Topic: Coupla questions. Tiny pots and British iron.

[GroovieGhoulie]

I had a few thoughts banging around my head the past few days and figure you guys can hlep me out:

1. What happened to the 350 class?  I was reading some old road tests of the CB350F and they stated that the 350 class was the most popular in America at the time.  Even Harley had that Italian-built 350 single.  So what happened?  How come the smallest bikes I see from the Japanese now (and most of the Europeans) are 600s?  Even the vaunted half-liter class is nearly devoid of modern examples.  I know that companies are putting out sub-600cc Enduros and dirtbikes, but I mean what happened to the "regular" small-displacement singles and twins?

2. Why do British bikes have the gear change on the right and the brake on the left?  I've seen lots of older Britbikes with this setup and wondered about it.

[Bob Wessner]

Why do British bikes have the gear change on the right and the brake on the left?

Brits seem to have this odd left/right thing on several matters. 

[Sam Green Racing]

Watch it Wessner








































 

[Glenn Stauffer]

The 350 class bike seems to have been replaced by the 250cc class these days.  All of the Japanese makes have 250's in the line.

I'm sure the 250cc class aren't the big sellers.  From what I saw at the DC motorcycle show, people want big bikes.  I guess a big bike helps when you're doing battle with the SUV tanks that crowd the highways these days.

[GroovieGhoulie]

Are those 250s Enduros or are they proper naked streetbikes?  most of the small-displacement bikes I see are Enduros.

[SteveD CB500F]

2. Why do British bikes have the gear change on the right and the brake on the left?  I've seen lots of older Britbikes with this setup and wondered about it.

It was the Japs who were different!

Now, 30 years later, people ask "why were the Brits different ?"

[GroovieGhoulie]

Question for our British members:

Is/Was the term "Pedal Commencer" the British term for the kickstarter?

[Teach]

I think that the smaller displacement bikes went away with the 2-stroke.

[GroovieGhoulie]

I think that the smaller displacement bikes went away with the 2-stroke.

That's another point.  Why did the two strokes go away?

[Japbikemike]

I think that the smaller displacement bikes went away with the 2-stroke.

That's another point.  Why did the two strokes go away?

Emissions....a tad on the smokey side.

[turtle]

I'm not sure how things are in the US. Here in Australia (and New Zealand), newly licensed riders are restricted to 250cc for their first year's riding (unless they have held a car licence for 3 years and do a riding course). For most, as soon as they are eligible, they want a bigger more powerful bike. For that reason, 250s are big sellers and then there seems to be a big jump in cc rating.

[SteveD CB500F]

Question for our British members:

Is/Was the term "Pedal Commencer" the British term for the kickstarter?

Never heard of it, Groovie.

[Jim Shea]

I wonder if the old bikes had the gear change on the right because a lot of the early bikes had sidecars, which were on the left side of the bike??

[oldbiker]

Never heard of pedal commencer, but I once had a Jap camera whose instruction leaflet told me to "Get into the subject through the viewfinder" and I wasted a whole day trying to find a curvy Babe.

[dusterdude]

I wonder if the old bikes had the gear change on the right because a lot of the early bikes had sidecars, which were on the left side of the bike??

not too sure about the brits but,harley-davidson did it on the sportster because it was designed for circle track racing and the left side shift would interfere with the ground in the turns.

[Uncle Ernie]

Times change. I still remember parking my BMW R60 and a overheard a man whisper to his son, "Now there's a big one..."  I think, though, that there is a sub-culture that is turning the other way- at least around here.  Guys are turning up with vintage Ducs, Guzzis, and Jap bikes that are small- and having a blast.  One problem here in the 'States is that a 250 costs the manufacturer about the same to make as it does a bigger bike, but Americans think they should cost a lot less.  ?
From what I understand, Europeans take more pride in the skill of motoring, whereas we "Yanks", well- yanks seems to be an apt description there, too, come to think of it.   
I believe a pedal commencer is your preferred kick-start leg/foot. I'd like to see how it was used- I love arcane stuff like that. (Soon to be a suitable adjective for me, I fear!)

[Glenn Stauffer]

Are those 250s Enduros or are they proper naked streetbikes?  most of the small-displacement bikes I see are Enduros.

Street bikes.  Kawasaki even sells a Ninja 250 sport bike which looks to have something of a following.

--Glenn

[martini]

Bigger = Better, no? I have a 72 CB350 Twin that is an absolute hoot to ride but not many bikers take me seriously when I pull up to a light next to them.

[Teach]

I wonder if the old bikes had the gear change on the right because a lot of the early bikes had sidecars, which were on the left side of the bike??

not too sure about the brits but,harley-davidson did it on the sportster because it was designed for circle track racing and the left side shift would interfere with the ground in the turns.

I read a while back that the early Sportsters had right side shift 'cause the British bikes they were built to compete with had right side shift.

[SteveD CB500F]

I've seen a Kawasaki 4 cylinder 250 (modern) at a bike meet in UK (last summer)

It had something else (can't remember what) on the tank but Kawasaki cast into the cases!

