Author Topic: James' 77 550f.  (Read 48973 times)

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Offline paulages

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #100 on: October 02, 2011, 07:24:20 PM »
James-

I had the same problem with a customer's 550 recently. I rebuilt the carbs (cleaned in the ultrasonic), bench checked the actual fuel levels, no leaks, etc. Test ride the bike, no problems. Left the petcock on all day until she came to pick up the bike, no problems. She rides away? Leaks two blocks later.

I kept the bike, re-tested the carbs on the bench, tilted them this way and that... no leak. She leaves on it again? Leak. We eventually put inline fuel filters on and it solved the problem. Her petcock filter was fine and the tank looked clean as a whistle. I'm convinced 500/550 carbs just like to cry a lot. They're "sensitive."
paul
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1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline Greggo

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #101 on: October 03, 2011, 10:40:27 PM »
I'm convinced 500/550 carbs just like to cry a lot. They're "sensitive."

Ha! That gave me a good laugh!  Mine like to cry after I push it hard on the freeway, or on the straights...usually just about a spoonful of gas. 

Offline paulages

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #102 on: October 04, 2011, 06:36:01 PM »
I'm convinced 500/550 carbs just like to cry a lot. They're "sensitive."

Ha! That gave me a good laugh!  Mine like to cry after I push it hard on the freeway, or on the straights...usually just about a spoonful of gas.

In that case, you might be making the cyclops cry...  ;D
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #103 on: October 05, 2011, 12:39:11 AM »
Handlebars are silly? Look like regular comfortable handle bars to me.
Handlebars are silly? Look like regular comfortable handle bars to me.
Please do not feed the trolls.
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2011, 03:47:12 PM »
Just some photos of steps over the last few weeks.

First time dropping the cylinders on:



First break-in run: towel for a seat, rear brake only, only light functioning is the headlight. You can see the flatter angle of the muffler now that I've cut the first bend at the coupling off. Maybe a bit flatter than I wanted:



This was the angle before cutting that part:



Sort of forgot this oil passage o-ring at first assembly..


Going back and checking carb leaks: float height



Testing float needles and o-rings:




Pulled the oil pan/clutch cover/oil filter after the first few runs. Pan showed some shavings, which were magnetic/ferrous:



And there was a couple mm of sludge in the oil pan's grooves which a magnet also picked up, here wiped on a shirt:



I think the sludge is because of things like some of the non-critical surfaces, like the outside of the rods and crank were still a bit dirty/rusty, though the bearing and pin surfaces were all fine. Paulages's suggestion about the flakes is that they might be from mismatched gears, Since I did switch out the transmission from another bike and frankly I don't remember if I chose the best gears from each transmission or just used the newer one whole.

A quick view: pj1 satin black paint on left, vht satin black paint on right. VHT's satin is similar to the 60% black powdercoat of my frame. Also noted that the VHT chipped more easily than the pj1 and was more obviously affected by a gas spill. I thought the clutch cover would look good black, but I'm returning it to polished now.



Shot of a wheel pre-cleanup and paint:



And the front after. Also, spent a night mounting new tires (just went with bridgestone spitfires, 90's on the 1.85/19" in the front and 110's on the 2.15/18" in the back). Even with the right tools, what a demanding task.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 03:54:23 PM by luceja »
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #105 on: October 07, 2011, 10:47:42 PM »
random cb550f wiring fact: at the junction box, a brown/blue stripe wire needs to connect to the black wires. On my harness both are female. Otherwise the brake light doesn't work.
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline fastbroshi

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #106 on: October 09, 2011, 08:23:28 AM »
Hey, I see a Hawk wheel in the background, care to share?   Another question about rims:  Do those Haiachi's allow you to run tubeless tires?  What about comstars?
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Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #107 on: October 09, 2011, 12:32:41 PM »
Hey, I see a Hawk wheel in the background, care to share?   Another question about rims:  Do those Haiachi's allow you to run tubeless tires?  What about comstars?

It's just the rear off the hawk gt I've got in the garage. It picked up a nail, and the plug fell out of the hole, so off the bike it came. I got to ride the hawk around a little bit yesterday, it's been down because of the nail. What a wonderful bike to ride.

