Topic: Removing stuck/rusted caliper bleeder valve

[Nortstudio]

'76 CB550k:

I have searched the forum, and found posts regarding my issue with a stuck front brake bleeder valve.  After trying penetrating oil alone, it's time for The "gentle heat." mentioned in the posts, before having to buy a whole caliper system???

Being that I don't own a torch, and have never used one, I'm looking for some advice for what to use for this process.

Should I be getting the type that I see in hardware stores - small canister looking thing?

I'm concerned with being safe with getting an open flame near a caliper that holds oil(or ANYTHING that holds combustable liquids!), but it seems you all have done this before.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[DavePhipps]

Are you working on my bike? I'm having the same problem LOL.
Thankfully I have a spare system in the ex-wifes pole barn(YAY Ebay)
Mine is so tight it feels like someone put the bleed nipple on with impact driver.

[Nortstudio]

Have you figured out a heat source?  It seems that's what everyone thinks is needed if the penetrating oil doesn't work.

[DavePhipps]

I used a propane torch on my 550 caliper 15 years ago.
If you destroy the nipple getting it out, you can still get bleed nipples from many places.
I'm going to try heat, and a 6 point socket. My box end failed me badly. 

[BobbyR]

I would caution you to be careful with a torch. I heated one too much and it sounded like a pistol shot as the piston flew 50 feet into the woods. There is a mixture of ATF and acetone that seems to work for most people better than any off the shelf stuff. It is a a 50/50 mix. 

[Nortstudio]

I already bought a replacement nipple, and cap.  I was hoping all would go well today, and I'd get the old one out.  I also think the nipple is stripped from the previous owners attempts to remove it.  I'll need to use vice grips.

Where do you get this 50/50 acetone & ATF mix?  What is ATF? Automatic trans fluid???

I've never used these, can acetone be purchased at an auto parts store?

[Nortstudio]

Sorry, it looks like I could get acetone in a paint store?  Or home depot.  Seems like it used as nail polish remover also.

[DavePhipps]

I would caution you to be careful with a torch. I heated one too much and it sounded like a pistol shot as the piston flew 50 feet into the woods.

My kids would love that 

[Nortstudio]

I used a propane torch on my 550 caliper 15 years ago.
If you destroy the nipple getting it out, you can still get bleed nipples from many places.
I'm going to try heat, and a 6 point socket. My box end failed me badly. 

How long did you heat it for, or how did you know it was hot enough to remove, but not so hot to shoot the piston through the roof?

[fatmatt650]

I've been through this a few times. I've got one that I sheared off and just left that way, filled it w/ fluid, put in the pistons and then bled it from the top. Another that I sheared off and then drilled it out, that was a #$%* and I probably ought to replace the caliper but it's been holding fine for a few thousand miles. I screwed up the threads a bit and when I tried to re-tap I found that the pointy end of the tap wouldn't let me get far enough in to do any good. My most recent one I soaked in WD-40 for a week and it came out pretty easily. Every day or two I'd give it a few taps w/ a hammer. I don't usually have the patience for this approach but it's for my dual disc conversion and I don't have all the parts yet. Good luck!

[Nortstudio]

I've been through this a few times. I've got one that I sheared off and just left that way, filled it w/ fluid, put in the pistons and then bled it from the top.

Can you explain this to me?  Can I get around removing for now, and still be able to redo my brake system?

[Stev-o]

Yes, ATF = Auto tranny fluid and acetone is available at HD in the paint dept.

Mix the two 50/50 for a super penetrating oil. I recently used this in the cylinders of my project 750, the motor was stuck.

Let is sit on there a couple days and clamp the vise grips on there and turn [lefty loosey!]

If no-go, then heat.

Good Luck.

[Nortstudio]

Thanks for the tips.  I will be grabbing this tomw and start the waiting period for this #$%* to finally come loose!

[steam-powered man]

here's what has worked for me:  a shot of PB blaster on the threads and in the hole, rap straight down on the screw with small hammer, and repeat every few days.  be patient.  (the hammer rap is said to shock/break the corrosion in the theaded section).  get a six point socket/ratchet and have it handy.  heat the surrounding area with a propane torch until very warm, i sometimes wait until the PB blaster boils out of the hole a bit.

slow steady pressure on the wrench usually does it.  if you feel like the force on the wrench is too much, try the blaster/rapping again for a few days.  good luck    
  

[Legin]

Find a company that has a spark eroder as these can very accurately remove broken taps and the like. Often small machine shops have them.

