Author Topic: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems  (Read 6064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« on: March 29, 2010, 10:04:10 pm »
I pulled the swing arm off of the '73 350F this weekend and took it apart to inspect, clean and get it ready for powder coating. What I found is perplexing to me to say the least. Attached are a few pictures for reference, please help me decide how to go about rebuilding this. ~Thanks!

Link to BikeBandit OEM parts list and exploded views.

Couple of questions (All of the pieces that came out of the pivot (except the bronze bearings?):

1) What is the broken (leather? Felt?) o-ring? Did the other one evaporate?
2)The pivot bolt cleaned up pretty good, just some discoloration in the finish, but the collar is pretty pitted, do you think it will need replaced?
3) How do I get the 40 year old grease (hard as a rock) out of the pivot bolt? Does the endcap come off somehow?
4) Can I replace the zerk, or is it there for eternity? DO I need to replace the zerk?
5) I think the swing arm tube has the bronze bearings installed, they are tubes (maybe pressed in) that are about 2 or 2-1/2" long and maybe about 1/8" thick. I cannot seem to drive them out with the use of heat, a socket extension and hammer. Any sugestions?
6) What do I definately need to replace?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 10:07:52 am by Mille44 »

Offline faux fiddy

  • Just becaus I'm the second post on the pissed off thread doesn't mean I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • bike in a box
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 01:55:08 am »
The grease fittings should work fine if you observe that they work. A stuck zirt will usually blow the grease gun off of it when you try to pressurize it.

The pitting is not pretty, but I say it is probably your call, but I wouldn't think it was unsave. Me personally, I would run it or a spare if I had it and it was better. Some people would make sure the used one they were getting for a 12 dollar fleabay buy it now was indeed significantly better. 

How soon do you want to take it apart again? It might outlast you like it is, but it might get sloppy, too
^^^^^^^/l^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/l^^^
. . ______/ l_________________/  l
<'  '  '   '  o .  . . . . . . .................(
 ' VVVVV'   ')))))____>-''''''''''''''''''\  l
' . vvvv_   -              -                 \/

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 08:59:44 am »
I believe there is a felt ring for either side that goes between the washer and the swingarm to seal out dirt.  You could just buy some felt and make another set.

If the collar has much play in it, then you will notice it when you ride.  If it is just minor play, then you'll be fine.  I do recommend getting bronze bushings to replace the factory units though.  It gives a nice handling improvement.

That grease might just blow out with a grease gun.  If not, then you can boil it, soak it in carb dip, spray any solvent (WD40 included) on it and wrap it up in a plastic bag for a day or two, then soak it in simple green, or anything else that eats grease.  It shouldn't be impenetrable.

Yes, you can replace the zerk.  You don't need to unless it is broken though.  There is nothing more annoying than removing zerk fittings because they prefer to break than be removed.

The swing arm came from the factory with copper inserts.  They are okay, but not as good as the bronze units you can buy, and they might be worn.  The copper units have a split in them that you might be able to see if you clean the area up.  You really need to cut the unit in half to remove it.  I did it with a sawzall.  Don't worry too much about a nick or two in the swingarm if you cut it out, but don't cut it yourself if you don't have the "mechanic's touch".

You could reuse it all and just pack it full of grease.  I would at least replace the felt gaskets, and probably the inserts if the collar is loose in them.  If the bolt is really loose in the collar, then I would replace the collar too.  However, all of those parts will still function fine for a daily rider for miles to come.

With regards to reusing parts, let me tell you a little story.

