Author Topic: 550/600 clubman racer research thread. (Read 14036 times)

DavePhipps · « **Reply #25 on:** November 12, 2010, 03:48:26 PM »

Mark, what exactly are you wanting to do with the bike? If you want it easy to work on, use stock parts as much as possible. The 650 head has a better port design compared to the 550 and 750. You'll be able to get plenty of air through there for the 550/650 hybrid. If you want to use the camchain adjuster from the 650 you will need to use the 650 oilpan, it's deeper.

paulages · « **Reply #26 on:** November 12, 2010, 07:22:08 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 12, 2010, 03:48:26 PM

Mark, what exactly are you wanting to do with the bike? If you want it easy to work on, use stock parts as much as possible. The 650 head has a better port design compared to the 550 and 750. You'll be able to get plenty of air through there for the 550/650 hybrid. If you want to use the camchain adjuster from the 650 you will need to use the 650 oilpan, it's deeper.

the 650 cam chain adjuster sits in the the same slot in the bottom case the 550 one does... this has no bearing on the oil pan. you may be thinking of the 650 primary chain adjuster mod... I could be wrong, but I don't think the 650 pan is necessary for this either.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #27 on:** November 12, 2010, 09:15:00 PM »

You're right about it being the primary chain tensioner that I was thinking about.
Sorry about that. I need to check my facts better before posting.

Raef · « **Reply #28 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:12:01 AM »

Just got off had to work a swing shift to do a few things while the production people were not there.

It's just a toy, I had a 550 mtor built and ready to go and lost a piston in my 75 550 F so the project motor went in the stock bike. I'm just looking to take this one a little farther.

The biggest draw back will be having to rebuild the custom exhaust, that's not to big a deal the first set was just a mock up

mlinder · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2010, 07:57:25 AM »

I'd just run the 650 head and 650 pistons on the 550 jugs and bottom end. It will be a good start, putting you at around 570cc's.

If you aren't doing any major porting or combustion chamber work, this will give you good flow at high RPMs.

You can bump compression a bit with a thinner head gasket.

You'll have to check, but the shoulder of the 650 pistons may be a bit proud (you can ask Paulages if he's checked that.) Not a huge deal, the shoulders can be turned down at a relatively low cost.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #30 on:** November 13, 2010, 08:47:08 AM »

what does proud mean in relation to the piston?

mlinder · « **Reply #31 on:** November 13, 2010, 08:53:10 AM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 13, 2010, 08:47:08 AM

what does proud mean in relation to the piston?

Shoulder height may be above cylinder deck height.

Raef · « **Reply #32 on:** November 13, 2010, 09:17:52 AM »

I think that is right, I have yet to order gaskets to check the final pop off and valve clearances.

There will be some port, combustion chamber work as well as intake and exhaust work going on.

I don't have any target HP buy I would like to be able to use the top of 5 th gear. I am off next week if I get the parts bead blasted I get some measurements posted. If I can help or add anything let me know.

Mark

DavePhipps · « **Reply #33 on:** November 13, 2010, 12:29:29 PM »

OK, I've decided to use the 750 pistons and modify them for this application.
Ebay is the cheap racers friend.
Paul I'm using the 650/500 hybrid as a reference point for the pistons. If you have any suggestions or words of wisdom please feel free to speak up.

paulages · « **Reply #34 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:46:13 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 13, 2010, 12:29:29 PM

OK, I've decided to use the 750 pistons and modify them for this application.
Ebay is the cheap racers friend.
Paul I'm using the 650/500 hybrid as a reference point for the pistons. If you have any suggestions or words of wisdom please feel free to speak up.

I'll look through my notes and see if I can find some numbers regarding how much we cut off the piston and at what angle, etc. I'd PM Soos though, as he's cut several sets of these pistons, including the 64.75mm slugs I'm using now.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #35 on:** November 13, 2010, 02:08:10 PM »

Off topic, but I noticed you have a BSA thunderbolt. Any suggestions on where to get parts for those. I'm going to help a friend get his running again. It's under a tarp and has had the barrels off for 20 years.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #36 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:33:13 AM »

Renamed the thread because I'm adding more to the subject.
I've decided to go with the monoshock conversion. FZR600 swinger with hayabusa shock.
Links and pics of other peoples monoshock conversions
http://www.2wheelmichigan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1238

http://www.650motorcycles.com/50Gary.html

http://www.vinmoto.org/gallery/v/VinMoto-Garage/album03/Godfferys-Garage-123/Cafe+Overkill/

mlinder · « **Reply #37 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:31:40 AM »

What organisation and class are you going to be running this in?

mlinder · « **Reply #38 on:** November 14, 2010, 01:11:10 PM »

Also, the angle (or lack thereof) from swingarm pivot to rear downtube/frame backbone will not lend itself to a single shock design unless cantilevered.

See the distance and angle between shock mounts on that TX500 you posted a pic to?

You don't have anywhere near that with the cb550 frame.

