Author Topic: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN  (Read 2682 times)

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Offline KCs76Cafe

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76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« on: March 04, 2006, 08:45:12 AM »
Since finding out that one of the previous owners evidently/possibly dropped the bike, bent the bars and changed them out with a set of bars from a 73 model.....I've got more problems.

 There is "K3" stamped in the bars under the right hand control housing. I guess they switched out the complete bars including the left/right control housings,wires,etc. My problem is the 73 right hand control has 6 wires and the 76 model only had 5. The extra one is a brown and white wire and I dont know where to connect if. The PO had made a jumper with another brown/white gang connector and I guess he had it connected to it.

I found this out when I ran out of places to connect the brown/white wires. I figure this has something to do with the headlight off circuit while starting.

Anybody have a clue what I need to hook where  ???  ???  ??? HELP!!!!  ;D  ;D  ;D

If someone could explain it better over the phone......PM me for phone # or send me yours....I'll pay for the call.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 08:52:00 AM by KCs76Cafe »

Offline chippyfive50

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2006, 02:18:03 PM »
looks to me like the lead to your gauge lights, and should be in parallel with your headlamp switch i.e. when the headlight is on, so are your gauges.
http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/MCwiring.php#class   another resource...
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2006, 03:28:27 PM »
I've looked at those diagrams before but they are so generic its hard to make sense of them. I have a 76 K wiring diagram and going by it I have an extra brown/white wire coming from the right hand control. And thats because the control came off of a 73 model. I have a 74 diagram and it shows the same wires coming from the right hand control that I have.

The headlight worked before I took the bucket off to paint. When I unhooked all the wires I was checking to make sure they were connected color and they were........I just cant remember where the extra wire was. And after the first time I hooked everything back up, the starter did work using the button but the headlight didnt. After going thru and checking connections I saw where I had a black wire from the right hand control hooked to a green gang connector instead of black. So I fixed that and its back to how it was....neither work. All fuses are good and the headlight is good so its got to be a gremlin in there somewhere.

I got tired of trying to figure out the lights/starter.......so I gassed up the bike and took it for its first ride around the yard and driveway.          ;D I LIKE  ;D

I ended up getting the rear turn signals hooked up and working.....the front ones come on like they are supposed to (as park lights) but the one that is supposed to blink goes out. Still gotta work with them as they are mini cat eye blinkers with only 2 wires.

Still gotta make a mount for the brake light but its acting up also. Running light comes on when key is turned but brake light doesnt work....but comes on when key is turned to second position, even with hitting front or rear brake.  ???

Its got to be in the headlight off circuit somehow........just gotta figure out what to do with the extra wire.

Oh the fun of trying to figure out POs hack jobs   ::)  ::)   ::)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 03:45:54 PM by KCs76Cafe »

Offline Jonesy

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2006, 04:38:13 PM »
Does the '76 model have an on/off switch for the headlight? If it didn't, that could be the issue, as the '73 model allowed you to turn the lights on and off, whereas the later bikes had the lights on all the time, except for when you'd hit the starter button, which would momentarily cut the headlight so all the power went to the starter.

The headlight worked before I took the bucket off to paint. When I unhooked all the wires I was checking to make sure they were connected color and they were........I just cant remember where the extra wire was. And after the first time I hooked everything back up, the starter did work using the button but the headlight didnt. After going thru and checking connections I saw where I had a black wire from the right hand control hooked to a green gang connector instead of black. So I fixed that and its back to how it was....neither work. All fuses are good and the headlight is good so its got to be a gremlin in there somewhere.

You sure it was a green wire, or a green wire with a red stripe? The wiring for the starter safety circuit has that color and you might have fed power from the black wire to it and made it work (Educated guess here...)

I ended up getting the rear turn signals hooked up and working.....the front ones come on like they are supposed to (as park lights) but the one that is supposed to blink goes out. Still gotta work with them as they are mini cat eye blinkers with only 2 wires.

The front blinkers are 2 wire? Do they use a 2-filament bulb? The front blinkers relied on the casings for the ground, with the 2 wires being the hot side for each filament in the bulbs.

