Author Topic: Honda CB 500F Restore (Read 6118 times)

Mo · « **on:** July 29, 2012, 05:21:10 PM »

Good Evening All,

I've been lurking through this forum for a long time but just made an account! Whoo!!

Anyway, I just picked up an old CB 500F for 300 dollars and am making my first attempt at a restore. I was making some progress and a few questions came up that I was hoping to get answered.

1. So my engine is partially stuck. Not completely stuck though. I removed the old oil, put in some fresh stuff. When I remove the side covers to gain access to the camshaft bolt, I am able to turn it a little bit in either direction (about 60 degrees total). Past that, it gets stick. Is my engine seized or is this normal?

2. My throttle seems disconnected. I tried to remove the assembly and see what was going on, but the two philips screws were rusted in pretty badly. Despite using PB Blaster and going slowly, I've completed stripped the screw. Does anyone know how I can remove the bad screws?

3. The back wheel doesn't turn. Not entirely sure whats going on there. Any ideas?

4. The rear shocks seem to have a lot of surface rust. Will this be okay structurally, or do they need to be replaced?

5. The clutch is pretty tight. When I go to disengage it pulling the left lever on the handlebar, theres quite a bit of resistance. Is that normal/will it get better in time and use?

Aside from that, the bike is in surprisingly decent shape. The muffler is gone, but the pipes look good (only minor rusting). I got the carbs off and plan on going over those. The tank was unsurprisingly gross, but I'm currently working on getting that back up and good. All the electrics work well.

bryanj · « **Reply #1 on:** July 29, 2012, 10:45:31 PM »

(1) Bad rust in bores or a valve stuck open

(2) Drill the heads off then try and remove the threaded bit with vice grips after the switch is off

(3) Brake adjusted too tight, linings detached from shoes, cast liner in drum bdly corroded, bearings U/S chain U/S, engine in gear or any combination of these

(4) from picture structuraly OK, just ugly and probably don't work well now anyway

(5) No it needs new cacle plus stripping and cleaning the operating mechanism.

Now having given you some answers can you tell me the vin number and build date from the plate on the RH side of the frame headstock plus the engine number for my records as i am trying to build up a definitive list--If you don't want to post here a PM or direct e-mail would do nicely

harisuluv · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2012, 02:20:55 AM »

I'd take it for $300 bucks all day. bryanj gave you some very good advice.

vames · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2012, 04:12:47 AM »

I may be wrong, but I don't think that there was a CB500F (F being the super sport identifier) -- just CB500. I guess if you put a 4-1 exhaust on it you could call it an F, but I don't think that was how they came from the factory.

cgswss · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2012, 04:31:36 AM »

First, GET A HAMMER DRIVER

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4607-Impact-Driver/dp/B000IHWEWM/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1343646204&sr=8-23&keywords=hammer+driver

There are a lot like this, I like the type that the bit holder comes off and you can use with a socket

If you don't already have one, get a rotary tool

http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-100-N-Single-Speed-Rotary/dp/B002BAHF64/ref=sr_1_19?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1343646367&sr=1-19&keywords=rotary+tool

get a supply of these

http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-409-Cut-off-Wheels-thick/dp/B00004UDGX/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

You can use the cut off disk to cut a "slot" in the screw they use the hammer driver in that slot to remove messed up screws.

once you have the hammer driver, use it to loosen and screws FIRST, before you use a screw driver.

My suggestion would be to stop right now on trying to turn over the engine. dump some ATF (Automatic transmission fluid) into each cylinder and start stripping the bike. The pistons will most likely slide down much easier then push up. So pull the head and work the jug off. Of course you are going to need a gasket set to put stuff back together. You should hone the cylinders and put in new rings as well.

While you have the head off you can leak test the head and of course start reading all the "clean the carbs" threads

I know there are a million guys on here that managed to break an engine loose and get it running, but why spend hundreds of hours trying to get something running, only to have it be "almost right" If you just bite the bullet from the start you will avoid a lot of guessing.

My personal feeling is that you get the engine down first, then screw with the other stuff like while the carbs are soaking

chickenman_26 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2012, 04:35:09 AM »

Quote from: malkaysi on July 29, 2012, 05:21:10 PM

Aside from that, the bike is in surprisingly decent shape.