[DavePhipps]

I forgot to mention. Nitric acid will dissolve the bleed nipple but has no efect on aluminum
just in case it all of the above fail.

[Nortstudio]

I forgot to mention. Nitric acid will dissolve the bleed nipple but has no efect on aluminum
just in case it all of the above fail.

I'm not sure if you are serious or not - but I decided to google Nitric Acid, and the first thing that came up was a youtube video by a group of kids called the "Nerd Squad" or some such thing.  They made the video using a device to disguise their voice!  Let me tell you - I am hoping the acetone works  

I just bought some pure acetone from the Pharmacy, poured a little on there, just to get the ball rolling (or the valve turning, as it were).  I will need to make a trip to the auto store for the ATF when the rain lets up, to make the 50/50% blend.

[knowsnothing]

I also read on this forum that Aluminum Sulphate (Al2(SO4)3) will dissolve the ferrous metals and leave the aluminum in tact.  You can pick it up at the depot or other hardware/garden stores.  Its used to change the pH of your soil so your hydrangea turn blue.  I found this somewhere else, not sure if its true (i hate chemisty) but it looks good:

"At first glance, you might think that nothing will happen: ferrous and ferric sulfates are both soluble in water, and aluminum is above iron in the activity series, so we cannon get a precipitation or a single replacement reaction.

However, aluminum sulfate is actually an acidic compound. It will hydrolyze in aqueous solution (this equation only occurs to a small degree - not all of the Al3+ ions will react, and soluble complex ions with hydroxide ligands might be formed instead of solid aluminum hydroxide, but the idea is the same):
Al2(SO4)3 + 6H2O <----> 2Al(OH)3 + 3HSO4- + 3H+

These hydrogen ions are below iron in the activity series, and so iron will be oxidized in acidic solutions, usually forming Fe2+ (and H2 gas as the other product).

Thus, a plausible reaction would be:
2Al3+(aq) + 6H2O(l) + 3Fe(s) -----> 3Fe2+(aq) + 2Al(OH)3(s) + 3H2(g)"

[Nortstudio]

I also read on this forum that Aluminum Sulphate (Al2(SO4)3) will dissolve the ferrous metals and leave the aluminum in tact.  You can pick it up at the depot or other hardware/garden stores.  Its used to change the pH of your soil so your hydrangea turn blue.  I found this somewhere else, not sure if its true (i hate chemisty) but it looks good:

I didn't find any mention of it on this forum, but would it be mixed with water or something to apply to the valve??? It seems that it comes from the garden store as a powder.

[Ace]

I've had success with getting the pistons and bleed nipples out of calipers by boiling them in hot water for about 1/2 an hour.  Ensure the caliper is covered completely with water, and also don't leave it as water will evaporate so keep add some water to keep it covered if you don't have a deep pot.  With the nipple, you can always try to tighten it just a little to help break the seal of the thread and then try and get it out.  Penetrine also help/works sometimes.  Another combination is 50/50 of diesel and kero.  I wouldn't put flame on that though 

[Nortstudio]

I've had success with getting the pistons and bleed nipples out of calipers by boiling them in hot water for about 1/2 an hour.  Ensure the caliper is covered completely with water, and also don't leave it as water will evaporate so keep add some water to keep it covered if you don't have a deep pot.  With the nipple, you can always try to tighten it just a little to help break the seal of the thread and then try and get it out.  Penetrine also help/works sometimes.  Another combination is 50/50 of diesel and kero.  I wouldn't put flame on that though 

Thanks for the tip.  I am trying my best not to apply flame.  The tale of shooting a piston 50 feet into the air has me a little nervous, and definitely interested in all the other options first.

Man, I just want to bleed the damn brakes.  This too shall pass....

[knowsnothing]

It took me a bit, but i found the reference to Aluminum sulfate.  About 2/3 of the way down.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38614.0

[drones76]

I had the same problem yesterday and I borrowed one of the cannister types from my neighbor.  About 10 seconds on and off on the nipple was enough to get it loose.

[Nortstudio]

I had the same problem yesterday and I borrowed one of the cannister types from my neighbor.  About 10 seconds on and off on the nipple was enough to get it loose.

Cannister type of what?

[knowsnothing]

torch