat'l left. am parting out a donor bike, so very inexpensive. can send pics if needed. glad you got it sorted,
bobp

bryanj · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:49:52 PM »

was there a part number on them, they may be 500 ones. Tell dave Silver the inner diameter is wrong for the 550, if he has been supplied wrong he will want to know

Hush · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2010, 01:32:00 AM »

Strynboen, I love you man...no idea what you are saying but your heart is in the right place.

strynboen · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2010, 03:39:04 AM »

ha ha ha...

..anyvay,,ve just drive honda,,world vide..thats the great thing..understanding is sekundery

camelman · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2010, 11:40:44 PM »

Quote from: Hush on February 24, 2010, 01:32:00 AM

Strynboen, I love you man...no idea what you are saying but your heart is in the right place.

+1

bistromath · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2010, 06:56:33 PM »

Well, just when I thought it was safe, I got my replacement friction disks from David Silver.

And they're exactly the same as the last set. 116mm inside diameter.

I'm going to lose my mind! Do they just have a stack of the wrong-sized 550 plates that they keep pulling off and sending me? I asked Mark at DSS to measure them before he shipped them, and he said they measured 120mm. Is the English millimeter smaller than the American millimeter?

strynboen · « **Reply #23 on:** March 06, 2010, 05:59:06 AM »

hey have tjekket mine new plates, from ds,they are alså smaller in diameter,,,but they fits okay anyvay..its only the special plate,,there shud messing 120.mm.others plates vork fine 116 mm...have some pic of mine clutsh..
but have not begining to komplet it yet..så nothing for shure...
... edit .... have testet it dammit it dont fix

strynboen · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2010, 06:00:12 AM »

more,, pic 1and2 are specil..plate..nr 3 pic are normal plates

bistromath · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2010, 09:00:49 AM »

Strynboen,

Does the "normal" disk that sits against the lifter plate (part #8 in the schematic) fit flush against the lifter plate? What is the diameter of the "lip" or ridge on the lifter plate?

Just got this email from DSS:

I have checked our stocks of these plates and they are indeed 116mm.
I have ordered correct plates from Honda to replace your wrong ones .please
just throw the wrong ones away - we do not want them back.
I will measure the new ones before shipping.
Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

strynboen · « **Reply #26 on:** March 06, 2010, 09:19:14 AM »

special plate right under top..that plate are 120 mm.....
huston ve have a problem....

: is it pos 3 or 8..you have put plates on in pic..kan only se the top

bistromath · « **Reply #27 on:** March 06, 2010, 09:38:05 AM »

The special plate goes against part 3. One of the normal plates has to sit against part 8.

strynboen · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2010, 09:50:33 AM »

i must aut in garage to test it..probl have same plates as you

,,

have testet my plates,,same resultat as you..it dont fix..thats vhy the plates not vas in honda bags..theep vietnam stoff--or china..have to kontakt ds..dont think i get any problems vith them...ita a great forum..to get info..thanks bistromate for information it makes it easy for me to get new plates

bistromath · « **Reply #29 on:** March 06, 2010, 12:28:32 PM »

Strynboen, I'm glad to find this thread helped someone else, too. Like I said, DSS is ordering more from Honda. Supposedly these are Honda factory friction disks to begin with, but I guess something got mixed up in the order. We'll see what they ship me next!

E-mail DSS and they should sort you out quickly.

bryanj · « **Reply #30 on:** March 08, 2010, 09:14:08 AM »

Like I said Dave wants to get everything right and does sort problems ASAP but just needs to be told there is a problem first.

It Doesnt surprise me that Honda got it wrong as the plates have been superceeded several times with newer bike one and obviously somebody forgot the inside dia was critical too

bistromath · « **Reply #31 on:** March 08, 2010, 09:28:49 AM »

Guess it shouldn't surprise me that with a stock of thousands of parts for motorcycles that haven't been made in 30 years, some parts occasionally get mixed up. The only part that irks me is that they sent me the same parts twice, after assuring me they were 120mm ID. But all's well that ends well, and if I get the right plates this week I'll be happy as a pig in #$%^.

Plus, if anyone can tell me what clutch these plates are SUPPOSED to be for, I can make up for it by selling the plates on eBay!

strynboen · « **Reply #32 on:** March 08, 2010, 10:07:38 AM »

hope they are for 400 four..i have get a 75 400 f...nice littel mc..

strynboen · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2010, 08:49:48 AM »

got email from dss,,they send new plates,,and i kan keep the vrong ones...great service....its great there is "normal "peapel and not a robot in the other end of line,,,its make this trobbel kvik and happy end..thanks sophie for anser in half auer..after mail send,,,and for understanding my "viking" english....

i faund a lap vith this partsnummer..22201-369-000,,this number are on the vrong plates

bryanj · « **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2010, 09:08:04 AM »

369 would be CB360 twin

bistromath · « **Reply #35 on:** March 10, 2010, 09:09:11 AM »

Quote from: strynboen on March 10, 2010, 08:49:48 AM

for understanding my "viking" english....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA your "viking" English is great.

Quote

i faund a lap vith this partsnummer..22201-369-000,,this number are on the vrong plates

Best I can tell that's a CB360T prefix.

(whoops looks like bryan beat me to it!)

bistromath · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2010, 05:15:55 PM »

All right, I finally got the replacement replacement friction disks in the mail, and they're correct -- or at least five of them are. The last one came in a bag with the SAME PART NUMBER as the other five, but is 1mm thicker. Otherwise identical. I suspect it's a CB750 disk. The batch numbers on the bags are different -- the five correct ones have one batch number, while the incorrect sixth has a different batch number. I was able to use one of the incorrect CB360T disks I got earlier to assemble the clutch, since it's the right thickness and the ID is only critical on the innermost friction disk. I think it'll work fine. But SHEESH!

What a clusterf&@#. Looks like Honda has some serious-ass warehouse QC issues.

News:

Author Topic: 550 clutch reassembly woes UPDATED! (Read 5763 times)