That depends on what you want to make of it - parts bike, daily rider, or complete restore. It's a first year CB500 - a 1971 model. Judging by the looks of it and your description of the issues you've found so far (you'll be finding more for sure), plan on spending $1,500 just to get it safe to ride and running properly - and that's assuming you do all the labor yourself.

Stu

Mo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2012, 08:28:25 AM »

@bryanj: Thanks for the advice thus far. I'm gonna pm you in the info you wanted. Ill take a look at the rear wheels later on I guess. I think for now my priority will be to get the engine running.

@cgswss: Thanks for the explanation on getting the screws out. Ill be trying that (hopefully) this weekend. I'm sort of new at this so I'm not entirely sure that I want to be doing a complete engine break down. Ill soak the engine for now with the ATF (I hear its good to cut it with acetone?) tonight and see what happens after a few days. When I push the kick starter, should there be any resistance?

@chickenman_26: Thanks for the advice. I was planning on making this my first "daily rider" as in only a few times a week (I'm in MI so the riding season isn't that long). I've never ridden a bike before, and I picked this is up knowing it would have a lot of work. It's a project. I'd like to have it at least starting by the end of the summer, but again I'm patient. As for the costs, I plan on doing the work myself and I really am looking to have fun.

Is it possible that the engine isn't spinning because its stuck in gear? I tried to put the bike in neutral, but when I shift, I can only move up/down once.

Mo · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:38:19 PM »

Just added the ATF & Aceton mix through the 4 spark plug holes.

Also ordered the hammer driver off of amazon.com too.

Mo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2012, 04:10:18 PM »

So I think my engine may be "stuck" because I am not in neutral. When I try to get it neutral, I can only engage once either up or down. I feel like theres something wrong there. Thoughts?

Teatimetim · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:54:35 PM »

rolling the back tire or the bike as you shift up or down will help you move it through the gears.. you want to go down as far as you can, then neutral is between 1st and second. its kinda of a sweet spot, once in neutral it should roll.

I would take out all the plugs, and use seafoam or some other agent and soak the cylinders for several days, and while I was doing that I would tear down the airbox, and pull the carbs off. They need to start soaking.

Get a Clymer manual and download the manual from here. Your going to need to learn how it all works to make it work.

spark at the right time, gas in the right amount, and air and you got a running motor.

read the Faqs here, many people have done what you are about to. Its a good journey.

Mo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2012, 08:10:24 PM »

Yup. So I have taken out the sparks and poured ATF/Acetone into the cylinders. My back wheel doesn't move (could that be because I'm stuck in gear or because its just locked up?) If its locked up, I can take it off this weekend and try to get it rolling again.

I guess I'm just wondering if my being stuck in gear could be the cause of a lot of these problems!

Teatimetim · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2012, 05:59:51 AM »

yes the tire will not move much if it is stuck in first or second, try sitting on it, rocking it, while moving the gear shift up and down with your foot.. or try to pull in the clitch if the cable works and see if it rolls.

Mo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:02:08 PM »

Pulling in the clutch still doesn't allow me to roll. I seemed to have messed something up with this as now I don't even hear any clicks.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #13 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:12:52 PM »

The rear wheel will move a small amount if it's in gear, it won't if the brake is seized up.

Sitarz84 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:17:51 PM »

I recently discovered screw exctraction kits. They work very well for getting out stripped screws and theyre very simple.

Sitarz84 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:21:07 PM »

Screw extractor | easyout | broken bolt removal

this is the video that helped me with getting out the stripped screw, in this case I think the head was broken off completely

Duanob · « **Reply #16 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:34:07 PM »

Everyone here has good advice stemming from past experiences on these bikes. A bike sitting around and not being ridden has its own issues.

My advice? Buy new cables you will thank yourself later. Buy a top end gasket kit, you will be replacing gaskets and seals as you go, its a hell of lot cheaper to buy a whole kit. Vesra is generally pretty good. Beware of cheap kits I had a bad fitting headgasket and replaced it twice. Buy honda carb rebuild gasket kits (4) don't worry about the full kit with the jets you may not need them. If the chain is rusty at all replace it. Removing it will tell you alot of where your stuck wheel issues come from. Get the motor running first by starting with a 3000 mile tune up and oil change. If the head has to come off then its fairly straight forward and not the end of the world. Do some research here and ask questions you will get through it, we all did. Once the engine roars back to life then putting time and effort into the rest of the bike makes more sense.