When I was 16, I bought my first car.  It had a blown head gasket (1983 Honda Accord), so I had to fix that before driving it.  It all went back together fine, except for a handful of VERY large bolts.  I put them in my glove box for later.  Well, I was back into that engine a few times over the years, and every time I brought out my spare bolts, and different bolts became the new spares.  I never had a problem with the engine not being bolted together well, and it never fell out of the engine bay.  That was a learning experience for me regarding the robustness of engine design (thank your local mechanical engineer).
The biggest learning experience came during a piston replacement.  I was rebuilding my engine in the middle of winter in IL.  It was cold... damned cold.  I was in a hurry, and ended up gouging one of my crankshaft journals when reinstalling a piston/rod assembly.  The gouge was 8mm long, 4 mm wide, and VERY deep, although it was surrounded with a good sealing surface all around.  I think I took off half a mm of material at the deepest point.  I just wanted the car back together, so I smoothed the edges of the gouge with emory cloth and reassembled.  I never had an issue with the engine after that, and put on another 15k miles before I sold it.
I studied Mechanical Engineering in college and proceeded to design industrial gas turbines for GE (think massive jet engines that make upwards of 300,000 HP).  I created a number of finite element mesh models, and came to realize the robustness of steel.  It is just a very forgiving metal (nickel is a completely different matter).
So, don't sweat the small stuff with these engines.  If it "looks" solid, then it is.  If it looks "non-artistic", then fix it.  If you are racing, then it is a different matter.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline wingman

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 09:30:14 am »
Having posted this else where and in my build thread, the single greatest upgrade I did to my swingarm, besides brass bushings, was to pull out the honda zerk (My 350 was not screwed in, rather it was a push in zerk), tap the hole with a 6mm tap, clean the swingarm bolt and insert a 6mm regular zerk fitting in there.  This will allow you to use a regular grease gun to lube the hell outta the swingarm.  And for swingarms that old, you want to be able to push all that old grease out and get new clean grease in there.

If you soak all of the components in simple green and scrub them out with a nylon brush, along with a blasting out the zerk hole with brake cleaner, you should be fine.  Just remember on reinstall that you are going to use a lot of grease during intallation.  I kept pumping grease into mine until I saw clean grease come out.

I believe the felt rings are still available for Honda and are pretty cheap.  Actually you can still get a lot of parts for these bikes from Honda.
1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 11:38:10 am »
One question about removing the brass bearings. Do they seat into a shoulder in the swing arm tube? How carful do I need to be when cutting it out? I tried heat on the swing arm hoping to drive it out like a regular bearing, but I don’t think it even budged. Because it is brass or bronze, it probably expands more than the steel it is seated into, so my efforts were probably futile? True or false?
Thanks so much for the advise. I was at the point yesterday where I thought I had to make a decision of whether or not this thing is worth the money I paid for it or whether its goes on the block for parts and I take my monetary hits and chalk it up as a learning experience. Although I am still digging a dry hole, I am looking at the project a bit differently this morning. It’s a hobby, not a money making endeavor. I need to quit thinking of this thing as a money pit and look at it as entertainment. Now to talk my wife into that notion…  ;D

Offline bistromath

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 730
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 11:41:14 am »
One question about removing the brass bearings. Do they seat into a shoulder in the swing arm tube? How carful do I need to be when cutting it out? I tried heat on the swing arm hoping to drive it out like a regular bearing, but I don’t think it even budged. Because it is brass or bronze, it probably expands more than the steel it is seated into, so my efforts were probably futile? True or false?
Thanks so much for the advise. I was at the point yesterday where I thought I had to make a decision of whether or not this thing is worth the money I paid for it or whether its goes on the block for parts and I take my monetary hits and chalk it up as a learning experience. Although I am still digging a dry hole, I am looking at the project a bit differently this morning. It’s a hobby, not a money making endeavor. I need to quit thinking of this thing as a money pit and look at it as entertainment. Now to talk my wife into that notion…  ;D


You got the right attitude.  :D

To get the bearings out, it's easiest to get a large hacksaw with a wide mouth, and remove the blade. Insert the blade into the swingarm tube and then reattach it to the hacksaw. Then carefully saw through the bearings. You might have to saw in two places and remove part of the bearing in order to get the rest out.

If you accidentally score up the tube, don't worry about it. That's what the bushings are for.  ;)
'75 CB550F

Offline wingman

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 12:43:55 pm »
When I pulled mine out - I made 2 cuts about 4 degrees apart - heat didn't seem to matter in terms of getting them out.  I went the hacksaw route.  After you make the cuts, take a chisel or drift and go to town on the piece you made the cuts around - it will make sense when you make the cuts.  This will peel the bushing out, almost like a banana, and you will then be able to push the old bushing out with your drift or whatever.  The idea is that the cuts and pushing the banana piece out give the bushing a chance to compress when you are bashing it out.  With room to move, it comes out pretty easily.

