Topic: CB350F Cafe "Gerty"

[Mille44]

So I’ve been following a couple of vintage builds on a couple of forums for the last few weeks and with the rain swamping my riding for even longer, I decided I need something to occupy my time and wallet so I bought this. 
I knew that I wanted to build a café racer and even though the Honda really isn’t the first, so to speak, café racer, it fits in with the European crowd rather well and isn’t going to cost a fortune if I screw something up and have to replace parts, which seem to be readily available. Why the ’73 CB350F, you ask? Well, it’s kinda funny, but when I was in high school, I had a ’74 CB350 Twin that would always abandon me just about half way to nowhere and challenge my walking or hitch hiking abilities.  Never the less, I have fond memories of screaming up and down our street pulling wheelies on that machine.  So, I wanted another one. Now the four cylinder was a by product of a few Benjamin’s burning a hole in my pocket and several justifications to own the 4 were, well they are a bit more rare than the twin, so when I get done with it, it will be worth more (maybe); or everyone has a twin 350 and because I’m such a rebel, I should have the 4 cyl., just to make my life twice as hard...

Anyway, because I’m not really a gear head, except that I can change my own tires and oil and stick some blingage onto my other motorcycles, this is going to be a project to try and teach myself the inner workings of the two wheeled seductresses that will occupy my time.
So, here goes; and if any of you have any suggestions for my endevour to create a café racer out of a 37 year old (exactly as old as I am) vintage (cant believe I just said that) street bike, let me know.

Some of the mods/ upgrades I am considering:

1. Upgrade the front brakes to two a two rotor/ caliper system, and cross drill the rotors.
2. Grind off all of the unnecessary tabs and mounting brackets not needed on the Frame.
3. Have a seat pan/ rear fairing made of sheet metal, similar to the soft tail that is there now, only pretty.
4. Powders coat the frame, the wheels and the hubs.
5. Install stainless steel spokes.
6. Definitely new tires and tubes.
7. Upgrade the front suspension to a CB550.
8. Rebuild the engine if necessary or find a CB400F to rebuild and install instead. Need opinions.
9. Rebuild the carbs, also will need some help.

I’m sure there is more, I just can’t think of it right now.

I will keep updating it with new photos of what I’m doing and where I’m at with the project.

Oh, and beauty must be in the eye of the beholder, because my wife already said she was ugly....   

[Mille44]

Here is what I am thinking for the rear shocks. Pretty expensive...

Steel Trackers w/dual rate (black springs @ $400/pair
Street Trackers w/dual rate (black springs @ $465/pair
Black Trackers w/dual rate (black springs @ $465/pair


http://www.worksperformance.com/html/vintage.html

[Hoosier Daddy]

I'll be right there with you brother, I got my CB350F yesterday and what you have already is way ahead of my bone stock '74. I'll be here watching your progress.

[socalenduro]

nice to see other people who have great taste in picking out the coolest bike on the streets (350f)

[traveler]

Welcome, and thanks for taking the time to post.

Unless you are doing some SERIOUS cornering, or have to have the best available...you can get nice shocks MUCH cheaper than that.

350 Four has it's own list of quirks......seems alot of guys swap in 400 Four engines.

~Joe

[kslrr]

Cool, 2 members working on their 350Fs.  This inspires me to get back to mine in a big way so that we can have a 3-way CB350f cafe' build here.

[slapi01]

nice, another cb350f getting the special treatment.. i sure will be looking at this one.

[Mille44]

Here is what I am thinking for the seat pan and café hump. About $200....
Although these are made out of fiberglass, I would like to find someone to make one out of aluminum. If anyone know who may have the skills, let me know.


Glass from the Past

[Hoosier Daddy]

http://www.roccitycafe.com/store.php but hold on, they ain't cheap. Might wan't to look for a "tinbanger"... guy with leather mallets, shot bags and an english wheel in your area.

[Mille44]

I read a post in 13X WERA Vintage racing forum that using CB750K twin-cam tripple clamps and the less- offset clamps will give more trail- and will work wonderfully on a CB350. Then using CB550F2 forks, the tops of which will be brought up to protrude from the top triple clamp by 1 1/2" to shorten the length to the stock CB350 fork length of 26 1/2", give the CB350 a mean front end.

Since I decided to create an OLD brand new front end on this bike out of CB750 and CB550 parts, the first and most important part arrived a couple of days ago. I have been really excited for them and winning my bids on EBay, its like my B-day!  

Anyway, I received one of the most precious parts of the build, the '79 CB750K dual cam triple clamps (Thanks Ed- jk333) which have 35mm clamps that will fit the 76' CB550F fork tubes that are on their way.