Mo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2012, 07:15:50 PM »

Just wanted to post a quick update!!

So I pulled the carbs, the airbox, and the engine out (holy crap that was heavy). I ordered a carb rebuilt kit off of ebay (49.99 total) and am looking into buying the engine gasket set now for around the same price. New push/pull throttle cables are on their way too.

With the chain off, the sprocket turns freely. This tells me that the rear wheel itself is stuck. Still not sure about the engine though as the kick start still won't turn the engine over. (I'm starting to think it could be the starter motor but honestly I'm not sure). I poured oil down the spark plug wells and the engine turns over a little better from the crank shaft bolt so still not sure.

Up next: Engine top end rebuild (I doubt I would need any bottom end work). Is there anyway to verify my transmission is okay without opening up the case?

Anyway, once I get the engine and carbs rebuilt, I look into the rear wheel and the front brake system and hopefully that would be enough to get it running! She's a bit rusty but I have faith!

Here's some progress photos.

Mo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2012, 07:17:47 PM »

Stev-o · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2012, 07:31:17 PM »

Sounds like your rear brake is stuck. Pull rear wheel

Mo · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2012, 12:28:38 PM »

Another Update!

So With the engine off and the bike (finally) in neutral, I was able to kick the engine over. The engine's been drained of oil so I didn't want to mess with it too much but I can now kick it completely over several times. It still feels "stuck" on some point in the revolution so I think a top end rebuild would be the best move.

The transmission is shifting through all gears though (there's 5, correct?) and the kick start motor seems to be doing okay!

Stev-o · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2012, 12:36:34 PM »

Pull the valve cover off the top and kick it over a few times [easy if you pull the plugs]. Sounds like something is amiss.

Yes, 5 gears. will the rear wheel spin?

Mo · « **Reply #22 on:** September 03, 2012, 01:03:08 PM »

Will do as soon as I pick up some PB blaster as I have just run out. It looks like most of these screws are going to shot to hell. Any good source for new screw sets?

Once the cover is off, What sort of trouble should I be looking for?

The rear wheel is definitely stuck, most likely the drum brake. I plan on pulling it out and fixing it (they're rusted to hell anyway) but I wanted to take care of the engine/carb stuff first.

Stev-o · « **Reply #23 on:** September 03, 2012, 01:15:47 PM »

Do you have an impact driver? if not, it is a must. Only about $10-15.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Great-Neck-4-Bits-Impact-Driver-Set/_/N-25dw?itemIdentifier=529289_0_0_

sixthwisconsin · « **Reply #24 on:** September 03, 2012, 01:35:03 PM »

Hi,
I found most replacement screws, nuts, bolts I needed at the local hardware store. Granger is pretty good about selling small quantities of these as well.

A little motivation for you...
The day the motor went back in the bike.
Its my favorite shot of the entire build because I finally saw the end in sight!

Mo · « **Reply #25 on:** September 03, 2012, 02:24:34 PM »

Thats a gorgeous looking bike! Thanks for the motivation!

Mo · « **Reply #26 on:** September 06, 2012, 09:29:45 PM »

Okay so I'm almost done rebuilding the carbs, and had a quick question. The rebuild kit I purchased included 4 slow jets, however one was incorrect and didn't fit.

Is it okay to use 3 new slow jets and one of the old? Also, do the slow jets have a hole through them? They've been soaking for hours and I tried running compressed air & a brush wire through but nothing seems to expose a potential hole.

Thanks!

LoVel · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2012, 06:02:25 AM »

Quote from: malkaysi on September 02, 2012, 07:15:50 PM

So I pulled the carbs, the airbox, and the engine out (holy crap that was heavy).

Sorry not an answer to your slow jet question but I love the heavy comment. I still have scars from the header bolts and I put my engine back in almost two months ago.

Mo · « **Reply #28 on:** September 07, 2012, 12:30:34 PM »

Okay so (another) update!

Got the carbs put back together (used the old slow jets since I was able to clear em). and they look good to go now!

