Topic: Mongrel

[Damage Inc]

Hi all.
A few firsts here, first post on the forum, first thread, bought first road bike (AKA Mongrel) and about to embark on my first build project.

I've attempted to attach a photo of the bike.

After examining the vin numbers I believe I have a 72 CB500 engine in a 77 CB550 frame and 550 pipes. I wasn't thinking restoration before purchase, so I think it will be good for a cafe style build.

First question! Am I a 500 owner or 550? It was previously reg. as a 500 so that's the way I'm thinking. A big bore kit might confuse the issue.

When I purchased the bike, the barrel, head and carbs, were and still are, disassembled(not completely). Apparently it ran well but was smokey, so pre. owner changed rings and on reassembly pinched a ring and didn't go any further. Who knows! It has sat in this state for years I think. The barrel honed up nice. Carbs look ordinary as they have chrome flaking off them and missing a number of screw from the bottom plates. The only other things that I notice missing at the moment are, the battery and the chain guard. I'm not sure whether to reassemble the motor and try to get it running before I remove it from the frame(I'd need a new gasket kit) and then remove it or just pull the motor out and do the work to the top end(maybe a cam and get those carbs sparkling) and run the risk of not knowing the bottom end condition. On that subject, looking into the crank case, past the pistons, I cant see any oil down the bottom. I was wondering If I'd be doing the right thing if I dumped any oil and flush the crank case out, perhaps with diesel, I don't know. But I don't know if it was stored with the bottom end open with the barrel off and got dust in there?

Anyway I hope the photo worked. I've enjoyed the forum, its got a wealth of knowledge. Lots of fantastic Fours. I can't wait to hear mine run. I'm going to try and incorporate "Patience" and "Thoroughness" into the build.

Looking forward to some advice.   

[lucky]

Remember you are "Damage Inc."(your own words). you have that to work against. LOL...lol 

BTW the bottom ends on these Hondas are almost bullet proof.
Unless someone kept slamming down on the shift lever with a big boot,
you should be ok.

[Damage Inc]

 Yeh, Thx Lucky. I'm hoping that I haven't put the Mozz on myself before I've even started.

I think I'll clean up the top end, put some new rings and seals in it, put it back together and see If I can get it started. Before I do the strip down.

I'm feeling a bit of a Tribute theme coming along with the build.

[Damage Inc]

While I wait for my new rings and gaskets to arrive, I have a couple of questions. I haven't bought new pistons, mainly because funds are tight. I've been told I should replace them, even though there is little wear and they are well within the serviceable parameters. There is some scratching and pitting on the tops. pics below, Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Is it worth my while getting the head and cam checked by a specialist while its off? (I don't really know what I'd be looking for)

As this is a 500 in a 550 frame, the exhaust (sankei 2024) is 550 I think, it wasn't attached when I got the bike and there was no flanges. My questions are what flanges do I need, are 500 and 550 flanges the same? Ive used the forums search to try and find the answers, with little success. I'm not sure how it all bolts up as my service manual doesn't cover it in any detail and I've had no experience in this area.

The carbs are in need of a clean up, so I'm starting another build project... A soda blasting booth. I'll take some pics and post this build as well.

Any feedback or links would be muchly appreciated..  

[Damage Inc]

Having trouble attaching pics.

[wedoo2]

You may want to open a Photobucket account and store your pictures there.  Then, all you have to do when you want to post a picture is to copy the "direct link" under that pic, come back to your reply here, click the Mona Lisa icon and paste in the link.  Works great.  Be sure to size your picture before uploading to Photobucket to something like 800 x 600, or smaller.  Will watch the build.

[grcamna2]

I think you should clean those pistons up in an aluminum carb cleaner type special soak and use them..as long as the sides,edges and ring gaps are in good condition.

[LesterPiglet]

Pistons look servicable. It looks like you have an F frame or a late K.

[lucky]

Yeh, Thx Lucky. I'm hoping that I haven't put the Mozz on myself before I've even started.

I think I'll clean up the top end, put some new rings and seals in it, put it back together and see If I can get it started. Before I do the strip down.

I'm feeling a bit of a Tribute theme coming along with the build.

If you put new rings in a cylinder that has a ridge at the top
 it could break the piston rings. Make sure to check the cylinders and measure them.

[lucky]

You may want to open a Photobucket account and store your pictures there.  Then, all you have to do when you want to post a picture is to copy the "direct link" under that pic, come back to your reply here, click the Mona Lisa icon and paste in the link.  Works great.  Be sure to size your picture before uploading to Photobucket to something like 800 x 600, or smaller.  Will watch the build.

Actually 640 X480 pixels and then every computer user can see the whole image without scrolling.