[BobbyR]

In the US we have no restriction on CCs when you get a license. Some States may not yet have a License requirement. It is important to for our friends overseas to remember that we are 50 States and each State has some autonomy in certain areas of the law. That autonomy is  being whittled away somewhat. The only reason I am allowed to drive outside NY is that the other 50 States have agreed to honor my license and registration up to point. A 15 year old can drive a car in Fla, but their license is not valid in NY. You can get a License in most of NY at 16, but it is not valid in New York City until you are 18 unless you pass a special course. Somehow it does work, we have been getting by for a couple of hundred years.

[loonymoon]

The 350 class bike seems to have been replaced by the 250cc class these days.  All of the Japanese makes have 250's in the line.

I'm sure the 250cc class aren't the big sellers.  From what I saw at the DC motorcycle show, people want big bikes.  I guess a big bike helps when you're doing battle with the SUV tanks that crowd the highways these days.

In the UK the biggest 2 wheeled sellers in the April 2006 top ten were all sports bikes of 600cc+.  Except place 6 which went to The BMW GS1200 and Places 8 9 and 10 are all 100 cc or 125's.

http://www.motorcycletrader.net/Display_PictureByOBJID.asp?OBJ_ID=41631

I'm quite surprised as I would have thought the biggest sellers would ahve been scooters of under 100cc as there seems to be so many scooting kids around these days with Aprilias and Italjets and the like.

I;ve just become a member of the scooter brigade myself as I have acquired a Yamaha Majesty 250 for commuting - brilliant machine as comfy as an armchair on wheels an 70mpg with a top speed of 75mph+, plenty fast enough for the motorway at rushhour!!

It's a shame there aren't more bikes in the <500cc, > 200cc displacement as that's the kind of bike I'd like. It's even getting hard to get a 500cc these days. - SURELY when fossil fuel is SO expensive (currently 96 PENCE+ a LITRE) in the Uk at the moment people should be looking at smaller capacity machines - surely a supersports 400cc is just as much fun as a larger cap bike...? Lighter - more flickable...? 

[dusterdude]

I wonder if the old bikes had the gear change on the right because a lot of the early bikes had sidecars, which were on the left side of the bike??

not too sure about the brits but,harley-davidson did it on the sportster because it was designed for circle track racing and the left side shift would interfere with the ground in the turns.

I read a while back that the early Sportsters had right side shift 'cause the British bikes they were built to compete with had right side shift.

true,but remember the brit bikes were already running flattrack here and kicking ass too.

[BobbyR]

I wonder if the old bikes had the gear change on the right because a lot of the early bikes had sidecars, which were on the left side of the bike??

not too sure about the brits but,harley-davidson did it on the sportster because it was designed for circle track racing and the left side shift would interfere with the ground in the turns.

I read a while back that the early Sportsters had right side shift 'cause the British bikes they were built to compete with had right side shift.

true,but remember the brit bikes were already running flattrack here and kicking ass too.

I had a Ducati which I raced with right hand shift. Learned to ride on it, had a hell of a time making the transistion.
Small displacement bikes don't do well on American roads. I still have a KZ440, great from 0-60 after that it has very little.

[robbiec]

I believe a pedal commencer is your preferred kick-start leg/foot. I'd like to see how it was used- I love arcane stuff like that. (Soon to be a suitable adjective for me, I fear!)

 , I just scanned in an old Norton 16H Maintenance Manual for a friend that references the "sparking plug" and "positive gear control". I have to say, it was a hoot to see him ride around on my brothers Honda CT90, seeing that the shifter is on the left and it has an automatic clutch. 

[oldbiker]

Maybe it's to do with the camber of the road. We drive on the left so it was natural when stopping at lights to put down our left foot to steady us. This meant that the right foot gear lever was free to go into gear at the re-start. In the States driving on the right the opposite applied. Just a theory.

[Raul CB750K1]

In Spain, new licenses drivers are restricted to 250 cc  the first two years. They are big sellers, and pretty convenient in big, jammed cities. I have one and I am very satisfied with it. Furthermore, bikes under 250cc are epempt to pay purchase taxes. Not surprisingly, since last year the biggest sellers are 125 cc, as car drivers with three years experience can drive them without specific bike licence.

Talking about bikes, I got my Tennessee motorcycle license riding a Harley V-Rod. I rented it for the day with my International driving license and went to the driving license station to get the licence. No restriction on capacity or power.

There was a time here when 400cc became popular, but they are not built new anymore. For just a little more weight people rather like -I would- a 500 cc or a 600 cc.

Talking about controls, Indian and H-D had the throttle on the foot if I'm not wrong. The reason? Police bodies asked to have the controls arranged in such a way that an agent could use his handgun while chasing a suspect.


Raul

[dusterdude]

i dont recall any harleys having foot throttles,however i do know some indians had left hand throttle and right hand shift.

[Raul CB750K1]

i dont recall any harleys having foot throttles,however i do know some indians had left hand throttle and right hand shift.

You may be right; I don't recall exactly what the layout was.


Raul

[oldbiker]

Didn't the early Indians have a foot clutch?

[dusterdude]

oldbiker,i know at least one indian model had right hand tank shift.i dont recall if it was the chief or not tho.

[dusterdude]

here is a 1947 chief.