Topic: Cycle-X Charge System Experiences?

[excellrec]

So I bought the Cycle-X Charging system and got it running last night. The primary idea was to get rid of the battery.. starter.. simplify the electrics and etc.

 The problem I am having is that it will not kickstart nor idle (it will sort of idle but really choppy and smooths out when you re-attach the battery) without battery assistance as is. I have everything simplified for troubleshooting so it's just the two stator wires going into the reg/rect and the one wire coming off the reg/rect going straight to the coils (no lights, nothing else). Upon kicking the bike without a battery voltage only seems to rise to about 3volts and will not start w/o a battery. The other big problem is that without a battery attached the motor will also not rev, as soon as you give it gas it just dies. I did talk with Ken at Cycle-X and he told me to try a capacitor which he's sending me but I don't really see how that's going to hold up as with a deficient state at idle the cap will just drain then pull as well on the generator making things worse in my estimation although I will suspend my theories and give it a try. I'm basically just wondering if this is what I should be expecting, could there be a problem? Any Ideas?

[Retro Rocket]

Are you aware that these bikes have a permanent magnet charging system.? The rotor needs battery current to magnetise the rotor so it will generate enough power to start the bike, thats why these cb's won't start with a flat battery., even racers without a charging system still have to have a fully charged battery to provide enough spark to operate.

[excellrec]

Yeah, that's why I got the cyclex system. It's a permanent magnet system so you don't need to energize the stator to develop power.

[scottly]

What voltage do you read with the motor running and a battery connected? It sounds like the charging system isn't working at all. In any case you will have to spin the motor pretty fast with the kicker to generate enough power for the coils without a battery. Do you have a stock ignition? Please save us some trouble and post a link to the cyclex system.

[754]

I believe that system is simiar to Honda 350 twin sytem. some battery eliminators back in the day sed a capacitor.

 You do not need full voltage to  start a stock 750 points system, you can start easily on 7 or so volts or less.. I started mine tonite, with the neutral light glowing dimly.. probably 4 volts or less. When it is that low it takes a few/lots of kicks..

[scottly]

 You do not need full voltage to  start a stock 750 points system, you can start easily on 7 or so volts or less.. I started mine tonite, with the neutral light glowing dimly.. probably 4 volts or less. When it is that low it takes a few/lots of kicks..

Yeah, but that 4-7 volts is coming from a battery...

[excellrec]

Cyclexsystem- http://www.cyclexchange.net/Elec%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

The alternator is definitely putting out power it's just a question of how much at what speed. With a battery connected and some revs going it goes up to the 14.5 Volts it should. When I kick it my dmm reads about 3volts at max. Points and coil system is all stock. Basically I am just wondering if Anyone has this system and can relate their experience with the output of it. I'm trying to suss out if it's functioning correctly and I just need to work with it or if the unit is not working optimally or incorrectly. If it is working correctly I can figure out a solution though, I'm fairly experienced with 12v charging systems. Thanks!

[scottly]

Cyclexsystem- http://www.cyclexchange.net/Elec%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

The alternator is definitely putting out power it's just a question of how much at what speed. With a battery connected and some revs going it goes up to the 14.5 Volts it should.

Sounds like it's working. Get a small battery for start-up. I recently got a LiFe battery; weighs less than 1 pound.

[scottly]

Not many specs on the cyclex link, and what's there doesn't jive: is it a 16 amp system or 14 amp? There are references to "magnetic draw" that are questionable, also....   

[excellrec]

well it's been said that it is a typo on the page and that it is 16 amps. So far as the magnetic draw.. eh. Primarily I just got the system because I wanted to get rid of the starter.. get a new reg/rec and be able to run kick only with no battery and if it lightened the spinning parts on the crankshaft that's always good too but not my primary concern. I really don't need much power as I have led tails and gauges so basically the headlight will draw and the coils need power but thats it. I just want to not have to deal with a battery for simplicity's sake but if I have to have another one of those nasty acid leaking things I guess I have to.. Supposedly the charging system wasnt supposed to need it though.

[bryanj]

The charging system doesn't need one,  It's the starting system that does!!

The idea of the capacitor is that, hopefuly, the first few kicks charge it enough to give you power to the coils for the engine to start. Many years ago Triumph used a similar system on the 200cc Cub----Had to have the points and timing spot on and even then was a hit and miss afair

[excellrec]

Well for whatever reason it's working with no battery now. Maybe it just needed to break in a bit or something. I do have a little cap that I threw on for testing purposes that may have helped, i'd speculate that it weighs about an ounce or less. So long as it keeps working I'm pretty pleased. It's starting on one kick now!

[Old Scrambler]

Good to hear its working..........I am planning to use that system on a cafe build of my own.........and yes, my Triumph ET ignition still works just fine on my T100C

[Pinhead]

I suspect that the capacitor smoothed the alternator output enough to allow the regulator to work...

The rectified AC waveform without a battery or capacitor would have much higher peak voltage than the average DC voltage, which could confuse the regulator. I'd personally use a 4400 uF cap or larger.

[scottly]

Well for whatever reason it's working with no battery now. Maybe it just needed to break in a bit or something.

Did you have the headlight on in the first tests?

[Bodi]

The alternator produces AC that gets rectified to pulsating DC. With a 3 phase system the momentary voltage never gets to zero VDC but it gets fairly low. This means your points may open when there's low voltage and give you a weak spark. At higher RPM the coils will be working as a transformer on the AC part of the voltage, I don't know how that will affect the spark but it probably isn't good. The high frequency AC component of the power will probably drive your regulator crazy as well.
Adding a capacitor eliminates this AC component to some degree, giving a more "pure" DC power especially at higher RPM. A capacitor is similar to a battery: it absorbs electrical energy when it charges up and then returns it when discharging.
Even a relatively small capacitor will help at high RPM, a larger one is needed to even out the pulsating DC at low RPM.
I don't know much about this Cycle-X system but it sounds interesting. How does their regulator work?

[excellrec]

Not sure exactly how their regulator works but it is a "ricks motorsports" regulator which has a few different models. This charging system is a single phase not 3. I was apprehensive about the capacitor because I presumed it would just drain before ramping up enough to build spark voltage but apparently it did some good. It's still early to say if everything is sorted well with the system though as I am experiencing bogging quite a bit now but I've got some breathing issues and tuning to rule out first before I blame it on the electrics.

[scottly]

It's still early to say if everything is sorted well with the system though as I am experiencing bogging quite a bit now but I've got some breathing issues and tuning to rule out first before I blame it on the electrics.

Hook up a battery and rule out the charging system first, lest you find yourself chasing ghosts.