Author Topic: clutch problem, maybe transmission? (Read 7531 times)

laser145 · « **on:** July 27, 2010, 04:49:11 PM »

my 750 K6 has been running pretty well (besides a charging issue) but I think it may not be quite right...

Today, after messing with my regulator and rectifier, I jumped on the bike to try and ride around the block. It idles nicely around 1200 rpm, revs up when I give it throttle... When I pull the clutch in, shift into 1st gear, hen try to accelerate away...stall...

It's as if I'm trying to start from a dead stop in 5th gear...I give it more throttle, let off the clutch...stall...

It wasn't doing this the other day, but I've been witnessing some sticky shifting making me believe my clutch needs work.

Will the clutch cause a stall like this?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2010, 05:48:59 PM »

Do you have a frozen brake maybe?

laser145 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2010, 05:51:58 PM »

No, it's not the brake. I rebuilt it recently.

The bike rolls freely when in neutral, gives resistance when in gear and clutch is engaged (handle not pulled in).

I did a few searches on the forum and saw some people talking about clutch plates sticking together. I thought my bike has had a rattle for some time now... was going to adjust the cam chain this weekend, but now I can't get her to move.

laser145 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2010, 07:49:02 AM »

Bump.

A friend suggested I try to start the bike moving in 2nd gear... if it's the clutch then it will still stall... if it drives off then maybe my problem is in the tranny?

Any other ways to test for a clutch problem? How can I determine if the plates are stuck before I open it up?

Cheers

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2010, 03:19:07 PM »

Put 'er in neutral and try to roll 'er.

laser145 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2010, 03:28:19 PM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 28, 2010, 03:19:07 PM

Put 'er in neutral and try to roll 'er.

In neutral she rolls just fine...I just pushed her to the other side of the street no problem.

laser145 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2010, 06:43:34 AM »

Ok, tried a few things last night...

I can't get the bike to move more than a couple of inches in either first or second gear...

Also, when the bike is off, it rolls freely ~~in gear~~ or neutral...

Clutch, transmission?

EDIT: It does not roll freely in gear.

laser145 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 29, 2010, 10:12:36 AM »

After some research, I guess I'm going to do an oil change with 20w50 oil...then let the bike warm up, and the rear wheel spin a bit(if I can get it off the ground, no center stand)...

Then I'll try to drive it again.

Anyone have thoughts?

Silverback · « **Reply #8 on:** July 29, 2010, 10:46:20 AM »

I had a motor that had the sticky clutch plates, even after removing, cleaning and oil changes. If it sat overnight, they would stick. I used a zip tie on the lever to keep the clutch engaged overnight (Not a good long term solution). To get them unstuck, I would put it in gear (not running), hold in the clutch lever and begin pushing it around the driveway. Took me forever the first time, but became easier with time.

Edit:
Just read that your bike rolls while in gear (Lever pulled?). Not applicable to your problem. Can you make the rear wheel spin using the kick starter while in gear? This is easier to do if you pull the plugs.

laser145 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 29, 2010, 11:08:53 AM »

Quote from: Silverback on July 29, 2010, 10:46:20 AM

Just read that your bike rolls while in gear (Lever pulled?). Not applicable to your problem. Can you make the rear wheel spin using the kick starter while in gear? This is easier to do if you pull the plugs.

It rolls with or without the lever pulled while in gear... no resistance.

I'll try to make the rear spin with the kickstart tonight... but I have no center stand, I'll have to rig a way to jack up the bike.

Cheers

Silverback · « **Reply #10 on:** July 29, 2010, 11:27:35 AM »

Quote from: laser145 on July 29, 2010, 11:08:53 AM

It rolls with or without the lever pulled while in gear... no resistance.

Cheers

If it is rolling freely while in gear (without the lever pulled), there is a mechanical issue that will more than likely require inspection.

You had said this in an earlier post? I'm a little confused.

Quote from: laser145 on July 27, 2010, 05:51:58 PM

No, it's not the brake. I rebuilt it recently.

The bike rolls freely when in neutral, gives resistance when in gear and clutch is engaged (handle not pulled in).

I did a few searches on the forum and saw some people talking about clutch plates sticking together. I thought my bike has had a rattle for some time now... was going to adjust the cam chain this weekend, but now I can't get her to move.

Rereading your first post, did you by chance mess with any wiring from the clutch/neutral safety feature? Could be as simple as an ungrounded neutral wire/switch.

laser145 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 29, 2010, 11:32:49 AM »

I've been messing with the wiring recently to flush out a charging system problem...

In this picture... in addition to undoing all the wires to the regulator and rectifier, I also unplugged the harness all the way on the left(the one zip tied to the frame near the pods).

I plugged it back in...I think

Where is this neutral wire switch?

Silverback · « **Reply #12 on:** July 29, 2010, 12:00:02 PM »

Doesn't look like you would be messing with it there. Thought you might have been in the motor covers also. Depending on the year of the bike the wiring is a little different with regards to the safety feature. I'm not even sure that this would cause the bike to stall. I think the safety feature only regulates the starter motor.

