Author Topic: Fuel Screw help  (Read 1583 times)

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Offline foomcb5f

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Fuel Screw help
« on: April 08, 2021, 11:27:58 AM »
1973 Cb500f

Where is the fuel screw located? Can someone post a diagram or link please. Cannot seem to identify the right screw.

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:30:02 AM by foomcb5f »

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2021, 11:36:37 AM »
What exactly are you refering to? Look for an illustrated  parts break down (IPB) diagram for the machine online. There are plenty of them out in WWW land. Try CMS or Partzilla for starters.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:43:12 AM by caluser2000 »
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline goodtryer

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 11:43:25 AM »
If these are the Keihin 027B carbs, look at carb #2 just above where the fuel T-connector enters the carb. Just above that is a port with a recessed screw. I think that's what you're looking for.

Once you see that position, you'll be able to see it on the other carbs, too.

Pay attention when/if you remove the screw. There's a small spring behind the screw.

Cheers

EDIT to add pic. Sorry, it's not the best perspective but it should help zero in on what I'm trying to describe. The screw is semi-hidden by that fuel hose.

These are the carbs off my project '73 500K. I'm not sure if that's what you have on the F-model.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:50:50 AM by goodtryer »
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
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1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 12:48:52 PM »
I am trying to adjust the fuel screw, having high idle, bike was from Idaho 2700 ft elevation and I am at 50 ft. Bike is running rich and idle is high, normal riding when clutch is engage is fine.

I guess the real question is does the 1973 cb500f have an external fuel mixture screw? I know there is a air mixture screw.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 12:58:05 PM by foomcb5f »

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2021, 12:59:49 PM »
If these are the Keihin 027B carbs, look at carb #2 just above where the fuel T-connector enters the carb. Just above that is a port with a recessed screw. I think that's what you're looking for.

Once you see that position, you'll be able to see it on the other carbs, too.

Pay attention when/if you remove the screw. There's a small spring behind the screw.

Cheers

EDIT to add pic. Sorry, it's not the best perspective but it should help zero in on what I'm trying to describe. The screw is semi-hidden by that fuel hose.

These are the carbs off my project '73 500K. I'm not sure if that's what you have on the F-model.

I believe you are referring to the air mixture screw.

I am looking for the fuel mixture screw, if there is one.

Offline goodtryer

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2021, 01:00:56 PM »
No, it won't have both.

Either an air screw (on the airbox side of the car, i.e. rear) OR a fuel screw (on the engine side, i.e. front).
"Tolerance will reach such a level that intelligent people will be banned from thinking so as not to offend the imbeciles."
-Dostoievski

1977 CB550K
1978 CB750K
1973 CB500K

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2021, 01:18:27 PM »
Foomcb5f, according to the overview I've composed (see the attachment below), your air screws (that's what they are) should be two turns out. This is because you live in the US. Elsewhere it is one turn out. I'd start there and then see what it does. If the idle still doesn't come down to say 1100 rpm - I assume you know where the big knob is, to adjust the idle* - it's a pound to a penny, you have an airleak somewhere. It is quite easy to detect this. Have the bike idle and spray some brakecleaner between the carbs and rubber boots at the intake manifold and between the manifold and the head. In the latter spot there are O-rings that maybe have gone hard and become brittle. If you do not witness a change in rpm, the connections are tight and OK. In that case I'd experiment with the airscrews one turn out, in stead of two, because there is a chance your CB500 is jetted like the CB500s in Europe.
Success and keep us informed. BTW, what airfilter do you run? Oh... I almost forgot, turning the airscrews out (CC wise) will lean out the mixture which will raise the rpm, turning the airscrews in (clockwise) will enrich the mixture and bring down the rpm.
* Under the tank, RH side, just above the carbs.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 01:24:28 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2021, 01:36:25 PM »
Foomcb5f, according to the overview I've composed (see the attachment below), your air screws (that's what they are) should be two turns out. This is because you live in the US. Elsewhere it is one turn out. I'd start there and then see what it does. If the idle still doesn't come down to say 1100 rpm - I assume you know where the big knob is, to adjust the idle* - it's a pound to a penny, you have an airleak somewhere. It is quite easy to detect this. Have the bike idle and spray some brakecleaner between the carbs and rubber boots at the intake manifold and between the manifold and the head. In the latter spot there are O-rings that maybe have gone hard and become brittle. If you do not witness a change in rpm, the connections are tight and OK. In that case I'd experiment with the airscrews one turn out, in stead of two, because there is a chance your CB500 is jetted like the CB500s in Europe.
Success and keep us informed. BTW, what airfilter do you run? Oh... I almost forgot, turning the airscrews out (CC wise) will lean out the mixture which will raise the rpm, turning the airscrews in (clockwise) will enrich the mixture and bring down the rpm.
* Under the tank, RH side, just above the carbs.

Thanks for the reply.

My air screw are 1.5 turns out, anymore than 2 turns and it does nothing.

I did diagnose a vacuum leak in #4, loose boot screws, which I fixed. The motor starts perfect at cold start with choke on, give it a minute or so and choke open all 100% bike idles fine. As the engine warms up the idle gets up higher than 2000 rpms (my rpm tachometer is dead atm). The Idle screw (single big knob on the right side) is back out all the way and the bike idle remains high, can't lower the rpm.

When I put it in 1st gear and and play with the clutch the bike idles fine (lower than 1600 rpms). Almost seems the pilot idle needle (if there is such thing) is sending too much fuel. maybe air screw open too much, but then when I turn the air screw to .75-1.25 turns the bike stalls at idle, not as stable.

carbs are probably crap unbalanced, dirty, or not synced. Bloody hell D all the above.