[Mille44]

http://www.roccitycafe.com/store.php but hold on, they ain't cheap. Might wan't to look for a "tinbanger"... guy with leather mallets, shot bags and an english wheel in your area.

Good info, I've looked though all of thier projects, they do some really nice work!
I have a lead on a local guy to do the metal work, but havent contacted him yet as im not 100% sure I know what I want yet and I know its going to be expensive. And, I want to be able to tell him exactly what i want when I get to that point. Some of its still dreamin' at this point...

[Mille44]

So after today the CB350 isnt really a motorcycle anymore. A friend of mine and I pulled the engine out of her this afternoon, so suffice to say her ride-ability is seriously diminished for the time being.

Since I received the front end of the ‘76 CB550F on Friday, and have had the 79 CB750K (dual cam) triple clamps, I decided to tear apart the front end and start mocking-up the new and improved (although vintage) front end.(Why vintage???, because I may decide to race this machine later. Stay tuned...)

When I pulled the original CB350F steering head apart, ball bearings scattered from hell to breakfast, I’ll probably be picking them up for years… So, I couldn’t swap the bearings to the CB750 down tube to see if it would be a direct replacement. My only option is to try and order a new set of bearings before I can decide if further work needs to be done to the triples to make them fit the 350. Wouldn’t you know that when I logged on to All-Balls to see if they were compatible with each other, the ’78 CB750 was the last year listed as being compatible with the 350F. So if anyone knows any trick, let me know.

So, it looks like they are not a direct swap.

Steering stem sizes
CB350F (72-74)
Upper: 26 x 48.5 x 15.2
Lower: 30 x 50 x 14.4

CB750F/K/L (79)
Upper: 26 x 47 x 15
Lower: 26 x 47 x 15

Maybe welding the 350 stem in the 750 triple is going to be the easier way to skin this cat....

Check out this PDF for the conversions (OCR Stem Sizes) from ohiocaferacers .com

[Mille44]

Because I am changing the front end on this bike, I wanted to record the rake/ trail of the original CB350F front end and compare it to the new 750/ 550 that I hope to hybridize. Anyway since I am using this topic as a sort of progress/ history and how-to document; attached is the rake/ trail results for the stock 350F.

[Mille44]

Here is what I have been looking at and scratching my head about for the last hour or so. Its the mocked-up and very loose CB750K triples, CB550F forks and both 350 and 550 calipers. I'm done lookin' at it today and is the end of my progress for this weekend. From what I understand this is truely possible although to take the wheel/ tire off it means taking one of the calipers off.
If anyone has any suggestions here, I would be happy to hear them.

[traveler]

Sean at Roc City did my tank and seat in alloy.

~Joe

[Mille44]

Damn, I cant figure how to add the image w/o the frame and thumbnail size picture... sheesh...

[Hoosier Daddy]

Parts researching paying off, nice to know what parts fit for a OEM upgrade.
Don't fret about the images, I kind of like thumbnails for the way it loads quick and then you can click on it to get detail.

[Zaipai]

Cool build watching with great anticipation.

.: Scott :.

[Mille44]

So a couple of days ago, I went to a friends shop to work on the hybridized triple for ‘Gerty’. I was introduced to TIG welding, which in my opinion is a work of art. First up was the removal of the CB750 steering stem from the original lower triple and inserting the CB350F stem back into the CB750 lower. I decided to do this because if the bearings need to be replaced in the future for one reason or another, special knowledge will not be necessary. Anyway with the steering stem swap completed and re-welded, we decided to start making the CB750 upper triple to look like I want it to. This included removing all of the mounting points for various gages as well as the horns for the handlebars. Since I am going to reuse the clip-ons there is no need to have the bar mounts and shaving them will clean the front end dramatically. Anyway, here are a few shots of the welding process. We got a lot done that night.

[Mille44]

Okay I pulled the swing arm off of the 350F this weekend and took it apart to inspect, clean and get it ready for powder coating.

I have to tell you this, I had a friend take me to look at a small plane he was thinking of buying a couple of years ago and realized how ignorant I was at the technology involved in getting man off the ground and into the air. In short, the only word I could come up with was crude. Here, I thought all of the rocket scientists were at work creating the latest, greatest cutting edge technology to not only make lean, efficient, fast and safe contraptions for us to travel in at 10-40,000 feet off of the ground. Man was I wrong, balsa wood, a bit of aluminum and painted canvas was what I get; all for $250K? WTF? And, hand controlled levers (I’m talkin’ a lever attached to a cable attached to an aileron), to maneuver this beast on the ground and in the air… I liked not knowing, I liked being oblivious!