I wasn't sure what you meant by haiachi, but I searched on google, which changed it to hayashi wheels, which definitely bear a resemblance to the black/machined look of these cast shelby-dowd mags - is that a term used to describe that style? Those wheels seem to popular on old datsuns, etc. Cool cars.
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #108 on: October 09, 2011, 01:18:39 PM »
I also put Spitfires on my 550, but no way was I going to try to mount them! I think I paid $50.

Bike is looking good...
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #109 on: October 10, 2011, 12:32:13 PM »
Hey, I see a Hawk wheel in the background, care to share?   Another question about rims:  Do those Haiachi's allow you to run tubeless tires?  What about comstars?

I forgot to mention, I do not think these shelby dowd's are intended for tubeless, but I'm just pulling that from the back of my memory and should not be taken as fact. There's literally nothing written on them. As for comstars, there are tubeless and tube types, it should say on the rim.
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2011, 12:34:17 PM »
I also put Spitfires on my 550, but no way was I going to try to mount them! I think I paid $50.

Bike is looking good...

Thanks! All the 'pretty' stuff will come at the very end, I think the last two things are seat, tank, and covers. Yeah, mounting tires did definitely suck. Any opinion on the spitfires?
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #111 on: October 15, 2011, 01:54:05 PM »
I also put Spitfires on my 550, but no way was I going to try to mount them! I think I paid $50.

Bike is looking good...

Thanks! All the 'pretty' stuff will come at the very end, I think the last two things are seat, tank, and covers. Yeah, mounting tires did definitely suck. Any opinion on the spitfires?

Liked the Spitfires, good quality and reasonably priced. Bought them 'cause of good reviews on this forum. No longer have the 550, so can't comment on longevity.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #112 on: April 18, 2012, 08:47:51 PM »
Haven't posted in my own thread for over 180 days and get the 'old thread' warning. Been working on the bike the whole time, anyhow.



Since the last post:

Switched back to the stock spoked wheels. Mounting a proper rear master cylinder to use the shelby dowd disc rear would be done best by grafting on modern rearsets with an integral master cylinder and welding mounts on the frame for said rearsets. I acquired two basket cb500/4's, so I'll use those wheels correctly on another bike. I mounted metzelers on the stock wheels.

I pulled apart the whole harness, simplified it, updated most of the connections, moved the ignition switch to below the right triple with an aluminum bracket, moved the front brake switch to the master cylinder, mounted an old smaller honda tail light, made a new bracket for the 500/4 guages, made a mini bracket to hold a couple little harley fitment idiot lights (just neutral and oil pressure), relayed the headlights (relays located under the right coil), rigged up some lockhart turn signals, replaced a faulty blinker unit, wired in a hondaman ignition and wrapped the harness back up.



I ditched the supertrapp muffler because the yellowed brushed stainless didn't look right against the good chrome on the headers, and I'd rather use it on my 400f, so I got the mac 550f muffler. I actually don't really like the lines of the mac muffler and the fitment is bad: the slip over the header is unintentionally tapered, tighter by a mm or so at the end, so it doesn't really seal well.. I made a shim out of aluminum housing flashing and it sort of helps. I also don't know what I was supposed to do with the bracket mac included. I made a Z shaped piece of aluminum to connect the muffler back to the frame.



Then, on to jetting. It ran fine for the few miles I tested with the supertrapp, but with the mac, it couldn't even begin to rev, could barely idle, etc with the stock jets/airbox/filter, showing signs or rich at idle and lean above that (?). I bought a jet kit and a set of dime city stacks and started to experiment. I decided to start rich and lean it out, so I put in the biggest mains I had (130's) and and the velocity stacks, which I wasn't really planning on using on this bike, and it ran great... for about 3 miles.

It bogged and died, and I pulled over and saw the paint blistering and yellowing on the head at the end of the head. It cooled off and limped home and it turns out something got into one of the outside camshaft journals and the end of the camshaft was a molten mess of steel and aluminum. The head, valve cover, camshaft, and some of the rockers were toast. I'll be honest, I think I should have listened to all the people who said to not use glass. I'm guessing some didn't get cleaned out of the oil passage beneath that journal. I don't think it was a clog in the oil jet, since the inner journals were fine. Lesson learned.