An easy check would be to check the power at your coils with the key turned on, bike in gear, kill switch to on and lever out. Pull in lever and see if your readings change.

I'm still a bit confused about how the bike rolls easily while in gear.

laser145 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2010, 12:09:37 PM »

Quote from: Silverback on July 29, 2010, 12:00:02 PM

I'm still a bit confused about how the bike rolls easily while in gear.

Yeah, makes me nervous...

laser145 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2010, 04:28:30 PM »

Quote from: Silverback on July 29, 2010, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: laser145 on July 29, 2010, 11:08:53 AM

It rolls with or without the lever pulled while in gear... no resistance.

Cheers

If it is rolling freely while in gear (without the lever pulled), there is a mechanical issue that will more than likely require inspection.

You had said this in an earlier post? I'm a little confused.
Quote from: laser145 on July 27, 2010, 05:51:58 PM
No, it's not the brake. I rebuilt it recently.

The bike rolls freely when in neutral, gives resistance when in gear and clutch is engaged (handle not pulled in).

I did a few searches on the forum and saw some people talking about clutch plates sticking together. I thought my bike has had a rattle for some time now... was going to adjust the cam chain this weekend, but now I can't get her to move.

Rereading your first post, did you by chance mess with any wiring from the clutch/neutral safety feature? Could be as simple as an ungrounded neutral wire/switch.

Ok, I was wrong...it does not roll freely in gear without the lever pulled... it does roll if I pull in the clutch.

and it still stalls when I try to ride off in gear....

fire113 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2010, 05:03:09 PM »

Charge the battery and give it a try.

Good luck...fire113

laser145 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2010, 05:36:01 PM »

Quote from: fire113 on July 29, 2010, 05:03:09 PM

Charge the battery and give it a try.

Good luck...fire113

I'm confused... the battery is fully charged, bike runs great, idles around 1200... revs up as smoothly as can be expected with the PO's pods on it.

Unless I'm mistaken, the battery should play a role in this issue, am I wrong?

Cheers

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2010, 05:46:47 PM »

Does it stall as if the engine is over burdened or does it cut out as if the ignition switch were turned off?

laser145 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2010, 06:10:10 PM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 29, 2010, 05:46:47 PM

Does it stall as if the engine is over burdened or does it cut out as if the ignition switch were turned off?

It's like a burden... like you're trying to start in 5th gear, or just not giving enough throttle...

It tries to go, moves forward a few inches then cuts out.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2010, 06:12:55 PM »

And when you are in neutral or have the clutch pulled it, she rolls easy, including the drive chain and front sprocket?

laser145 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2010, 06:25:21 PM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 29, 2010, 06:12:55 PM

And when you are in neutral or have the clutch pulled it, she rolls easy, including the drive chain and front sprocket?

yes, rolls as easy as 500lbs can. I have to push it across the street everyday for street cleaning.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2010, 06:51:08 PM »

OK, so we know the brakes are not stuck, wheel axles are fine, chain not binding and final drive and counter shaft are not frozen. We also know the engine runs fine so the primary chain must also be turning the transmission main shaft OK.

When you start the engine and pull in the clutch your still OK. It's when you let the clutch out that the engine labors, bogs and dies.

Is that about right?

laser145 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2010, 06:29:11 AM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 29, 2010, 06:51:08 PM

When you start the engine and pull in the clutch your still OK. It's when you let the clutch out that the engine labors, bogs and dies.

Is that about right?

Yes, bike starts fine, idles well, revs fine. I can pull in the clutch and shift through all of the gears (although sometimes it's hard to find neutral again without either moving or shutting the engine off)... the bike will run just fine with the clutch pulled in, no change in the engine.

It's when I pull the clutch, put it in gear, and try to pull away...it tries to move, goes about 6 inches...then locks up.

From what I've been reading I assume the clutch plates are sticking together. Hondaman gave an account of a situation that fits my bikes history well:

Hondaman: "When the cork plates sit in the squeezed position for a long time (months to years) they slowly squish all the oil out of them. The oil left on the surface of the plates will work OK for the first few miles, but if the bike is then only started and driven a short distance each time, the oil never gets back into the plates. Then, short rides after that will not lube the plates at all, and if this continues, the plates will start to glaze. If heavy throttle is then applied, they burn. It takes a concerted ride, like a full tankful of gas, all at once, on a warm day, to re-oil the plates. This is true of nearly all of the vintage wet clutch setups, and many of the modern ones as well."

My bike was sitting for years, I got it running and have put about 40 miles on it, but always on short trips...

So I THINK that's what I'm dealing with... but I'm not sure, and still would love to hear other opinions.

Cheers

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2010, 02:44:00 PM »

I'm outa ideas other than pulling the engine and cracking into the transmission. I sure hope someone can give you some ideas for something less extreme!

laser145 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2010, 02:59:36 PM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 30, 2010, 02:44:00 PM

I'm outa ideas other than pulling the engine and cracking into the transmission. I sure hope someone can give you some ideas for something less extreme!

Stuck plates in the clutch couldn't be the problem?

News:

Author Topic: clutch problem, maybe transmission? (Read 7531 times)