1972 CB350F - Who needs TV?  I have a motorcycle in my living room! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67528.0

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 05:05:07 pm »
Mile44, where are you located?
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline Gnat

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 06:12:31 pm »
I liked your comment that its a hobby.

I have a business that I own and it is next door to a businness that was owned by a man in his late 80's. This gent was quite well off and married to a name you would recognize from Wall Street (she was the daughter of one of those names that you would instantly recognize) He was self made and married well. He was an armorer on P-51 with the 8th in WWII. And "Character" doesn't do him justice. He was retired by the time we became friends. He was gruff and few people got along with him due to his opinions. I loved him he was for lack of a word "unique". He was a hobbist.

He collected Mercedes Benz, he had 30 or 40, "Lightening" sailboats (which he was a master at racing). Gold coins, Lionel trains (he had one of the worlds largest collections)
and Gilbert Erector Sets. He drove the cars,he sailed the boats, he ran the trains, and he erected the sets. In other words he played with his toys. Now I'm not any match for him under any circumstance and I was puzzled about some things wth him which I was afraid to ask about. However, one day after a long day at work I soundered over to his place and he cracked open his bar and asked if I'd like a Martini, I said OK, and we had a few and talked about a lot of stuff.

I finally said, Cxxx, you spend an awful lot of money on those cars,boats,trains and coins etc. Your Hobbies are expensive. And he looked me right in the eye and said you are totally wrong. "ALL HOBBIES COST THE SAME"!. I must have looked at him funny because he laughed and said, You put however much you want into them!....and that is a true statement.

You put into it as much as your budget can bare and then some....because you really like this. And it brings you pleasure in a world that pushes you around and in your chosen hobby you are the masterof all you percieve. Ain't that nice now!

Gnat
"Trying to keep the rubber side down"

Offline ksmith0034

  • When I grow up I want to be a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
    • Please subscribe to my motovlog
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2010, 06:34:53 pm »
I liked your comment that its a hobby.

I have a business that I own and it is next door to a businness that was owned by a man in his late 80's. This gent was quite well off and married to a name you would recognize from Wall Street (she was the daughter of one of those names that you would instantly recognize) He was self made and married well. He was an armorer on P-51 with the 8th in WWII. And "Character" doesn't do him justice. He was retired by the time we became friends. He was gruff and few people got along with him due to his opinions. I loved him he was for lack of a word "unique". He was a hobbist.

He collected Mercedes Benz, he had 30 or 40, "Lightening" sailboats (which he was a master at racing). Gold coins, Lionel trains (he had one of the worlds largest collections)
and Gilbert Erector Sets. He drove the cars,he sailed the boats, he ran the trains, and he erected the sets. In other words he played with his toys. Now I'm not any match for him under any circumstance and I was puzzled about some things wth him which I was afraid to ask about. However, one day after a long day at work I soundered over to his place and he cracked open his bar and asked if I'd like a Martini, I said OK, and we had a few and talked about a lot of stuff.

I finally said, Cxxx, you spend an awful lot of money on those cars,boats,trains and coins etc. Your Hobbies are expensive. And he looked me right in the eye and said you are totally wrong. "ALL HOBBIES COST THE SAME"!. I must have looked at him funny because he laughed and said, You put however much you want into them!....and that is a true statement.

You put into it as much as your budget can bare and then some....because you really like this. And it brings you pleasure in a world that pushes you around and in your chosen hobby you are the masterof all you percieve. Ain't that nice now!