Still gotta make a mount for the brake light but its acting up also. Running light comes on when key is turned but brake light doesnt work....but comes on when key is turned to second position, even with hitting front or rear brake.  ???

When you turn the key to the second position, you turn on the parking lamp, or in other words, the rear tail light. The brake light should work in the second position only.

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 04:39:55 PM by Jonesy »
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2006, 05:11:50 PM »
Does the '76 model have an on/off switch for the headlight? If it didn't, that could be the issue, as the '73 model allowed you to turn the lights on and off, whereas the later bikes had the lights on all the time, except for when you'd hit the starter button, which would momentarily cut the headlight so all the power went to the starter.


You sure it was a green wire, or a green wire with a red stripe? The wiring for the starter safety circuit has that color and you might have fed power from the black wire to it and made it work (Educated guess here...)

The front blinkers are 2 wire? Do they use a 2-filament bulb? The front blinkers relied on the casings for the ground, with the 2 wires being the hot side for each filament in the bulbs.



When you turn the key to the second position, you turn on the parking lamp, or in other words, the rear tail light. The brake light should work in the second position only.

Hope this helps!

AH HAH!!!! Thats gotta be it........the diagram for the 76 doesnt show a headlight control :-[  :-[   ::)  So I dont need to hook up the odd brown/white wire coming from the control.

Im pretty sure it was the green only....no red.

The blinkers are 2 wire and probally single filament.

When the key is turned to the run position.....the oil and neutral lights come on and this is where the bike will run.....the tail light comes on but the brake light wont work using either the front or rear brake lever/pedal. When the key is turned to the second position the brake light comes on along with the tail light also.....not using the lever/pedal....it just lights up.

The front turns are coming on as park/running lamps in the 1st key position but go off in the 2nd postion.

Thanks for the info about the head light control Jonesy......that explains some of my problems.

From looking at the 2 right hand control diagrams......looks like the 76 model starter button takes a black wire and the 73/74 doesnt. The 2nd black wire on the 74 diagram is for the headlight control. Do you think this right hand control will be able to be hooked up to work or would it be best to look for a 76 model right hand control?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 05:19:52 PM by KCs76Cafe »

Offline Jonesy

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2006, 07:28:24 PM »
It might be easier to get a '76 control pod, as everything should work right. But, you can turn the lights off when you start the bike instead of relying on the starter button. Someone else might be better to help, as I'm not the greatest with wiring issues...
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 07:56:34 PM »
Ok.....thanks for the help Jonesy.

Im starting to look like your avatar. I've studied diagrams today till I see them when I close my eyes  ;D

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2006, 03:43:00 PM »
K3bars --- k6 bike
=================================
Bk----------Bk  from ign switch power source
Br/W-------Br/W general lighting power

Bk--------Bk  from ign switch power source
Bk/W-----Bk/W  ignition  coil power

Y/R------Y/R starter mag switch
G/R-------Bk  from ign switch power source    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

W---------W  headlight low
B----------B  headlight high

Br/W-----Br/W general lighting power
Br/R----- Br/R  headlight from fuse
Br/B-----Br/B   turn buzzer

LB-------LB   trighturn
O---------O    left turn

Gr--------Gr  ground

LB/W----LB/W    Right marker
O/W------O/W      Left marker

LG-------LG        horn

remove jumper from Br/W to BK    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
install jumper from Br/W to Bk/R    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Be aware that future owners of this bike will curse you as a PO.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Jonesy

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2006, 06:48:33 PM »
TwoTired, thanks for stepping in. I kinda figured the hot wire to the starter button was on the right track, but compared to me, you're the electrical guru!
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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2006, 06:50:43 PM »
Oh Two Tired........Dude........If this works I'll be forever indebted to you  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)  8

Quote
Be aware that future owners of this bike will curse you as a PO.


I doubt I'll ever get rid of the bike.......and in that case it will be my son....and if I still have my senses then maybe I can "splain" it to him.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 06:57:13 PM by KCs76Cafe »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2006, 07:08:18 PM »
The wire list should solve your bar wiring issue to get your light switches and starter button working.

