Author Topic: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..  (Read 5717 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline toytuff

  • "watching the pinheads"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,349
Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« on: September 29, 2012, 04:08:38 PM »
This might be another oil thread huh?  ;D

I have a local gas station that sells 110 octane fuel. We have a lot of boaters that visit the area. I've often wondered if I bought X amount and mixed it with Y (unleaded). Say half and half for example if it would be better for the old Honda's we ride.

In a 1981 Honda CBX article they used both with unleaded at 91 octane. Of course they didn't have this alcohol BS either.

Good, not good or why do it at all?

tt

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,484
  • Central Texas
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 04:18:16 PM »
Is the 110 leaded?  if yes, lead is supposedly better for old engines [pre '72] as it acts as a lubricant for the valve guides.

Honestly, I do not think it would make a noticeably differance on our bikes.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline toytuff

  • "watching the pinheads"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,349
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 04:27:45 PM »
Is the 110 leaded?  if yes, lead is supposedly better for old engines [pre '72] as it acts as a lubricant for the valve guides.

Honestly, I do not think it would make a noticeably differance on our bikes.

Yes, leaded. Forgot to add that.

The CB 750 runs fine. It's the CBX. It likes good fuel. (if there is any)

tt

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,629
  • liverpool
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 04:30:23 PM »
thats what i do with my racing bikes , 50% 115 octane race fuel 50% best grade unleaded . stops detonation and works very well on the track but i agree with stev-o on the road i think it would make little difference .
it wont do any harm though so why not give it a try and see what you think .

Offline toytuff

  • "watching the pinheads"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,349
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 04:35:55 PM »
I was thinking two gallons 110 and three super unleaded. I also bought a case of octance boost from Amsoil.

Will see.

Fuel is just getting, well, sad.

tt

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mob.aspx

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,629
  • liverpool
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2012, 05:28:09 PM »
at least your fuel is cheap toytuff , wait till it gets over $10 a gallon like it has here .

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 05:30:30 PM »
If bloody China keeps growing at the rate it is, fossil fuel will be too expensive to buy soon... :o
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline BLUE71TURBO

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,849
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 05:41:44 PM »
I was thinking two gallons 110 and three super unleaded. I also bought a case of octance boost from Amsoil.

Will see.

Fuel is just getting, well, sad.

tt

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mob.aspx

     Don't waste yer $$$ on octane boosters. They don't work as advertised.  It's been tested many times and proven to be a waste of money.  As for mixing high octane fuel.... hell yes !  Av gas ( avation fuel ) works great and is cheaper that racing fuel for street use.   ;)
Remember; Before you can be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid !

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,484
  • Central Texas
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 05:43:24 PM »
at least your fuel is cheap toytuff , wait till it gets over $10 a gallon like it has here .

Only $3.43 here [87 octane w/10% ethenol]
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 06:13:38 PM »
If bloody China keeps growing at the rate it is, fossil fuel will be too expensive to buy soon... :o

Make that China and India.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 06:18:03 PM by Bob Wessner »
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Roach Carver

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2012, 06:20:58 PM »
Whatever octane prevent pinging is what you should use. You actually want the lowest octane you can run while still preventing pinging.

Offline Johnie

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,622
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2012, 06:21:57 PM »
The no ethanol regular grade just hit $4.21 here in WI.
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2012, 06:39:58 PM »
If bloody China keeps growing at the rate it is, fossil fuel will be too expensive to buy soon... :o

Make that China and India.

Yep, throw India in there as well.... :o
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,484
  • Central Texas
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 06:50:04 PM »
The no ethanol regular grade just hit $4.21 here in WI.

I would gladly use that in my bikes if I had a choice.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline LesterPiglet

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,046
  • 1977 CB550F2
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »
If I put $8.0685 (£5) in my bike I'm lucky to get out of the street.  ::)
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,629
  • liverpool
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2012, 03:34:55 AM »
Whatever octane prevent pinging is what you should use. You actually want the lowest octane you can run while still preventing pinging.

why is that roach carver ?

Offline toytuff

  • "watching the pinheads"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,349
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2012, 03:59:37 AM »
Uh Oh, it's an oil thread!

