Topic: Project Cheap Thrills (the Bar Hopper Chopper)

[dusterdude]

The lower mount for fatbobs is welded to the front downtubes on the frame

[MJL]

Last weekend I went to Toledo and picked up a couple parts bikes. One is a '73, complete except for the seat. It's even got HM34s on it, but they are rusted beyond repair.   Maybe I can use the tank on this build, if I can clean it and de-rust it.I'm going to use the rear fender and grab bar on my good '73.




Here is the other, a '77. This one, unlike the '73, has a motor that turns over. There were parts missing, but I mostly bought it for the motor and carbs.




While taking apart the '73, I found a bunch of wires in the headlight bucket had been spliced. At least the PO used shrink wrap.




Why were wires spliced? I wondered too until I took the handlebars off.




When I took the lid of the electrical box out of the vinegar, it was clean for a day. Then I had this. I took it to work and ran it through the media blaster. It's a softer media than sand, since we clean molds we can't embed sand in them. I don't know exactly what it is.




I'm going to tear the two bikes down to frames, then check out the rear wheels for rustiness and drive rubbers.
So, round top carbs or keyhole carbs?
I've got three front calipers that are all frozen, and I have manual hydraulic pumps (porta-power) at work I can pressurize them with if I can connect the two.
My master cylinders are stuck.
Surely I' need longer throttle cables.
I'm bidding on an ebay HD tank. If I don't win, I'll try to use the tank from the '73.
I did get my title, it says '76 Honda 75.  I'll have to do some paperwork on the vin though.

[MJL]

I worked on my oil tank yesterday.  I know some said to just buy a new one, but I wanted to try to save some cash so I decided to fix the old one. First I cut out the rusted battery box portion, and wire wheeled the rust off the whole thing. Here's the inside. (upside down)




Next we measured and cut a piece to fit the hole.  In my case it measured 5.75x9.




Neither of us has a press brake, so we had to improvise.




The problem with this method is it doesn't make a sharp crease, so you have to do a bit of extra work. No, that is not an invisible mallet.




Next I dry fitted it and used the flap wheel to get a nice fit.




Welding complete. It was a pain to do with such thin metal. What I did was to weld about a half inch at a time, let it cool enough to stop glowing, (Or for the auto helmet to lighten) do another half inch, etc. My friend used another method, he set it on end and welded vertically. Vertical welding will keep the puddle from dropping out.  I welded the long bits, he did the little triangle panel and the chain notch.




Finally we dumped some water in to see if there were any leaks. It took some time to fix them and grind them back down. When I got home I baked it in the over for awhile to get rid of any moisture inside and keep it from rusting.




No it's not perfect, but to save $100 or more for an hour's work is ok with me. Beside, the patched in panel is hidden under the seat and by the fender. You won't get a good look at it.

[MJL]

Forks are apart now. there are spacers on top that are 4-1/16 long. The tubes themselves are 26.5 long. So these are about 4.25 longer than stock? I'm going to order new ones as I don't think these are usable.




Other than this, I'll be trying to clean and free up the three master cylinders and calipers that I have.


Todays shopping list is denatured alcohol, scotchbrite pads, grease fittings for the calipers, and flaxseed oil. (seasoning cast iron pans)

[Stev-o]

I seem to remember a forum member that had some long tubes for sale, it may have been Tews?
Or Forking by Frank for new ones. 

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=109301.0

[MJL]

Yes these are Franks forks. I spent some time with some steel wool and found the chrome worn off where the seal rides, and very slight pitting. Thanks for the link, but now I am a bit confused. K0/K1 tubes are different from later years? Is this the only time there was a change? My title says it's a '76.


Presently I have 3 MCs soaking in denatured alcohol, and one caliper with the piston pushed out with the grease gun method.

[754]

 Did I not pm you about a set of long forks with lowers, that were very cheap ?
 You got mail...

[MJL]

I got it. Pm returned.   How difficult is it to shorten a tube? Just cut and thread?

[754]

 Not too bad if you have a machinist that is reasonable, or just slide em up the trees..

[MJL]

I called Franks and ordered forks. They should ship out in a day or two.

I've got 3 calipers soaking in denatured alcohol, but the piston part that sticks out and is pushed by the lever is rusted/corroded, and I don't think the alcohol will affect that. I don't know if vinegar will do anything either.

I've been taking apart a junk motor just for a mockup motor. when I pulled the head off, I found how bad it was locked up.




There are piles of mud in the cylinders.