Btw it does have aftermarket jets from sigma6, don’t know what previous owner installed. Haven’t disassemble the carb yet.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 01:52:45 PM by foomcb5f »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2021, 01:58:18 PM »
There are several possible causes. It could be PO has played the mechanic, performed a sync and messed up by turning the sync adjusters thus far, it has resulted in a high idle that you now can't bring down again, as the central idle knob has a limited range. But this is not very likely.
You could also have a throttle cable that has not be installed correctly.
What you should know, is that for the CB500 the following is absolutely normal.
Read and reread the starting procedure prescribed in the Owner's Manual.
Before you start riding, open the choke flaps fully and with the throttle keep your engine at a raised idle until engine is warm enough to not stall.
Many CB500 owners use the big idle adjuster knob for that. I do it all the time. At the second traffic light I turn the idle adjuster back again. So you can do it the way Honda prescribes or by playing the idle adjuster knob. But it is perfectly normal that the engine needs a raised idle of say 2000 rpm for the first one or two miles. Do not ride with the chokes closed. Just use a raised idle, either with the throttle or the adjuster knob. So... it could well be, there is nothing wrong at all. :D
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Offline caluser2000

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2021, 02:23:48 PM »
I'm with Deltarider on this one. Personalty I think the 1,000rpm idle is far to low for the 500/550 range. I've set my '76 CB550Fs idle to a permanent 1200-1300rpm. Much better for around town and initial warm up. Less clutch rattle as well.
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2021, 02:26:18 PM »
Cold start idle, idle screw is already backed 100% out.

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2021, 02:28:28 PM »
After 5 minute ride, again I can’t back the idle screw out any further and it is already 100% backed off.

Should I expect a high idle with this vintage?

What I want to know is how do I lower the idle so I that I can maintain 1600 rpms at idle, and allow the idle knob to come into play

The bike performs fine when in gear.

You know what going to check air leaks again.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:34:04 PM by foomcb5f »

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2021, 02:41:28 PM »
Reread Deltariders post VERY VERY SLOOWLY.
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline middletons

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2021, 02:48:52 PM »
As Delta says above, the carbs can be set up wrong so that idle cannot be lowered past a certain point. so if you don't have any leaks, look into redoing the initial setup/bench sync again.

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2021, 02:48:58 PM »
Must be air leak on #1 carb and cylinder. I applied propane to the AirPods 2,3,4 and it lower the idle.

When I applied propane to #1 AirPods nothing happened. #1 is also burning cooler at the pipes than 2,3,4.

I am dealing with more than 1 issue here. fuel bowl for #4 is leaking.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 03:46:10 PM by foomcb5f »

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2021, 02:56:56 PM »
As Delta says above, the carbs can be set up wrong so that idle cannot be lowered past a certain point. so if you don't have any leaks, look into redoing the initial setup/bench sync again.

Got thanks

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2021, 03:00:27 PM »
Deltarider UNI filter pods as attached

Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2021, 03:54:23 PM »
Leaking fuel bow #4


Offline Deltarider

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2021, 03:49:11 AM »
The engine we hear in reply #10, doesn't sound bad at all, be it that rpm seems a bit low. Verify your tach is accurate or doublecheck with a digital one*. I've once worked on a CB550K3 that showed 1400 rpm on its ND tacho, that actually was a true 1000.
The engine idles too high in the vid in #11. You may find this thread worth reading. It is about an error on p.8 in the Shop Manual Honda CB500-550. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,184299.msg2133957.html#msg2133957 You may find the complete thread interesting.
I have no experience with other than stock airfilters, jets and exhausts**. I sincerely hope someone will soon be able to reproduce airfilter cases by 3D printing.
Where exactly does that carb leak fuel? Does fuel exit at its orifice or where the tube sits in the carb body? BTW, the airscrew of that carb looks to be screwed in quite deep. Could it be you accidently interpret 'a turn' as 180o where 360o is the norm?
*When I bought my automotive multimeter, they were a fortune. Nowadays you can find them for a reasonable price, hence my advice: if you need to buy a multimeter, if, then make it an automotive one. But you may also try to score a vintage tach/dwell tester. A dampened analogue indicator is so much nicer to work with than nervous ever changing digits. Downside: the latter is too big to have with you en route.
** I remember back in the day (in Europe) all aftermarket 4 in ones advertised with: no rejetting required. The only exception that I remember, was a special racing model by Sebring.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 04:23:56 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2021, 09:38:16 AM »
The idle gremlin was loose mixture screw.

Not sure if it will solve the wet foot bowl.


Offline foomcb5f

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2021, 10:03:10 AM »
Carbs are balance but now I get white smoke out of the pipe.

Will ride it around the block wee what happens. Need info on how to set idle screw, mixture, and air screw.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:04:52 AM by foomcb5f »

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2021, 10:23:31 AM »
a honda workshop manual has all those details and more. It is available in Pdf format free on a number of sites. Fix that carb leak first before going for a ride..
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2021, 10:25:23 AM »
I suggest you also read this thread slowly and completely http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186487.0.html
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2021, 10:35:51 AM »
The idle gremlin was loose mixture screw.

Not sure if it will solve the wet foot bowl.
The screws you point at with the screwdriver in the vid are NOT mixture screws, but the screws to sync. They raise/lower the slide. The air screws are the brass screws in the side of the carbs.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 11:12:12 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Ryan66

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Re: Fuel Screw help
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2021, 10:42:21 AM »
The idle gremlin was loose mixture screw.

Not sure if it will solve the wet foot bowl.
Those are NOT mixture screws, but the screws to sync. They raise/lower the slide.
Not sure if theres a language barrier here or what. BUt this guy does the opposite of what hes told and takes 2 steps back.
1976 CB550k (cafe project)