Topic: Performance alternators and starter motors.

[Gonzowerke]

Hey all,

I see aftermarket alternators, like the one at CycleX, and they say kickstart only. Why? What does the alternator have to do with the starter? It draws off the battery to start, not the alternator. What, if anything, am I missing?

Thanks,

Gonzo

[TwoTired]

What, if anything, am I missing?

The part where you pay Cycle x for the "performance upgrade".

[cbr954]

The aftermarket Cycle X alternator does not have the starter gear and clutch assembly.  There is noting for the starter to engage, thats why it is kick only.

[jonnycakes]

I've got it so I can run my Chobber with out a battery........

[Gonzowerke]

The aftermarket Cycle X alternator does not have the starter gear and clutch assembly.  There is noting for the starter to engage, thats why it is kick only.

 

Dammit! That never occurred to me, I was too busy thinking from the electrical side of things, and forgot how the starter engages on our bikes.

Thanks guys, for not calling me a dumbass!

[jonnycakes]

the moving part is light and tiny (rotating mass)

[MCRider]

the moving part is light and tiny (rotating mass)

The stock rotor can be made awful light, too light by some standards and still retain the elecric start hardware.

Another advantage for dropping the starter gear hardware is to narrow the overall package.

I think also the CycleX alternator produces less current and as a corrollary is less of a HP drag on the motor, (takes HP to make electricity)  to the tune of 2HP or so. I'm pretty sure this is in the promotional pieces about the alternator.  As such, it couldn't keep up the battery on a bike and an electric starter anyway.

OCICBW, electricity is not my strong suit.

[Gonzowerke]

the moving part is light and tiny (rotating mass)

The stock rotor can be made awful light, too light by some standards and still retain the elecric start hardware.

Another advantage for dropping the starter gear hardware is to narrow the overall package.

I think also the CycleX alternator produces less current and as a corrollary is less of a HP drag on the motor, (takes HP to make electricity)  to the tune of 2HP or so. I'm pretty sure this is in the promotional pieces about the alternator.  As such, it couldn't keep up the battery on a bike and an electric starter anyway.

OCICBW, electricity is not my strong suit.

I have other plans in the works for a slimmer alternator, from a more modern Honda streetbike, so charging shouldn't be an issue. This is going on my F so I can fit a CR750 Fairing without cutting a hole for the stock protuberance. I was just wondering about the Kickstart issue.

[MCRider]

Gonzo: Many have thought about it, none have done it that i know of. I would really like to hear if you have succcess grafting on a slimmer alternator.  Sans elect start of course.   

[scottly]

I think also the CycleX alternator produces less current and as a corrollary is less of a HP drag on the motor, (takes HP to make electricity)  to the tune of 2HP or so. I'm pretty sure this is in the promotional pieces about the alternator.  As such, it couldn't keep up the battery on a bike and an electric starter anyway.

OCICBW, electricity is not my strong suit.

The stock system draws/produces less than 1/3 HP (746 watts= 1HP)

[MCRider]

I think also the CycleX alternator produces less current and as a corrollary is less of a HP drag on the motor, (takes HP to make electricity)  to the tune of 2HP or so. I'm pretty sure this is in the promotional pieces about the alternator.  As such, it couldn't keep up the battery on a bike and an electric starter anyway.

OCICBW, electricity is not my strong suit.

The stock system draws/produces less than 1/3 HP (746 watts= 1HP)

I quickly defer to you.

Here's the link.
http://www.cyclexchange.net/Elec%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm

Comment on this claim?: (magnetic pull)  "Note: Honda's 3 Phase filed excited charging will create a magnetic pull when the regulator tells it. The magnetic pull call reduce horsepower. Reduced rotating weight and less magnetic pull makes the Cycle X Charging System the best choice."

[Gonzowerke]

Gonzo: Many have thought about it, none have done it that i know of. I would really like to hear if you have succcess grafting on a slimmer alternator.  Sans elect start of course.   

I have some weird ideas, and they involve retaining electric start, and fabbing a custom cover out of one of the many stock covers I have sitting around. I need to visit a junkyard too, and see iff they have the bike I set my sights on for the donor. It will be a later model with no excitement coil, and a solid state rectifier if all goes well.

[TwoTired]

I certainly agree with Scottly about the small Horsepower drain with the stock alternator.
The only saving grace would be the weight of the rotating mass.  Less weight in the flywheel effect does take less horsepower to change its inertial momentum.

I would suspect the most difference would be on a bike with minimum weight, that is just waiting for the engine RPM to pick up.

Seems like a waste for a street bike.  I can see it for racing/drag racing, etc. where people will trade money for extra margins in speed in tenths of a second.

Also note, that less flywheel can make idle speed, uh, less smooth and taking off from a stop require more throttle twist, as a lightened flywheel helps less at getting the bike to more forward smoothly.  Again, racers probably don't care about that.

Cheers,

[MCRider]

I certainly agree with Scottly about the small Horsepower drain with the stock alternator.
The only saving grace would be the weight of the rotating mass.  Less weight in the flywheel effect does take less horsepower to change its inertial momentum.

I would suspect the most difference would be on a bike with minimum weight, that is just waiting for the engine RPM to pick up.

Seems like a waste for a street bike.  I can see it for racing/drag racing, etc. where people will trade money for extra margins in speed in tenths of a second.

Also note, that less flywheel can make idle speed, uh, less smooth and taking off from a stop require more throttle twist, as a lightened flywheel helps less at getting the bike to more forward smoothly.  Again, racers probably don't care about that.

Cheers,

Thanks TT and Scottly, that clears things up about the drag and HP gain.  I readily admit my lack of knowledge on such things.

As to the other comments on weight, etc. I agree. Could be overkill on a streetbike.

I have seen a mild 836 that had an early weight rotor and the owner sheared off the end of the crank. Seen a few actually. I think the lighter K3 (CB750) OEM rotors probably are light enough to take care of that.

Lighter than that has tradeoffs with smooth idle, controlled launch etc.

[BLUE71TURBO]

 Here's a website with other options to run.........    

                                             http://www.hpi.be/kits.htm

[Retro Rocket]

Gonzo: Many have thought about it, none have done it that i know of. I would really like to hear if you have succcess grafting on a slimmer alternator.  Sans elect start of course.   

I have some weird ideas, and they involve retaining electric start, and fabbing a custom cover out of one of the many stock covers I have sitting around. I need to visit a junkyard too, and see iff they have the bike I set my sights on for the donor. It will be a later model with no excitement coil, and a solid state rectifier if all goes well.

Already been done on the forum mate, its in one of the fuel injection threads, a VF800 rotor and stator were used and if done without spacing the rotor to fit the stock cover,  18mm can be shaved off the stator cover..... I am thinking of doing something similar...

[Gonzowerke]

Gonzo: Many have thought about it, none have done it that i know of. I would really like to hear if you have succcess grafting on a slimmer alternator.  Sans elect start of course.   

I have some weird ideas, and they involve retaining electric start, and fabbing a custom cover out of one of the many stock covers I have sitting around. I need to visit a junkyard too, and see iff they have the bike I set my sights on for the donor. It will be a later model with no excitement coil, and a solid state rectifier if all goes well.

Already been done on the forum mate, its in one of the fuel injection threads, a VF800 rotor and stator were used and if done without spacing the rotor to fit the stock cover,  18mm can be shaved off the stator cover..... I am thinking of doing something similar...

Haven't been on in a while, just saw this. Thanks! I was looking at CBR parts, but will check into the VF!

[Retro Rocket]

Hi Gonzo, i should have said VFR 800....

Its somewhere in this thread mate...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=30624.0