Gnat

Gnat, you got some skills!  Nice writing!
It took 10 years but she's finally done!
             ↓   ↓   ↓   ↓   ↓
Stocker 2 Rocker CAFE conversion

My YouTube channel HERE:
https://www.youtube.com/MotoCafeRacer

Offline ksmith0034

  • When I grow up I want to be a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
    • Please subscribe to my motovlog
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 06:36:55 pm »
This is what my original bushings looked like after removal.  The tool was made (and kept) by a machinist friend of mine.
It took 10 years but she's finally done!
             ↓   ↓   ↓   ↓   ↓
Stocker 2 Rocker CAFE conversion

My YouTube channel HERE:
https://www.youtube.com/MotoCafeRacer

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 11:18:43 pm »
This is what my original bushings looked like after removal.  The tool was made (and kept) by a machinist friend of mine.
Oh, man., Now that swing arm is soooooo pretty! Some guys have all the cool tools.... >:(

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 11:19:45 pm »
Mile44, where are you located?


In the San Francisco Bay area...  ???

Offline faux fiddy

  • Just becaus I'm the second post on the pissed off thread doesn't mean I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,812
  • bike in a box
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 02:49:28 am »
This is what my original bushings looked like after removal.  The tool was made (and kept) by a machinist friend of mine.
Oh, man., Now that swing arm is soooooo pretty! Some guys have all the cool tools.... >:(

Would have been nice to have the chrome stock from the factory on all of them.
^^^^^^^/l^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/l^^^
. . ______/ l_________________/  l
<'  '  '   '  o .  . . . . . . .................(
 ' VVVVV'   ')))))____>-''''''''''''''''''\  l
' . vvvv_   -              -                 \/

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,307
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2010, 07:01:02 am »
The bushings, if flanged, are 1.775" long or 1.750" long, depending on the year the 350F was made. If the end caps are separate (like yours) and contain the felt grease washers, the bushings are shorter by 5mm and have no flanges.

The collars (that's the very pitted shaft you're showing) were discontinued by Honda several years ago. Ones from the 400F are the same and will fit. I am planning a build of collars for these bikes when I can raise the capital: I just finished the drawings. I will be building the ones for the 350F/400F and the 750/500/550. Honda still makes the ones for the 750/500/550K bikes, but as long as I'm making a batch, it will make all of them less expensive if I go ahead and make these, too. Honda dropped the collars for all of the "F" bikes in 2007, so they must be converted to the "K" style when rebuilding now.

The original bushings in these bikes were phenolic material. Honda supplies steel bushings today, which destroy even a brand new collar in less than 5000 miles of riding: you cannot run steel-on-steel (check the Mahinery's Handbook, Bearings section) as it is impossible to lubricate this interface. I don't know why honda has done this: my guess is that they probably have subcontracted out for bushings and let the vendor make their own parts.

I just rebuilt a 400F and a 350F arm: at the moment I have no collars left for those arms. If I can get the capital together to get these shafts made, I'll post it here in a couple of weeks. I build the arms up with custom-fitted 841 bronze bushings that I make. The arms are many different shapes now from the years of stress, so it is impossible to make a "generic" bronze bushing that will perform well: the holes are tapered, oval, and often rust-pitted, requiring honing to clean, all of which makes the OD oversize or irregular.  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 09:39:07 am »
Mile44, where are you located?


In the San Francisco Bay area...  ???

Seems like there are a lot of us here.  Let me know if you need any help.  I know my way around these 350Fs pretty well now.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 09:44:32 am »
Mile44, where are you located?


In the San Francisco Bay area...  ???

Seems like there are a lot of us here.  Let me know if you need any help.  I know my way around these 350Fs pretty well now.

Camelman

Definitely! If nothing else we should get together for a ride. Is anyone planning on attending the Easter Morning Ride to the top of Mt. Tam? It will be my 6th consecutive year, rain or shine! :)

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 09:47:37 am »
The bushings, if flanged, are 1.775" long or 1.750" long, depending on the year the 350F was made. If the end caps are separate (like yours) and contain the felt grease washers, the bushings are shorter by 5mm and have no flanges.

The collars (that's the very pitted shaft you're showing) were discontinued by Honda several years ago. Ones from the 400F are the same and will fit. I am planning a build of collars for these bikes when I can raise the capital: I just finished the drawings. I will be building the ones for the 350F/400F and the 750/500/550. Honda still makes the ones for the 750/500/550K bikes, but as long as I'm making a batch, it will make all of them less expensive if I go ahead and make these, too. Honda dropped the collars for all of the "F" bikes in 2007, so they must be converted to the "K" style when rebuilding now.