Anyway, I have some other heads/valve covers/camshafts, so I had another head surfaced/valves ground, prepped it for painting, and once it's painted and baked, the motor will go back in the frame and we'll see what breaks next.



Meanwhile, I layed the fiberglass for a seatpan today, which was something I was looking forward to doing. I used some tubing to make ridges for stiffness and to center the foam. I didn't put the ridges on the edges because I wanted that to be a flat surface along the frame. The goal here was a seatpan that really confirmed exactly to the frame and followed it's lines without being quite so big as the stock seat. I bought a cable operated seat latch which will be mounted in the front, with a hinge welded to the steel brace I made that goes across the two holes at the ends of the back of the frame. I'm tempted to use a 500/4 tank I have, being thinner and would look more sensible with the thinner-than-stock seat.

turning the frame into a plug:


aluminum tape:






oh, and polished the clutch cover. which reminds me, the damned clutch was slipping when it was a runner.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 09:14:30 PM by luceja »
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #113 on: April 19, 2012, 05:25:27 AM »
Seat pan looks nice! Keep updating progress on that seat.
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Offline OneWheelDrive

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #114 on: April 19, 2012, 08:50:34 AM »
Subscribed for seat progress :-D
1975 CB550 cafe
1971 CB500 stocker
2008 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S *sold*
1973 CB350F *sold*
1975 CB550K Project "Keeper" *sold*
2010 Ducati Monster S4RS *sold*
1976 CB360T *sold*
1974 CB550K *sold*
1973 CB750K *sold*
1978 CB550K *sold*
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Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2012, 02:11:12 PM »
So long, stupid story short I ended up splitting the cases AGAIN... which was an awfully good thing because I found the culprit for the ruined head... a little wad of paper towel behind the right oil plug under the crank.. considering how meticulously clean everything else was, it's ironic that I left something as big as a wad of towel in there. I probably put it there to stop dripping while I worked on the cases and just put the plug back in without remembering the towel was in there.



best way to put the motor in the frame, so far: put motor on milk crate to the right of the bike, use a jack to raise a piece of wood into place so you just move the motor onto the wood, not directly onto the frame, and then use the jack valve to lower the motor into position. Super easy.



Assembly...



ignition switch relocation..



First startup caught instantly and has run great with no trouble yet. I was super happy about first startup.



and took it on it's first shakedown run where it didn't explode...



runs great ... so happy with it so far. I mocked up some foam and taped some leather onto the seatpan to have something to ride around on. I see why people don't use just memory foam for motorcycle seats, it's like a rock. For the people interested in the seat, I'll likely redo it to make it slightly wider and document that for everyone.

I used 130 mains today but I don't imagine they are correct, though it's running and pulling great. I'll do some coarse jetting on the road and hopefully get dyno time in the end.

Also, I'm rather happy with how the mac muffler sounds. Not too loud, but sounds rather mean.



Unfortunately I did a poor job mounting the front tire, it's off center and bounces, so not entirely rideable yet.







« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:15:01 PM by luceja »
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2012, 06:41:33 PM »
As a small note, knocked it down to 120 mains (38 pilots, stock needle/position/ float height) and it absolutely roars. I can't believe how hard it pulls at wot. It's more responsive even at lower throttle than my nt650 twin and pulls nearly the same at wot; it makes me realize that my 400f isn't even close to being properly jetted. The plugs are definitely a little sooty, starting to show some brown on the ground electrode now with the 120's. I'll try 115, then 110. I mean, it's just a muffler and stacks, I can't imagine the mains need to be that much bigger than stock.
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline Greggo

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #117 on: May 03, 2012, 09:15:49 PM »
Hey Luceja, wanna sell a set of gauges off one of those 500/4's?  Looking for a set of the small gauges, with one light per gauge if you've got 'em.

Thx, and the bike is looking HOT!