Well, it’s the same thing with this swing arm and its bearings and lubrication system. You know the thing that keeps the rear end dynamic and following the road, putting all of that HP to the ground, and has a direct correlation to speed, braking and handling; all designed to keep my butt off of the pavement? Right? First, I’ll address that. What GD lubrication system!!! The grease that was in there was hard as a rock (I’m not sure if I’ll ever get it out) and its no wonder, the grease zerk isn’t even standard, can you even put grease through that thing, with a, dare I say, modern grease gun. What the heck Mr. Honda? My old chevy had regular grease zerks... Oh, and here is another nifty thing, I’m not sure if I can get the zerk out to replace it with a new one because its round; not shaped to put a wrench on at all. Great design here boys! thanks fer that!  >:(And the zerk is the least of my worries, these oil impregnated bronze bearings a friend was telling me about? I don’t know what the hell they are supposed to replace. Maybe they are stuck inside the swing arm? Is this another sledge hammer project? Maybe... Hacksaw? Replace the whole works?

Thank goodness this is the worst of the problems I have encountered on the bike so far, at least on the chassis anyway. Below are a few pictures of the components. I have a few questions and will ask in the SOHC/4 Bikes forum, http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68014.msg750897#msg750897"

[wingman]

the grease fittings that Honda used (at least on the c350fs) were push in, Japanese specific types.  I got a 6mm zerk fitting, pulled the Honda fitting out and tapped the hole for the zerk.  Now a regular grease gun works wonders on keeping that area lubed.  I also upgraded to bronze bushings.  While I haven't got my bike out of the living room yet, or even started for that matter, the swingarm does pass all of Hondaman's tests for proper fitment and wear.

[Mille44]

I had a moment of indecision last night on the viability of this project. EBay was calling me one direction, my will and determination were calling me another. I’m happy to say that will and determination won this battle. The war is still ongoing, but the advice I have received from a friend and from the SOHC forums have pulled me from the brink, so to speak. Everything cant go the way you think or want, or it wouldn’t be any fun and/or everyone would be doing it. IT’S A HOBBY! Some people spend their extra cash on the movies or at the bar, I spend it on a 40 year old 350 Honda…  Thanks for delivering clarity again Sal! Also, I am building a steady appreciation for the knowledge base on this forum and the willingness to sped the time to share it with me. Thank you!

[The_Crippler]

Did I miss it?  Where did you get the name "Gerty?"  Title snagged my eye, since one of my dogs is Gertrude - or "Gertie" for short.

[Mille44]

I let my wife pick the name. It involves her in my project a little bit, and when I'm in the shop she knows the name of my "mistress". 

[camelman]

By the way, you just beat me to the punch on buying that bike.  If it wasn't you, then it was going to be me picking it up.

Camelman

[Mille44]

By the way, you just beat me to the punch on buying that bike.  If it wasn't you, then it was going to be me picking it up.

Camelman

Some guys have all the luck....

[Mille44]

An update as to the progress of “Gerty”.

I pulled the swing arm off of Gerty a couple of weekends ago and took it apart to inspect, clean and get it ready for powder coating. What I found was perplexing to me to say the least. Attached are a few pictures for reference.

Needless to say, the Collar (close-up picture) is pitted WAY beyond serviceability. I have been getting advise from various sources (friends) and I was at the point a few days ago to where I thought I had to make a decision of whether or not this thing is worth the money I paid for it or whether its goes on the block for parts and I take my monetary hits and just chalk it up as a learning experience. Although I am still digging that dry hole, I am now looking at the project differently. I quit thinking of this thing as a money pit and look at it as entertainment. When I go spend $40 at the movie theater, do I expect to be able to sell my tickets to someone else later? And, for what I have into them? No. What a dumb friggin’ concept huh? Now to talk my wife into that notion…

Since I am having problems with the restoration of the original swing arm, I was thinking of completely replacing it with a custom made swing arm.

Since I have a friend (when I say friend, I mean FRIEND) that has a machine shop and is willing to take the time and help me make a new swing arm to vintage Bimota specifications so it will be allowed in both the WERA and AHRMA series for vintage racing. We started it on Sunday and within a few hours we had a frame to template the old swingarm to and the pivot made. The only thing that will be stock is the pivot bolt with the grease zerk, although that will be upgraded to a standard one as well. Anyway he is on vacation for a couple of weeks, so I can only dream what the next step will be once he gets back! I had never been around a working lathe before, let alone measuring fitment to the nearest ten-thousandth of an inch was a challenge. My pea brain has a hard time thinking four digits out…. Anyway, I can hardly wait to get back to work on it in a couple of weeks.

In the meantime, I have met a friend of a friend that does metal work. So with a handshake agreement, we are starting to fabricate the bodywork with the use of hammers, sandbags, hardwood stumps, English wheels and planishing hammers. It seems that he has been making good progress on the seat pan and hump. I cant wait to see what the fuel tank and the headlight come out like.