The original bushings in these bikes were phenolic material. Honda supplies steel bushings today, which destroy even a brand new collar in less than 5000 miles of riding: you cannot run steel-on-steel (check the Mahinery's Handbook, Bearings section) as it is impossible to lubricate this interface. I don't know why honda has done this: my guess is that they probably have subcontracted out for bushings and let the vendor make their own parts.

I just rebuilt a 400F and a 350F arm: at the moment I have no collars left for those arms. If I can get the capital together to get these shafts made, I'll post it here in a couple of weeks. I build the arms up with custom-fitted 841 bronze bushings that I make. The arms are many different shapes now from the years of stress, so it is impossible to make a "generic" bronze bushing that will perform well: the holes are tapered, oval, and often rust-pitted, requiring honing to clean, all of which makes the OD oversize or irregular.  ;)

Hondaman! I knew you existed! :) Thanks for the response.

Just to clarify, I assume the busings are what I have been refering to as the bronze bearings. Are you are talking about part #9 are shown in my last picture in the OP? And are 1.750" long?

Let me ask you this question. A friend of mine has a machine shop and said that he may be able to turn the surface of the collar and make a custom set of bronze bearings/ bushings. Think that would be a successful way to go, or should I try to find a stock setup? If I read your post correctly, it may be difficult to find a OEM collar. Correct?

And if OEM is better, where is the best place to find the bronze bearings/ bushings as well as the collar?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 10:12:11 am by Mille44 »

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,307
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 04:36:48 pm »
The bushings, if flanged, are 1.775" long or 1.750" long, depending on the year the 350F was made. If the end caps are separate (like yours) and contain the felt grease washers, the bushings are shorter by 5mm and have no flanges.

The collars (that's the very pitted shaft you're showing) were discontinued by Honda several years ago. Ones from the 400F are the same and will fit. I am planning a build of collars for these bikes when I can raise the capital: I just finished the drawings. I will be building the ones for the 350F/400F and the 750/500/550. Honda still makes the ones for the 750/500/550K bikes, but as long as I'm making a batch, it will make all of them less expensive if I go ahead and make these, too. Honda dropped the collars for all of the "F" bikes in 2007, so they must be converted to the "K" style when rebuilding now.

The original bushings in these bikes were phenolic material. Honda supplies steel bushings today, which destroy even a brand new collar in less than 5000 miles of riding: you cannot run steel-on-steel (check the Mahinery's Handbook, Bearings section) as it is impossible to lubricate this interface. I don't know why honda has done this: my guess is that they probably have subcontracted out for bushings and let the vendor make their own parts.

I just rebuilt a 400F and a 350F arm: at the moment I have no collars left for those arms. If I can get the capital together to get these shafts made, I'll post it here in a couple of weeks. I build the arms up with custom-fitted 841 bronze bushings that I make. The arms are many different shapes now from the years of stress, so it is impossible to make a "generic" bronze bushing that will perform well: the holes are tapered, oval, and often rust-pitted, requiring honing to clean, all of which makes the OD oversize or irregular.  ;)

Hondaman! I knew you existed! :) Thanks for the response.

Just to clarify, I assume the busings are what I have been refering to as the bronze bearings. Are you are talking about part #9 are shown in my last picture in the OP? And are 1.750" long?

Let me ask you this question. A friend of mine has a machine shop and said that he may be able to turn the surface of the collar and make a custom set of bronze bearings/ bushings. Think that would be a successful way to go, or should I try to find a stock setup? If I read your post correctly, it may be difficult to find a OEM collar. Correct?

And if OEM is better, where is the best place to find the bronze bearings/ bushings as well as the collar?
Yep, that #9 is the bushing. On the arms like the one in that picture, the whole length of the bushing is only 1.550" on most of the arms, because the counterbore inside the arm's tube is pretty short. The working area of the bushing is just a little over 1" long if you use Honda's own parts: that's why I'm going to make slightly different ones. Their collar's bearing area only contacts about 1" of the inside of the bushing. If the bearing area of the collar is lengthened to be 2.0" long, it would fit the 350F and 400F bikes, both. The OD would have to be adjusted down, also, to fit both bikes: the OEM ones were 0.845" OD on the last model of the 350F and the 400F: it was 0.8430" OD on the early 350F, like the picture you show above. The last year of the 350F was like the 400F, with flanged phenolic bushings that replaced the felt washer and the end cap (#10) with a one-piece bushing (which readily absorbed water and rusted things inside.  :-\ ).