The turn sigs and the brake lights will be separate issues.  And, if they are not stock some improvising will be required.
Front sigs should be 2 element (3 connections, Hi/low power and ground)  Rears are single element (2 connections, power and ground.)
Anyway, these items are wired the same between K6 and K3 in stock form.

One step at a time.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2006, 07:58:06 PM »
Went out and tried switching the wires around. The starters gonna work. after getting the wires switched I tried the starter button and the starter spun 2-3 times then the solenoid started clicking. So I guess the brakelight has a short in it somewhere and has drained the battery.

The headlight still wouldnt work but that maybe be because of the drained battery. Will try it again tomorrow after the battery has charged overnight.

I did switch my front turns over from the O/W - LB/W to the O - LB. Now the front sigs work...just no running lights. Will try to find some dual element lights to use so I can have running lights also.

Thanks again for the help TwoTired  ;D

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2006, 08:11:04 PM »
Forgot to mention.......On the left hand control I dont have a Brown/Red wire coming from it, The odd wire that dont match is a Black/yellow. All the other wire colors match.  So I wonder what year that control came off of???

 I do have it going to the brown/red wire in the main harness though. The plastic shield has a yellow strip on it and I had labeled the black/yellow wire to know to hook it back up there.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2006, 08:53:12 PM »
Okay, I guess your left control is from an early F model.
Connect the Bk/Y to the K6 Br/R wire in the harness.  (Headlight power from fuse.)  The bar control switches this power to the Hi or Low headlight.

Check your headlight fuse??

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2006, 03:16:18 PM »
Its me again Ethel........ ;D

I've been ciphering  ;D  ::) Was thinking would it be better to try and adapt the 76 headlight circuit into the 73 on/off switch?  That way the starter button wouldnt have to take the load of the light power all the time.

Is it possible TwoTired....... Or is that the way you made the conversion list anyway?

Offline Jonesy

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2006, 03:59:54 PM »
(Since TwoTired made the diagram, I'll let him answer, but here's my opinion..)

If the '73 starter switch is original, it wasn't designed to carry the load of the headlight. It's simply a momentary contact to complete the two wires in the starter circuit (before the safety units were added to the starter circuit in the k3 model the button simply grounded the wire to the handlebars to complete the ground to the solenoid). The '76 switch had 3 wires, one being a hot wire that was either connected to the headlight when the button was not pushed in, or would be connected to the starter circuit when pressed. From what I can tell, the lights on/off switch looks like it should work. Again, TT can verify...
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2006, 05:40:51 PM »
I've been ciphering  ;D  ::) Was thinking would it be better to try and adapt the 76 headlight circuit into the 73 on/off switch?  That way the starter button wouldnt have to take the load of the light power all the time.

Is it possible TwoTired....... Or is that the way you made the conversion list anyway?

Geez, you sure want a lot from your internet access fees.  :D  Not only an answer but an education, too!  :o

The 73 starter button doesn't have the capability of routing the headlight power as the 76 button does.  Rather it has a separate lighting switch that also supplies power to the headlight dimmer switch and then the headlight. The change I suggest, changes one connection for the starter, and moves one jumper that should already be on the bike, if you have given us the correct component inventory for your bike.

The K3 wiring routes power to the headlight fuse from the General lighting Br/W wire collection buss.  This buss is powered from the lighting switch.
The K6 gets lighting power to the Br/W buss from the Black Buss with a direct jumper.  (It's in the schematic I don't know where it is physically on the bike.)
However, the K6 routes power to the headlight fuse from the starter switch when it is not pushed.  This switch get it's power from the Black wire buss which is energized from the ignition switch.

The K3 Lighting switch has Bk and Br/W wires which will perform the role of the jumper found on the K6, giving you master control over all lighting (after the ignition is turned on)  This is how the  K1-K4 operates.

Since the K6 expects Headlight power to come from the Starter switch (of which you have the wrong type) the disconnected jumper used in the K6 used to bridge power from black to Br/W is used instead to power the headlight fuse supply wire Bk/R.

