Author Topic: Dialing in my 836  (Read 1922 times)

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Offline Bill K

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Dialing in my 836
« on: June 15, 2010, 05:39:28 AM »
 I've been working on getting my engine running as good as possible since the rebuild 836 big bore. I've got about 400 miles on it so far. What I've got: 836, 63a Webcam, springs, mild head work. I'm running stock air box, 4 to 2 exhaust opened up a little but not wide open.
  Carburetion: stock carbs, needles shimed, fuels mix screws out 1 1/2 turns, 120 mains. Cleaned and recleaned, pulled pilots etc. Stock Ignition
   The bike runs good over all, seems to run cooler sence I shimed those needles. And my plugs look good now as well. What is happening is I get a light "sputter" or "mis" when I when I roll on and off the throttle between say 5 and 7k rpms. Not real bad just enough to be anoying. 
  I HAVE NOT synced theses carbs yet only because I've spent every dime in this motor and have yet to get the vac. gauges. Would lack of sync cause this sputter, mis ? At what rpm, throttle position does the main jet start to work? I've read people running 120 mains with a 836 so I'm hoping thats I'm ok there.
   Any input, what you'r running in your 836 would be greatly appreciated.

                                                                        Thanks
                                                                              Bill K               

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Dialing in my 836
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 06:28:08 AM »
This comment presumes 2 things:
1. that your ignition is in excellent condition, firing that very rich mixture, and that you have at least X24ES-U plugs, as the D8EA will not cut it at the 12.5:1 A/F ratios you are now running...
2. You are NOT using Keyster parts in your carbs.

It sounds like you are going through a transition zone where it's going from too rich to about right in the mix. Chances are, the combination of air screws WAY too far out (should be at 7/8 to 1-1/8 turns, regardless of bore size) and needles shimmed above the 5th notch are making it impossible to maintain that very rich mixture to WOT settings.

My suggestions (other tan not using Keyster parts, which has been posted to death):
1. Most important: vacuum leaks in the carb boots. If they are hard, get new ones or soak them in a wintergreen and xylol mixture for a few days until they soften up again. Once they are hard, no amount of clamping force will seal them.
2. Turn the air screws back to 1 turn.
3. Put the needles back into the clips, starting in the middle position.
4. Go to a 115 mainjet.

Just because the engine was bored does not mean it has to be richened up to run right. Normally going to 836cc involves little more than boring and reassembling, so long as the quench band was added in the head to control the increased compression. Barring that mod, rasing the mainjet from the typical 110 or 105 stock size found on most 750s, up to about 115, is plenty. If the plugs were still white after that, something else is amiss, like too much spark advance, too much vacuum leakage, or poor fuel delivery from incorrectly set float bowls.

The latter is a Keyster trait, as are the problems with their needles, BTW...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline eurban

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Re: Dialing in my 836
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 01:37:00 PM »
Well based on his comment that he shimmed the main jet needles and that he "pulled" the (pressed in) pilots  I presume that he is running a set of 78 F or K PD carbs.  1.5 to 1.75 turns on the idle mixture screw (IMS) is a pretty good (stock baseline) starting point.  Stock mains for the PDs range between 105 and 115 so the 120s might be a bit much but with the opened 4-2 I'm not so sure. . . .First off, make sure that your accelerator pump is functioning correctly by removing the air box and observing whether or not the nozzles are squirting fuel when you whack open the throttle.  Also make sure as Hondaman says that your carb boots are good go.  Assuming all systems are good to go (ignition too), rather than observing the rpm for the sputtering observe the throttle position when the stumbling is occuring (1/4,1/2,3/4 WOT etc)  Mark the throttle and switch housing with blue tape and pencil marks.  You can apply some choke during the sputtering to see if your improve (you are lean) or make things worse (you are rich).  Now that you know the throttle position you can make an educated guess at what carb system needs adjustment. Remember that the mains are only dominating the mixture at 3/4 plus positions.  Have fun!

PS I run the colder D9EAs with my high compression (10.25-1) 836 wiesco big bore and have the ignition just a bit less advanced. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 01:40:15 PM by eurban »

Offline Bill K

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Re: Dialing in my 836
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 02:54:55 PM »
 Sorry I was'nt awake yet when posting this morning. I've got 78K with the PD carbs. Thanks for the help so far. Can I use WD40 to check for air leaks? Hate to spray carb cleaner and get it in my fresh paint. I may be nit-picking but I wan't it right. Eurban, what mains are you running ?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Dialing in my 836
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 03:16:53 PM »
Well based on his comment that he shimmed the main jet needles and that he "pulled" the (pressed in) pilots  I presume that he is running a set of 78 F or K PD carbs.  1.5 to 1.75 turns on the idle mixture screw (IMS) is a pretty good (stock baseline) starting point.  Stock mains for the PDs range between 105 and 115 so the 120s might be a bit much but with the opened 4-2 I'm not so sure. . . .First off, make sure that your accelerator pump is functioning correctly by removing the air box and observing whether or not the nozzles are squirting fuel when you whack open the throttle.  Also make sure as Hondaman says that your carb boots are good go.  Assuming all systems are good to go (ignition too), rather than observing the rpm for the sputtering observe the throttle position when the stumbling is occuring (1/4,1/2,3/4 WOT etc)  Mark the throttle and switch housing with blue tape and pencil marks.  You can apply some choke during the sputtering to see if your improve (you are lean) or make things worse (you are rich).  Now that you know the throttle position you can make an educated guess at what carb system needs adjustment. Remember that the mains are only dominating the mixture at 3/4 plus positions.  Have fun!

PS I run the colder D9EAs with my high compression (10.25-1) 836 wiesco big bore and have the ignition just a bit less advanced. 

Ah, good catch EU: I just came from a 'session' with another rider who was doing these things with his K3 carbs...and had 2 cracked carb hoses.  :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline eurban

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Re: Dialing in my 836
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 05:24:02 AM »
Sorry I was'nt awake yet when posting this morning. I've got 78K with the PD carbs. Thanks for the help so far. Can I use WD40 to check for air leaks? Hate to spray carb cleaner and get it in my fresh paint. I may be nit-picking but I wan't it right. Eurban, what mains are you running ?

I run 125 mains with the main jet needle clip position set one notch richer than stock (for a 77K) and have the stock #35 pilots set at around 1 turn out from seated.  I run the wiseco 836 with a 41a webcam, stock 4-4 exhaust and dual "pod" type filters with integrated velocity stacks.  I also run a DYNA III igntion with 3 ohm dyna coils powered through a relay. The 125s mains are probably 1 step too rich but The D9 plugs don't foul even in very cold weather.