[rb550four]

Looks like the 77k according to the sidecovers, the 76k  had smaller smaller ones, the F is a little longer  but doesn't have a relief for the seat latch. it should have an ID tag on the steering head and punched serial# on the shifter side of the head , if you were in N.Y. you would register it as the 550. There was also a taillight change on the 77kand it looks like you have it.
  As for the cam, you should be looking for excessive wear marks on the 4 areas that make contact with the head and valve cover.Check your shop manual for lobe tolerances, also check for pitting , chipping ,shinny spots (excessive wear). if it checks out use it. You do have a shop manual right? Don't forget to check your lifters (tappets) for wear. I reseat ( Lap) each valve before it goes together..insures a proper seal during compression stroke and it's the only time to install new valve seals... While the head is off and the pistons are out ( if you are doing an in frame rebuild ) Check your primary chain for slack ...excessive length and side to side slack. Now's the time to check ,before you start the rebuild,otherwise you'll have to break it all down ,pull it out of the frame and split the cases. You are half ways there now, so now's the time to take a look and see if this is something that you need to do. primary chain around $150. Your  cam chain/timing chain is another one but you can't check it in it's present state , It's a good one to change if you split the cases, although there is an aftermarket chain available with a masterlink if you trust them for repair at a later date. If your chain breaks you may be looking at some valves and pistons too. Just a thought. I have a bastardized 500/550 here and find it interesting what parts do and don't crossover, it's loads of fun . I'll be watching your thread. Nice project so have fun. and get a shop manual.

[Damage Inc]

Thanks for the photobucket tips Wedoo2 and Lucky. I think I've got that sorted.
Progress is slow, but that doesn't bother me, as the last thing I want to do is rush it. Lucky as far as the cylinders look, top and bottom I've checked with the vernier(ok) but I think I'll chase up a cylinder gauge, as the middle is most important.
LesterPiglet and grcamna2, you have convinced me to at least remove and clean/check the pistons.
rb550four thanks for all the good info. Your point about the serial# is spot on, unfortunately the bike was once stolen and recovered, at that time the head was tampered with and the only clear part was "CB550". I checked with the local at hourities as to any problems I might incur and got the all clear. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth and all I can hope is justice was served on the culprit and the victim. The bike was last registered in the 80's after the theft and I think its been off the road for over ten years.
My plan is to put the motor back together, while still in the frame and see if it runs. So I'm putting the top end back together with a view to leaving it together. I want to mock it all up to see what frame mods I'll need to do or not do, and possibly tank scallops for the clip ons I've got. I need to know where the rearsets will go to suit my height(5'10").
 I downloaded the shop manual, it was almost identical to the service manual I've got, but it has some extra info, which has helped.
I got onto some exhaust flanges off sohcfour classifieds, so all I need for the assemble is new piston pin clips and 1 dowelpin between crank case cylinders. I've started my blast cabnet build to do the engine/carby/tank etc. The cam has a chip and little wear so I'm not sure what I'll do there yet. I might go take a photo of it now and put it up with some others

[Damage Inc]

Sorry everyone.
My photos didn't work

[Damage Inc]

[Damage Inc]

[Damage Inc]

[grcamna2]

Those are Very excellent & clear pictures.

[Damage Inc]

Those are Very excellent & clear pictures.

Thanks, I just trying to improve my posting skills while I'm getting engine parts together. Received my exhaust flanges from Plymouth to Victoria, Australia today. Still trying to track down a dowel pin, I'll try some wreckers tomorrow.

[wedoo2]

Dialed in now.  I get the pictures of the crappy carburetors and the pipes, but what is in the box?  A surprise for us?

[Damage Inc]

Dialed in now.  I get the pictures of the crappy carburetors and the pipes, but what is in the box?  A surprise for us?

The box is a gutted fridge, with a perspex panel on the front.
I want to add a viewing panel in the perspex as well as a couple of hand access holes. A light inside, an air jack, venting(perhaps exhaust fan?).
And I'll have myself a blasting booth, that's the plan anyway.

[Damage Inc]

Hope someone can help me
I need to purchase new valves. I found on ebay, 4X genuine inlet for $99 +POST or  Nippon for $6 each + post. Has anyone had any experience with these brands??
Also struggling to find Exhaust valves other than 1 here and there.
Does anyone know of somewhere other than ebay to purchase these items?
Also where will I find new piston pin clips?
Any help will be much appreciated..

[rb550four]

Honda still has piston clips unless I bought the last ones....I get them in a 10 pack Honda # 94601 15000 for both the 500's and 550's.

[Damage Inc]

Got my cam back, no more chips and nice clean surfaces. Good news, the cam man says he worked on this cam years ago. It has a mod, a mild sports profile. I'll get the specs on Mon. when I pick up the head with its new valves. I'll drop in the rockers for a clean up then as well.
I've put the clip ons were I think they will go, now I think I have to put dents into the tank to give some more clearence. I'm thinking knee dents as well, but I'll have to wait till I've got my cafe seat and decide on rearset position(either at rear peg point or rear brake pivot point) then I'll know my riding posture.
Found something else missing, when I removed the rocker pins, only one had this little plug with o-ring. I cant find its part name or number mentioned in my manuals
Next job get some rebuild kits for these carbs.
Thx rb550four I get those clips and o-ring plugs at the same time I hope

[Damage Inc]

I picked my head with new valves and seals, valve seats and ports done as well.
pick up piston clips early next week, then I'll have all my bits to put it back together.
That leaves me with the carby rebuild. Need to save some bucks to get 4x rebuild kits, in the mean time I start stripping them down.

[Mcwilliams570]

Looking good so far keep it up.

Matt