As far as that xs650, I can't really tell what's going on there, except that everything is from a new(er) bike except the engine and parts of the frame. I think the entire rear of the frame has been cut off and redesigned on that. Not sure though.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #39 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:07:37 PM »

I'll be running this in WERA clubman events and trackdays. I think it can be ran in V5 also

I'll be using the FZR600 swingarm and linkage with a hayabusa shock. I have an FZR sirttng next to my cb500 and did some quick measurements. It loks like it can be done without hacking the frame up. I'll need to weld a plate and bracket about 7 inches above the swinhgarm pivot. It's a little above the bottom of the triangle that the sidecovers cover.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #40 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:38:15 PM »

This will give you a better idea of what I'm talking about

These are from here
http://forum.oldskoolsuzuki.info/cgi-bin/Yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1219698034/16

paulages · « **Reply #41 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:43:57 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 13, 2010, 02:08:10 PM

Off topic, but I noticed you have a BSA thunderbolt. Any suggestions on where to get parts for those. I'm going to help a friend get his running again. It's under a tarp and has had the barrels off for 20 years.

I sold the BSA actually... I should update the sig. I got most of my parts from a local supplier, Empire Classics (http://www.empireclassicscycle.com/), but have used Raber's Parts Mart and a few other commonly known suppliers for some things. I still have a Commando and get parts from the same people for the most part. Thad at Empire can usually beat anything I can find online, and I'm happy to support a friend and local business.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #42 on:** November 14, 2010, 04:46:04 PM »

Thanks. I'm going to help my landlord restore his thunderbolt, r60/6, norton 400 something, R90s and his enfield bullet. I may even get a sidecar out of the deal

WOOT!

mlinder · « **Reply #43 on:** November 14, 2010, 04:47:55 PM »

I can't tell what's going on in those pictures. Use mspaint to mark where you are thinking of mounting your monoshock and post it here.

Looks like you'll be legal in Clubman, but I doubt vintage will allow any of that new stuff. Are you sure a rear shock designed for a 500lb bike is a good match for a much shorter swing arm at a different angle/different leverage 390ish lb bike?

Not trying to rain on your parade, but I think a reasonably good traditional rear shock setup will be easier for you to dial in, and will ensure that you can also race in vintage.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #44 on:** November 14, 2010, 04:48:30 PM »

Quote from: raef on November 13, 2010, 01:12:01 AM

Just got off had to work a swing shift to do a few things while the production people were not there.

It's just a toy, I had a 550 mtor built and ready to go and lost a piston in my 75 550 F so the project motor went in the stock bike. I'm just looking to take this one a little farther.

The biggest draw back will be having to rebuild the custom exhaust, that's not to big a deal the first set was just a mock up

Keep me updated on the exhaust. I can't find anything 4 into 1 other than MAC.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #45 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:12:48 PM »

Here are where I would be putting the mounting brackets for the shock and linkage. I can look around for other shocks that will work better for the wieght.
This may sound strange but getting a set dual shocks that have adjustable ride height, preload, compression, and rebound damping is a pretty expensive deal.
Most (stock) modern monoshocks come with those features and can be gotten fairly cheaply from racing forums and ebay.

I still have one more 500 that I can develop into a V3 racer if I ever get the money for doing that. Period pices are pricey.

mlinder · « **Reply #46 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:18:38 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 14, 2010, 05:12:48 PM

Here are where I would be putting the mounting brackets for the shock and linkage. I can look around for other shocks that will work better for the wieght.
This may sound strange but getting a set dual shocks that have adjustable ride height, preload, compression, and rebound damping is a pretty expensive deal.
Most (stock) modern monoshocks come with those features and can be gotten fairly cheaply from racing forums and ebay.

I still have one more 500 that I can develop into a V3 racer if I ever get the money for doing that. Period pices are pricey.

It's not strange. However, buying relatively inexpensive progressive-brand springs is probably the way to go. 300 bucks and easy setup vs ??$ and impossible setup and a fair bit of fabrication, and again, legal in vintage classes.

mlinder · « **Reply #47 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:19:57 PM »

Also, from where to where on that picture are actual shock mounts?

Raef · « **Reply #48 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:25:26 PM »

I'm going to try to drag it out and get my bearings, I piled everthing to the side when I put the motor in the other bike. I ordered a head yesterday I am planning on mocking up a motor And putting it in the frame to make sure it works with what I have done to this point

The last exhaust was 4 into 2 that exited out the back routed under the seat. It worked well and sounded awesome, with the 550 set up it was always lean.

I think I will build a similar set making the pipe ovel instead of 2 pipes

DavePhipps · « **Reply #49 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:31:22 PM »

the shock mounts are not there. The red lines represent where they would be. Sorry my son asked for help with somthing and I hit reply before finishing.
The linkage mount is where the centerstand tube is now. The upper mount would be at the the front of the underseat triangle.
Like this one.

I'm try to do the conversion for under 100 dollars. I'm using spares and donating parts from my FZR to the 550. My main expense will be the purchase of a shock.

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Author Topic: 550/600 clubman racer research thread. (Read 14036 times)