At this point, the headlight is going to be a custom 6” aluminum bucket that will house the speedometer and headlight. Similar to the headlight below.

Acewell 2853 Spedometer

So far, this is what I am thinking about for the tail light. Just because I’m chicken of being pulled over for a light that does not belong on the machine, I took a trip to the CHP office yesterday and they quoted me this:

{QUOTE] 24603. Every motor vehicle that is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall at all times be equipped with stoplamps mounted on the rear as follows:
(a) Every such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more stoplamps.
...
(e) Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured on or after January 1, 1979, shall emit a red light. Stoplamps on vehicles manufactured before January 1, 1979, shall emit a red or yellow light. All stoplamps shall be plainly visible and understandable from a distance of 300 feet to the rear both during normal sunlight and at nighttime, except that stoplamps on a vehicle of a size required to be equipped with clearance lamps shall be visible from a distance of 500 feet during those times.[/QUOTE}

So at this point it looks like I’m going forward with the 1933- 36 Ford tail light with the blue dot center. Although the light is allowed if I can project 300 feet, the illuminated blue dot is not. But, all I need to do is paint the back of the blue portion of the lens and its all good with the local CHiPies! Now to find out how LEDs work!  

[Mille44]

Since I cant figure out how to put pictures anywhere but the bottom of the post , here are the Bimota- type swingarm that a friend and I are building.

And, a link to my swing arm thread.... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68170.0

[The_Crippler]

Hey, there are a number of us looking at the Acewell around here - and I intend to put min in my headlight as well - could you let us know which hookup you use for it, and how well it works?

[Mille44]

Here are a few of the bodywork pictures so far. This is all my design and any comments or suggestions would be extremely helpful...

1) Paper pattern to lay out on the aluminum.
2) All marked up on the aluminum.
3) Shrinking the top and pre bending the seat back.
4) Anealing the bends.
5) Clamping to the jig.

[Mille44]

1) First fitment to the frame. Need to align with the tank...
2)A bit of planishing.
3) Starting to shape the bump/ hump.... Whatever...
4) Shrinking with the anvil.
5) Another fitment on the bike.

[Zaipai]

Wish you lived closer I sure could use your talent with sheetmetal on my bike!! Its sure is shaping up nicely. You have good metal chops man..

.: Scott :.

[Mille44]

I wish I could claim the metal work as mine. But a friend of a friend wanted a project, so I gave him a call....

[Zaipai]

I wish I could claim the metal work as mine. But a friend of a friend wanted a project, so I gave him a call....

Well if you lived closer, you could be the friend of a friend of a friend who wants a project and I have a project I could send him..

Wow, I guess I need more coffee!!!

.: Scott :.

[socalenduro]

I wish I could claim the metal work as mine. But a friend of a friend wanted a project, so I gave him a call....

Well if you lived closer, you could be the friend of a friend of a friend who wants a project and I have a project I could send him..

Wow, I guess I need more coffee!!!

.: Scott :.

or more friends! (with metal working tools)

[cb544]

Awesome build so far- especially that metal work! I hope you let him know about the praise he's been receiving.

Since the first day of spring I've been obsessed with metal working tools... I think it was a special on Jesse James that got me hooked. I researched everything I could, but haven't bought a single hammer for fear of buying crap. Guess I didn't research it that well.

Anyway, keep us posted! If you can, I'd love some more info on your friend's metal working setup, and your garage!



Speaking of which... do we have a garage thread?

[Mille44]

Ha! That’s the first thing I referred to when I met him. Jesse James had one of those episodes that showed him or someone else working on an English wheel and I was interested in seeing how it works. Once I said that, and showed some interest in his hobby, we spent hours talking about what tools do what, where he got them, which ones (like the English Wheel) he built from scratch and that he has self taught himself how to use everything. Needless to say, I'm mighty impressed!

[rebabal]

http://www.roccitycafe.com/store.php but hold on, they ain't cheap.

I have my seat from Sean and the quality is very nice in my opinion.  It's looking like I won't be using the seat after I received it because it's a lot bigger than I anticipated and I ended up getting the wrong "type"... it's too boxy for what I want my bike to be, but all that is just my opinion... the seat is awesome looking.

[Mille44]

http://www.roccitycafe.com/store.php but hold on, they ain't cheap.

I have my seat from Sean and the quality is very nice in my opinion.  It's looking like I won't be using the seat after I received it because it's a lot bigger than I anticipated and I ended up getting the wrong "type"... it's too boxy for what I want my bike to be, but all that is just my opinion... the seat is awesome looking.

I'm with everyone else, that if its not what you want, sell it, or send it back and get something you want. You will never be satisfied with something that you dont like but decide you "can live with"... Thats why its called a project. you just cant go down to the store and buy one....