Topic: Regulator/Rectifier wiring Question.

[M Schepis]

Admittedly when it comes to wiring I am more than a little challenged. I thought I didn't need to take a picture pre-disassembly which I now realized was a mistake.  In the photo below, I have a red and black wire coming out the bottom of the regulator/rectifier. The red is connected to one side of the solenoid which  in turn is connected to the positive side of the battery, My question is where do I connect the black wire coming out of the bottom of the rectifier/regulator?  The starter wire is connected to the solenoid adjacent to the red?

[scottly]

The starter wire should go on the solenoid post, but the wire marked "black" looks like the battery negative wire that is between the frame and engine at the motor mount at the bottom end, not the reg/rect? The reg/rect does have a small black wire that plugs into a black wire from the harness, along with a white wire and a green wire that are connected to like colored harness wires. The three harness wires are hanging near the bottom left side of the solenoid in the pic.

[M Schepis]

Here is a better view of the wires coming out of the rec/reg. The black wire is the one in question.

[M Schepis]

It is a 7 wire unit, the 5 wire cluster are all connected here (see photo), the red to the solenoid, but the black is the one I’m not certain of. The frame ground is not in question. The odd thing is the black wire has a ring connector meaning it was either connected to the solenoid or the negative of the battery? (See photo)

[scottly]

The colors on your unit don't match the Honda colors. Do you mean the wire under your thumb with the purple wire? Did this work before, or is it new to the bike?

[scottly]

Is the wire below the red wire on the reg/rect the one with the ring on the end?

[M Schepis]

Yes, everything worked, let me attach a better photo. The colours are not the same on the regulator the the 3 white wires attach to the yellow of the harness the brown and green connect to the white and green on the harness. It’s just the black coming out of the bottom of the reg/rect I’m not certain of.

[M Schepis]

Yes the wire below the red one on the bottom of the rect/reg is the one with the ring on it

[scottly]

There should be 8 wires, not 7, and the red wire should be in the 5 wire gang plug, not connected to the solenoid. It does appear that the black wire in question is a ground wire, instead of the standard green, which is also in the gang plug normally.

[scottly]

the brown and green connect to the white and green on the harness.

So there is no wire connected to the harness black wire?

[M Schepis]

The Reg/Rec I have must be an odd ball or something different. I've been trying to find any markings or identification but there is only the number 1801 market on the back. Is a 7 wire incorrect for this bike?
I'm totally confused, wiring is my nemesis!!

[scottly]

Yes, there should be 8 wires, and if there isn't any wire connected to the black harness wire I don't see how the charging system was working properly?

[scottly]

If it was working properly with that reg/rect, perhaps the PO did some changes to the wiring? The black wire in question was probably connected to the battery negative terminal, so that's what I would do. I would definitely check the charging system once it's back together!

[bryanj]

The problem you have is connect 1 wire wrong for a fraction of a second and chances are you toasr the regulator

[Bodi]

Why did you disconnect the starter wire from the solenoid?
The original rectifier had 5 connections: to the battery "+" (red), alternator stator (3x yellow), and ground (green) all in a connector.
The original regulator has 3 connections: ground (green), black (key on power), and white (field coil), individual wires with spade terminals.
That is 8 connections in a stock system.
The combined unit needs all those connections but has no need for two grounds, both circuits can share one. So it needs 7 wires.
Stator, battery "+", and ground should be somewhat obvious I hope. So two wires left.
One is the power for the alternator field coil. The other goes to key-on power: to power the regulator electronics and supply the field coil power, and provide the reference voltage for regulation. Honds has the coil wire white and the key-on power black.
Where did you get this reg/rect? Maybe I can find more info if you got it online.
One issue is that Honda regulator controls the positive voltage to the field coil, the other coil wire is grounded. Some aftermarket reg/rect units control the ground side so the other coil wire has to be on +12V. Simple change really but you need to know to do it. Wrong way and you get zero field current and zero charging.
Also it's a good idea to add a small fuesd relay for the power input. Voltage drop through the harness can be significatnt, with the regulator trying to get it up to ~14V - it probably can't, but with a 1V+ drop the battery will overcharge if your alternator can actually make enough power. Also the field will be weak, reducing alternator output, if it's below battery voltage.

[Deltarider]

Do you still have the old rectifier and regulator lying around? It has been reported here more than once that one gets a rec/reg without a proper description. For me it would be a reason to send it back, btw. If one buys such an aftermarket rec/reg, is there a way, using a multimeter to identify the wires before installing?

[M Schepis]

Sorry for the late response, the wiring was taken apart because the motor was taken out for some work. In my haste I didn't photograph the original connection before disassembly. The reg/rectifier and whatever wiring changes were all PO, as the bike ran and I had no reason to assume something was not working in this area I didn't question the wiring, until now of course when I need to put it back together. This unit is very difficult to locate online as it has no identification and only the number 1801 marked on the back side., With the info you have all provided I intend to try to dig a little deeper before wiring it back together.    Please continue to provide any insight you may have as it is very helpful and appreciated.

[M Schepis]

Well in digging deeper removing and exposing wires it seems that the PO spliced a wire into the reg/rec's brown wire and connected it the original black (switched power?) going into the old regulator.  Recall that on this reg/rec the brown wire goes to the field white. Does this make any sense? It does solve the missing switched black wire. I'll try to create a schematic of what I have.

[scottly]

Is the stock regulator's black wire is sliced into the combo reg/rect's brown wire, or is the stock reg's white wire connected to the combo reg/rect's brown wire? I'm confused. There is no brown wire in the stock charging system. With the stock system, the black wire supplies 12v into the reg when the key is on, and the white wire supplies power out of the reg to the field coil on the white wire to create the magnetic field that controls the output of the alternator.

[scottly]

This is what the original regulator and rectifier look like:

[M Schepis]

So sorry for the confusion, I don’t have the original regulator or rectifier, I only have the combination unit. This units wire colours don’t match original exactly, wires out are 3 yellow, a brown, green, black and red. All but the brown and white match the bike, the brown wire is supposed to be what would be white, and the whites are supposed to be the yellow.The splice was on the reg/rec brown wire. I will try to show in the pictures attached.
Picture 1, shows the reg/rec wires 3 white(yellow-honda), brown (white-honda) red and black, also noticed the splice in brown wire.
Picture 2, shows the spliced wire from the rec/reg brown , connected to the old regulator black, with the other old unused, green and white .
Picture 3, shows the harness out of the stator with connector attaching 3 yellows with the 3 whites, green with the green and the white with the brown

Hope this helps I know how difficult it must be to try to interpret this mess.

[scottly]

So the reg/rect brown wire is connected to both the stock black wire AND the stock white field coil wire? The stock regulator controls the voltage going to the field coil on the white wire, and the green field coil wire is grounded through the main harness. (In the Honda world, all solid green wires are grounded) Some newer regulators feed a constant 12V to one end of the field, and control the output by varying the connection to ground on the other end of the field.

[M Schepis]

So is it possible that the spiced wire is supplying a constant current to (white field field) and if I connect the black reg/rec wire in question to negative of the battery this would would provide the control of the output. Given that this is a newer regulator?

[scottly]

It appears the combo unit's black wire is a common ground wire for both the regulator and rectifier, where the stock units each had a green ground wire. The combo unit's green wire is the controlled output of the regulator, if that makes sense. Bottom line is that once everything is hooked up and the key is on the field should be magnetized, which you can test at the three screws on the alternator housing.   

[M Schepis]

Thank you, I tried it but couldn't get it magnetized. What are the conditions, key to the on start button on and coil on? I also couldn't get the starter to engage either?