 ;D

tt

Offline Roach Carver

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,725
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2012, 05:44:13 AM »
Purely my understanding from when I raced cars as well as some research.. The reason for a higher octane is in high compression engines where a lower octane can combust prematurely under compression. Not under spark which causes predetonation. Octane higher than whats required makes no more power in a lower compression engine.
Whatever octane prevent pinging is what you should use. You actually want the lowest octane you can run while still preventing pinging.

why is that roach carver ?

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2012, 07:47:46 AM »
In spite of popular misconceptions, higher octane fuel does not contain more energy than regular.  It only resists detonation better.  If you're using a higher octane than is required for the application, you're spending more money for zero gain.

Offline Brandedone88

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2012, 08:40:07 AM »
I couldn't have said it better.  The reason why a lot of guys are mixing the higher octane fuel is because of the lead issue with pre-1972 motorcycles.  But Honda's valves were already hardened so there shouldn't be any issues associated with unleaded fuels.  However because of the ethanol fuel additive that we are forced to use in the states, guys are no begining to mix aviation fuel, racing fuel,etc. as an attempt to minimize the determintal effects of ethanol (gummed up carbs, loss of performance,etc.)

Offline simon#42

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,629
  • liverpool
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2012, 08:56:10 AM »
Purely my understanding from when I raced cars as well as some research.. The reason for a higher octane is in high compression engines where a lower octane can combust prematurely under compression. Not under spark which causes predetonation. Octane higher than whats required makes no more power in a lower compression engine.
Whatever octane prevent pinging is what you should use. You actually want the lowest octane you can run while still preventing pinging.

why is that roach carver ?

yes i agree , i normally come at it from the other angle . we are given a control fuel and i build the engine to suit .

i was just curious you may have had another reason , am always keen to learn

Offline Johnie

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,622
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2012, 09:26:22 AM »
So what is the deal with you guys in the other states? Don't you have anyone selling no ethanol blend? I have 2 in my city in WI. Like I mentioned above I paid $4.21 yesterday for it. I have been using it in my 750's since it became available a few years ago. Funny thing is I see a lot of cars at these stations all the time. They seem more busy than the others stations.
1970 CB750K0 - Candy Ruby Red
1973 CB750K3 - Candy Bacchus Olive or Sunflake Orange
1970 Chevy Chevelle SS396 - Cortez Silver
1976 GL1000 Sulphur Yellow

Oshkosh, WI  USA

Offline toytuff

  • "watching the pinheads"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,349
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2012, 09:46:34 AM »
None in Arizona that I know of. Just the 110 stuff down the street and Av-gas.

tt

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,898
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2012, 10:08:34 AM »
Yeah Johnnie, very few no ethanol sources here in MI.  Can't really justify riding 45min. one way to the nearest no ethanol dealer...
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Using high octane fuel? I hate to ask..
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2012, 11:22:40 AM »
So what is the deal with you guys in the other states? Don't you have anyone selling no ethanol blend? I have 2 in my city in WI. Like I mentioned above I paid $4.21 yesterday for it. I have been using it in my 750's since it became available a few years ago. Funny thing is I see a lot of cars at these stations all the time. They seem more busy than the others stations.
In California, the state legislature mandated all auto gas at the pump be ethanol blended.  The only place that non-ethanol fuel is available, is at airports (100LL, which will poison catalytic converters), or at lawn mower shops for $10-$15/gallon.

Gordon has it right in his above post.  A higher octane rating has to do with self ignition characteristics under temperature and pressure, and has nothing to do with energy content or power output.
Part of the misconception otherwise, has to do with observing high powered engines that require high octane to avoid detonation.  Ignorant individuals then expect high octane used in their own engines will take them a step closer to higher power.  They even imagine the engine runs better to support their misconceptions.  They never perform an objective test.  But, give plenty of testimonials to bolster their own feelings.  Oil company marketing reinforces the delusion for their own gain as it costs no more to make higher octane fuel, but they can charge more for it, as the customer "perceives" he is getting more due to higher numbers on the label.

FYI, diesel fuel actually has higher energy content per volume.  It also detonates at far lower temperatures, which is why such engines have direct cylinder injection of the fuel at the time of ignition.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.