The starter solenoid has four connections. Two big power in power out for the starter motor and two smaller connections.  12 V must be placed across these two terminals to energize the solenoid creating contact between the two big posts.
The Y/R wire on the K6 provide power the energize the soleniod via the stater button.  The K3 bar control has Y/R wire for the solenoid and when the button is pushed it connects this wire to the G/R.  This is why you must connect it the the Black wire buss powered from the key switch.
The last terminal on the solenoid must be grounded in order for the Y/R wire to have the desired effect.  This is provided by pulling in the clutch (clutch switch) or having the neutral light on (neutral switch). The is supposed to be a diode that block the neutral Lamp voltage from getting to the starter solenoid and clutch switch on the K6.  The K6 does NOT have the Starter motor safety Unit found on the K1-K4.

So, if I did it right, your controls should work like it did on the K3.  All run lights controlled from the light switch.  And, the starter button should activate the starter as appropriate.

This enough of a ramble?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2006, 06:24:37 PM »
thanks again TT and Jonesy.......you confirmed my suspicions.

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2006, 02:58:39 PM »
TwoTired.......After switching the wires as you suggested, the starter button works now, but I couldnt get any power to the headlite/tail lite/guagelites with the key in the first(run) position.

After going back thru all the wires to make sure they were connected where they needed to be......and even starting from scratch twice.....I have found that the only way I can get the headlite/tail lite/guagelites to work is to put the jumper back in from the Br/W to the Black.

Is this gonna hurt anything to run it like this?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2006, 04:53:11 PM »
Will only hurt your pride at not being able to get the headlight switch on the K3 bar control to work.

You see, there is Bk and Br/W wire going to that switch.  And, when it is closed (turned on), it is supposed to do the exact same thing as the jumper you are putting in; connect the Bk and Br/W wires.

I guess your headlight switch is broken. ???

How are you getting power to the headlight fuse; the Bk/R wire?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2006, 06:20:50 PM »
Yep.......using the Blk/R wire for power to the fuse. I guess I'll start looking for a 76 right control........left too for that matter.

Now I have to track down a problem with the coil for #2 & #4 cylinders. I guess from taking the tank on and off so many times I've developed a short in the wires going to the coils. I noticed the bike started backfiring a little and #4 header pipe was cold.......then it started sounding like a V twin and #2 pipe was cold. Checked the wires for a loose connection and got #2 back.  ???  It never ends.

Offline KCs76Cafe

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2006, 06:17:01 PM »
Well.....the wiring gremlins are gone  ;D  I had one more pop up today that was minor. Couldnt take it out on the road and leave my 8yr old at the house by himself so I made a few laps around the house/driveway and noticed the dash lights had gone out but when moving the handle bars back and forth they would flicker. Turned out that the black wire coming from the dash had broken inside the insulation at the bullet connector....so I fixed it and now no worries.

I did find out the hard way that I had spark going to the #4 cyl  ::)  ;D I took the tank back off today and checked the wires going from the harness to the coils and all looked OK. So I put the tank back on and fired it up. #2 was burning again but #4 pipe was still cold so while it was running I pulled the wire off the #4 plug. Now take into consideration that I had my Cafe seat base OFF and my inner thighs were resting nicely on the frame rails.  ::)  ::)

I found out in a hurry that I indeed had spark going to #4 cyl. It was lighting me up like a Christmas tree and was all I could do to try and stand on my tippy toes while trying to hit the kill switch.  :o  :o  :o  ;D  ;D 

Ended up being I had fouled the #4 plug......I guess from putt putting around the yard. Took it out as a last resort, sprayed it with electrical contact cleaner and wire brushed it.....now it runs fine.

Anyway.......gonna do the shakedown run on it tomorrow since its supposed to be close to 80*.

A big thanks to you TwoTired and Jonesy for helping me with the wiring.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2006, 06:20:53 PM by KCs76Cafe »

Offline Jonesy

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2006, 04:48:18 AM »
Glad I could be of help, although TwoTired is the electrical guru.. (hence my avatar).

NGK plugs are notorious for absence of spark when fouled. Not sure why, but that's been my experience with them.

Congrats you got it going!
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: 76 750k wiring issues.......AGAIN
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2006, 06:51:21 AM »
kc,that was an enlightening experience huh. ;D
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3