The #14 is the felt washer (wool, really). Honda still sells those: order through your local dealer or they will hit you with $18 in shipping.  :o
The hardening on the collars is only about 0.004" to 0.005" deep. If your friend turns it down past those pits you're showing, it will be neither hard, nor large enough OD to reassemble, unless he turns down the whole length of the collar. That's probably not a great idea, as it will significantly weaken the shaft itself. Honda has not made these collars for a long time, but you might find one: I could not in my last search about 3 weeks ago. I accidentally bought a 400F arm from a junkyard that had a brand-new collar inside, so I was able to save that rider's arm I was rebuilding by using that one and making the bushings to fit exactly.

Honda's present offerings (bushings) for this arm are made from steel. I recommend NOT using those, as they will destroy even a new collar, very quickly. Steel-on-steel is not a bearing: it is a file.  ;)

Your friend could possibly make you a collar: the length should be EXACTLY as long as your old one (that is very important) and the OD on the ends should be 0.843", with those bearing ares being 2" long. Grind some grease groove spirals on each end so the grease from that one zerk fitting can slide into the bearing area. E-mail me for pictures of these, or search for the posts I've made about swingarms and you will see them. The inner (middle) section of the collar should be 0.838" diameter.
 :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 04:57:09 pm »
When do you think you might get into the machining of these collars? Are you going to be machining the bronze bushings as well? I may just wait to get the whole setup from you. Whadya think?

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,307
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 11:08:25 pm »
When do you think you might get into the machining of these collars? Are you going to be machining the bronze bushings as well? I may just wait to get the whole setup from you. Whadya think?

While I may end up offering the collars, I don't sell the bushings. The arms are so often distorted (see earlier comments) that I have to cut every bushing to fit. For example, tonight I'm working on 73Nancy's swingarm (CB750K3), and the brake side bushing's hole in the arm is elongated 0.0006" toward the front and back, and the chain side's hole is tapered 0.0012" narrower to the inside. If a straight bushing were pressed into this second hole, it would mushroom on the way in, requiring several hours of honing to let the collar pass through the center again. This would also lead to uneven bearing surfaces on the final collar bearing's fitup. So, the bushing is taper-cut to allow for the narrowing hole. On the brake side, I have to either offset the nearly-finished bushing in the lathe to cut it oval (sometimes they are egg-shaped) or finish-ream it to a round hole after insertion. It's not terribly simple to get a Lifetime Warranty out of them.  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2010, 01:34:14 am »
Mile44, where are you located?


In the San Francisco Bay area...  ???

Seems like there are a lot of us here.  Let me know if you need any help.  I know my way around these 350Fs pretty well now.

Camelman

Definitely! If nothing else we should get together for a ride. Is anyone planning on attending the Easter Morning Ride to the top of Mt. Tam? It will be my 6th consecutive year, rain or shine! :)

Alas, no riding for me for a few more weeks.  I'm recovering from ankle surgery, and my engine is apart while I'm dawdling around on crutches.  I'll be down for a ride in a few weeks.  Speaking of which, do you feel like taking a trip to the Salton Sea in three or four weeks?  Head down the Sierra, then back up highway 1.  1500 miles of twisty amazingness.  ;-)

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline Mille44

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2010, 12:44:57 pm »
Only if I get to ride my couch... ;D

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: 73 350F Rebuilding Swing Arm- having problems
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2010, 12:58:25 pm »
I'm not sure if you noticed, but the air in San Francisco just took on a green, jealous tinge.  ;-)  I'd love to ride that bike on a long trip.  I'm settling on my 350F for this trip though... just to see if it can do it.  It will add to the adventure.

C-man
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)