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #118 on: May 03, 2012, 11:50:10 PM »
Unfortunately, I've already pirated the only pair of 500 gauges I had for the the 550f. I've got lots of big crusty 550 and 750 type units to spare. Thanks for the complement. I've been zipping around town on it and absolutely adore it, it''s a blast. It's gonna be all dirty before I even finish it!
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #119 on: May 08, 2012, 11:49:11 AM »
Here, I'll post a riddle:



and here's the hint:



'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline OneWheelDrive

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #120 on: May 08, 2012, 01:10:49 PM »
Uh-oh, that looks quite catastrophic...
1975 CB550 cafe
1971 CB500 stocker
2008 Ducati Hypermotard 1100S *sold*
1973 CB350F *sold*
1975 CB550K Project "Keeper" *sold*
2010 Ducati Monster S4RS *sold*
1976 CB360T *sold*
1974 CB550K *sold*
1973 CB750K *sold*
1978 CB550K *sold*
2007 Vespa LX150 *sold*

Offline knowsnothing

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #121 on: May 08, 2012, 01:35:20 PM »
....that is a lot of teeth that have been liberated.....how the.....what the.....
1978 CB750k Green - 811 engine
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Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #122 on: May 09, 2012, 09:48:18 AM »
I was so very much hoping someone would solve the riddle. In the second photo, you can see that there's no retaining plate covering the fork rod (what you can't see is that retaining plate is installed backwards, so it's holding the shift drum in place, but not the fork rod) and that the fork rod has backed out a little... which dropped a fork, which is why there's a whole fork in the oilpan. Most of the transmission, the starter clutch, the primary chain and possibly the crank have to be scrapped.

I discovered this far from home, when first gear got 'stuck' (the bike would move about a foot from stop and then it the rear would lock just like the brake was applied) and second would vanish if I came down from third, but would appear again coming up from first. I should have just stopped the bike and put my thumb out, but there were no strange noises, and all other gears were fine, so I was just trying to get the thing home when I brought it out of second into third and the rear wheel locked up, luckily on a straight. You could hear for that one moment of running as I brought it to a stop how much mayhem was going on in the motor- as if it was full of marbles.

Pulled the motor again and split the cases for the 5th? 6th? time. If it was just the transmission, I could leave the top end intact and swap out the gears, but the primary chain has significant damage so I have to pull the  top end apart to get it and the crank out. The crank has some markings on the teeth but I haven't seen any 'damaged' teeth - it doesn't appear any metal got between the crank and the primary, it seems that the distorted primary just took a few laps around the crank and scuffed the teeth. Hopefully... because I have lots of gears and primary chains, but that's my best crank.

I'll just put it straight - this is the kind of think (blowing up the motor twice due to stupid mistakes) that should probably send you packing for a new hobby, but the whole goddamn point of building a bike, to me, is a test of will power. You can just buy a nice bike. To completely rebuild one yourself isn't so easy. I guess the lesson I need to learn is to develop a less rushed mindset... both of these mistakes were from rushing. I knew how that retaining plate was supposed to go (I got it right before). Just need to learn to slow down to a good pace.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 09:52:43 AM by luceja »
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.

Offline jinx2350

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #123 on: May 09, 2012, 10:51:28 AM »
Hey luceja,

I've got a couple of 550 parts bikes here in Portland. 74 and 76.  I'd be happy to part with the pair of them or have you come take a look for parts.  one is pretty rough...heads are off.  The other is so/so, with valve cover off.  Both are in frames without tanks or seats or bars.  No telling how long they've been sitting, but I'm local and price is flexible.  Maybe even willing to trade for help with my own bike one day.  Send a PM if you're interested.

'77 CB550 - Dirty Gold, sold in 2014
'79 CB650 - Mostly original, doing a bit of a refresh right now.

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Offline luceja

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Re: James' 77 550f.
« Reply #124 on: May 09, 2012, 10:57:38 AM »
Hey luceja,

I've got a couple of 550 parts bikes here in Portland. 74 and 76.  I'd be happy to part with the pair of them or have you come take a look for parts.  one is pretty rough...heads are off.  The other is so/so, with valve cover off.  Both are in frames without tanks or seats or bars.  No telling how long they've been sitting, but I'm local and price is flexible.  Maybe even willing to trade for help with my own bike one day.  Send a PM if you're interested.



Hey,
I'd love to meet up to see how we can help each other or just shoot the crap about bikes. I'll send a PM with my info. Thanks for reaching out!
'75 cb400f, '77 cb550f , CB160 road racer, '88 Hawk GT track bike, FZR400 race bike, and a bunch of old hondas in boxes.