Author Topic: Testing cylinder head off bike  (Read 1725 times)

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Offline Tim.

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Testing cylinder head off bike
« on: July 04, 2006, 08:17:40 AM »
So, I picked up a couple sets of cylinders/pistons and a cylinder head from a guy who races 550's this weekend.  I have an oil burning problem - smoke billowing out the back end after a rebuild 2000 miles and one year ago.

I plan on doing a leakdown test, but in the meantime (need to buy a tester) I was wondering what tests/checks I can perform on the new cylinder head I picked up before going through the work of mounting it on the bike.  Anything in particular I should look for?  I also don't have a valve press, so removing the valves is at the moment impossible.  Need to find an inexpensive tool to do this if anyone can point to anything.

So far the problem appears to be in the head, but of course I can't be 100% certain (hence the two additiional sets of jugs).
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Offline crazypj

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 09:31:18 AM »
You can get a valve spring compressor here for $24.00, they are around $35.00 mosy other places
http://www.mikesxs.com/mikesxs-tools.php?category_id=7.1
Scroll down a bit until you get to it.
Check valve seal with some DW40 sprayed down port. Check cam bearings and oil passageways
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 09:39:55 AM »
Cheapo valve spring compressor:
I already had a big C-clamp so maybe an actual valvespring tool would be cheaper than getting one, but a big C-clamp can be pretty useful around the shop for other things.
I bought a black iron pipe fitting, I think it is a 1/2" NPT coupler - both ends female threads, about 2 inches long. I hacksawed a big ass slot in one end. I tape it to the dead side of the C-clamp and put the live end on the valve face. The fitting goes on the spring retaining washer, compress it a bit with the clamp and you pick out (or put in) the retainer thingies out through the big ass slot.
As far as checking a head...
Check the cam bearing surfaces, once they are worn out, the head is worn out. There might be a way to resurrect one but I think another good head would be cheaper.
Check the threads on all the rocker cover bolt holes. These tend to get stripped easily; stripped ones can be repaired but I've found a lot of bad helicoils... you can use thinserts on most of the holes which is about 1000% better than using helicoils. If you have a pulled out helicoil hole you can repair it with a timesert or keensert but some holes are too close to another feature for that to be possible.
Check for warp with a quality straight edge or on a surface table. A piece of thick plate glass makes a fairly cheap surface table; not as accurate as a real ROA granite slab but OK for our needs. If it's warped you will need to have it machined flat at the least, if you have a good flat one it's a better choice.
Remove the valves and springs, mark the valves to go back in the same holes. Just drilling 8 holes in a bit of 2X4 and labelling them is a good system.
The insides of the valve guides should look smooth and bright. The valve stems should be tight enough that the valve drops gently in when the stem is coated with oil, not just falls in with a clank. You obviously do this with stem seals removed. Replace the stem seals with new ones if the guides are OK. If you need new guides, it is a machine shop job unless you have the press and tools to do it.
If the guides are OK then check the actual face sealing. I use a bit of fine valve grinding compound and give the valve a few light turns, then clean the face and seat and look at the polish pattern on both. If it's a nice circle about a mm wide on both face and seat, you are fine and shouldn't do any major refinishing, just a bit more polishing with fine compound. Burned channels or a wear circle that isn't an even thickness indicates more work is needed. Burned valves should be replaced, the stellite surface is very thin and reground valves may not last long (opinions vary). The seats can be refinished but only do so if they really need it, replacing the seats varies from impossible to very expensive and every time you refinish them the working surface goes further into the head affecting compression and valvetrain geometry.
Measure the valve spring free lengths and replace if they are close to the service limit. Unless you need them, don't use heavy duty springs - they cause much faster cam and lifter wear. The stock cam does not require special springs.
Porting is an art as much as a science. Matching the port openings to the holes on the carb spacers and to the header inner diameter is a good idea. Removing obvious casting flaws like odd lumps in the surface won't hurt. Reshaping the things should be left to experts IMO. Smoothing out the rough casting surface is apparently not a good idea.

Offline Big Jay

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 01:12:28 PM »
First thing to do is find a cylinder head shop that has a Serdi machine. They are fitted with a vacuum tester. It will pull vacuum at each port and tell you if the valves are sealed. Good thing to know before you start tearing it down.

Just call them up and ask them if they can vacuum test a head.

Jay

Offline adams77

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 06:05:37 AM »
If you want an old school leak test on a cylinder head, here goes.


Clean and dry the head completely (especially the combustion chamber )

Secure it upside down on a bench

Fill the combustion chamber with gasoline, I usually fill it just below the rim and measure the distance between the surface of the head and the meniscus.

Come back in a few hours and measure again (time will vary because higher temperatures will evaporate gas quickly).  Then carefully remove the gasoline (here is the tricky part)...get a flashlight and look into the intake and exhaust ports for any gas that has seeped into them.  If no gas is found then you could assume the head has sealed properly.

dave75

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 09:20:49 AM »
I learned a variation of the old school method.  Turn it over and fill the cumbustion area with gas as before.  Instead of leaving it for a while..... take a compressed air nozzle on the intake and exhaust side of the head and blow compressed air around the valve.  If it leaks you'll see it bubble right away.

Dave

Offline Big Jay

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2006, 03:10:28 PM »
Keep in mind that none of these medhods will tell you if the head is in good shape. It will only tell you if it is leaking past the seat when it is not running, but sitting on your bench.

You can have worn out valve guides, and a valve face radiused from the seat pounding it and can still seal if the valve finds the seat.

All thease test will twell you is if you have a bent valve or a badly damaged seat.

Jay

Offline malcolmgb

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2006, 03:36:51 PM »
If you want an old school leak test on a cylinder head, here goes.


Clean and dry the head completely (especially the combustion chamber )

Secure it upside down on a bench

Fill the combustion chamber with gasoline, I usually fill it just below the rim and measure the distance between the surface of the head and the meniscus.

Come back in a few hours and measure again (time will vary because higher temperatures will evaporate gas quickly).  Then carefully remove the gasoline (here is the tricky part)...get a flashlight and look into the intake and exhaust ports for any gas that has seeped into them.  If no gas is found then you could assume the head has sealed properly.

I was always told to use Paraffin (Kerosene) not Petrol (Gasoline) as Petrol evaporates quicker than Paraffin, leave overnight and if the ports were clean and dry before test a damp stain should be seen if leaking, because again the Paraffin will not evaporate quickly.
Malcolm

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Offline MRieck

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 06:40:10 PM »
I have to say.....BigJay was speaking from a modern perspective.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline adams77

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Re: Testing cylinder head off bike
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 07:02:52 PM »
Keep in mind that none of these medhods will tell you if the head is in good shape. It will only tell you if it is leaking past the seat when it is not running, but sitting on your bench.

I think he knows by now that a leakdown is the best but he was asking for the bench top method.