The engine is pretty much kicking over consistently now so I'm thinking a top end job might not be need right now.

Next step, pull the rear wheel, and get it unstuck. Once thats done, and my new cables arrive, I'll putting it all back in and hopefully breathing her back to life!

Mo · « **Reply #29 on:** September 10, 2012, 07:45:46 AM »

So I'm gearing up to start this baby up but I had a few questions regarding the process.

Since I don't want to pour money into this baby too badly until I know the engine works correctly, I was planning on just installed the carbs, airbox, engine, tank, and related cables and then check to see if it will start. I know my rear tire is punctured and the wheel is stuck. My questions:

1. Can I start the bike with the rear wheel/chain disconnected at the block? (I don't see why not but you never know)
2. If I do get it started and let it idle/run for ~30 min, will this heat the engine block adequately enough for a decent compression test?
3. Will I need a battery for this?

My goal once the bike runs is to evaluate the engine's performance, get new tires, fix the rear wheel and then ride it around a little and see what else needs to be improved. I just don't want to dish out $300 for tires, chain etc without knowing the engine at least fires up.

Scott S · « **Reply #30 on:** September 10, 2012, 09:18:41 AM »

You will need a battery. I wouldn't let it run for that long without a fan blowing on it.

Mo · « **Reply #31 on:** September 16, 2012, 06:06:54 PM »

So I'm in the process of rebuilding the top end. Cleaned the pistons and the cylinders. They looked good and the clearances were well within spec. I put the cylinders back in and had a quick question.

I put them back in and upon turning the shaft to make sure all is well, they pistons squeak a little. Is this normal? I spray some PB blaster for sume lubrication but I was wondering if there was something else I should do.

Mo · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2012, 11:23:12 AM »

Hello All:

So I have most of this thing put back together. Engine rebuild done, carbs done, tank lined, new fuel lines, etc etc.

I am trying to start it up but something is off. First, there is gas flowing from the tank to the carbs as I can see it from the fuel line. The lights are working (there was a bad fuse but I replaced that). I have two gallons of gas in the tank.

I don't have a clue as to where the electric starter button is, but using the kickstart, nothing happens. Kill switch is set to on. How do you start this thing?

SohRon · « **Reply #33 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:24:18 PM »

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=109551.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=5135.0
http://www.hondahobby.no/Engine-Emergency

Just a few of the results I got using the search function and the phrase "CB500 won't start". They'll get you headed in the right direction; you might try the search yourself. After you've completed the steps outlined in these posts it should start. If not, come back here and let us know.

To try to help clear up some confusion, the "F" on the side panel ("CB500F") refers to the fact that it's a CB500F(our), or a four cylinder engine as opposed to the CB500T(win) with a two cylinder engine and, in fact, nearly all of the SOHC/4 bikes use the "F" for "Four" on the side panels - some of the later ones actually spell it out. However, the actual model, if it's a first year 500, would be a "K0", or "CB500K0" (technically, it would be a "CB500FK0", meaning a "CB500 Four, model K0", but nobody actually uses this convention).

Honda threw a monkey wrench into this simple code by introducing the "CB550F0" in 1975, a sport bike based on the CB550K, so nowadays whenever someone refers to their "F" bike it is understood to mean the post-'75 sport bike (which, since it's a SOHC engne, would technically be a "CB550FF0"). Confusion arises when refering to a CB500"F" as the CB500 had been discontinued (at least in America) years before the actual "F" models were introduced.

Now that I've made things clear as mud, carry on and good luck with the project!

Deltarider · « **Reply #34 on:** September 26, 2012, 03:23:29 AM »

Best to name them by their Parts List names.
For the 550's:
CB550, CB550K1, CB550K2'76, CB550K3 and CB550K4 (all 4 in 4)
CB550F, CB550F1 and CB550F2 (all 4 in 1).
For the 500's:
CB500, CB500K1, CB500K2, CB500K2 [ED, F, G], CB500K3.
Differences can be detected in the Honda Shop Manual to be found at http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/shop-manual and the respective Parts Lists (except CB550F1 and CB550F2) also te be found at our Italian brothers: http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list
I do not know of any Honda documents that refer to K0 models.

News:

Author Topic: Honda CB 500F Restore (Read 6118 times)