Notice the head gaskets aren't exactly round. I wonder what happened there?

I was hoping to find some good parts in the motor, but obviously even if this was an 836 the block is junk. the inside, once I got the case split, turned out to not be rusty at all like I thought it would be. Water had poured out of the breather on the back of the motor when I strapped it to my hand cart. I did find a broken rocker when I took the rocker cover off,.

I'll be heading to the car wash with the cases tomorrow so I can wash out the grease, and press the pistons out of the bores.

[Stev-o]

I haven't seen one that bad in a long time. Was it stored outside with the plugs out?

[754]

 My bike looks like that on the outside..

[MJL]

Plugs in, carbs off. Crank was about 90* from TDC, so I know at least two cylinders had closed valves. I don't know why all 4 cylinders were in such bad shape.'ll be taking the block to a friend's house to press the pistons out.

How hard is it to knock the liners out?

[754]

Once pistons are out, warm them to 375f, should push out by hand..

[MJL]

I took the block to a friend's house and pressed out the pistons. I know that wasn't needed, but I thought maybe I could use the rods as levers on a future project. three of four came out relatively easy, but the fourth took enough pressure that it pushed in the top of the piston a bit.  I did take the liners out, the oven trick worked like a charm.  Now the only steel in my dummy motor is the screws and bolts holding it together. I could have dropped a few more ounces by removing the head studs I didn't use. I'm not going to take it apart for that now.

I haven't heard back from Franks yet about my forks, so I've turned my attention to the wheels.

Here's the rear wheel that came off the chopper. I think it's a HD rim, maybe not, but everything about it is different from the stock rim. Doesn't look too bad on this side. It does look like it has been painted silver.


Other side, not so good. I think the spokes may be stainless though, so that's a point in favor of using this rim.


One of the two stock rims I have. the other is still on the other parts bike which I haven't disassembled yet. I don't believe it's in any better condition than these.

It too has rust on it, and the spokes are rusted.




Note the inner spoke heads on the non-stock rim don't sit flush with the hub.


My front wheel is an aluminum wheel from a GL1000, left over from a dual disk swap on my stocker 750.

[MJL]

For tires I'd like to run Dunlop K70 for the vintage look, but the rear comes in an 18 inch flavor. How would one go about measuring for new spokes?

In the interest of keeping it cheap, I'll probably throw on some D404s and keep the 16 inch rear.

[toytuff]

Subscribed.

From Ft. Wayne myself.

tt

[MJL]

I spent time working on the master cylinders. I have three of them and they are all stuck. I've soaked them in alcohol for several days now, and while I can stick a rod in the outlet and move the plunger that way, the pistons are still stuck. Through judicious hammer use, I managed to get one apart. Another has the piston pushed all the way in, with the snap ring stuck. the last has the snap ring out, but the piston is stuck halfway down. I'll be taking parts to wok tomorrow to clean in the parts washer.

I have two banks of carbs, courtesy of the two parts bikes. One is a set of keyhole carbs, the other are round tops. Both are stuck. The keyhole carbs are the ones I have off the bike, I haven't gotten around to taking the other parts bike apart yet.

They don't look bad on the outside, but that's not where the gas is. I took several pictures so I can be sure to get it back together correctly.


I wanted to separate the carbs, so I took the bracket off the back, and then took the screws off the front. Unfortunately I think the carbs are "permanently" attached to this bracket.  Ok, maybe not permanently, but in a way so they aren't made to be separated.


The view with the cover off. Once I got the slides loose, (I use wd-40 as a solvent/lubricant/rinse) I started taking the slides out.


I don't know why that spring is in there, but with a curved pick I was able to unhook it from the upper pin, then from the bottom. It went into a plastic bag.  Next came the Jesus clips (as in "Jesus, where did it go?") I used my pick and a fingernail, making sure the clip went flying down into the slide where I could find it. Now all that's left before you take the link out is to remove the screw that attaches the arm to the shaft. Do that, slide the link off, and the slide comes out easily. I never touched the sync screws.


Once done I turned it upside down and forgot to take pictures. The bowls came off and went into bags. The floats and everything inside the bowls were coated in sticky varnish. I used more wd-40 to free the floats, then pushed out the pivot pins with my pick. a couple of them I had to slide back and forth, cleaning each side with the wd-40 before they'd come out. I also removed the main jets. (?) The idle air screws I left alone.

 Now I have a rack of stripped carbs and 5 bags of carb parts. Each carb got it's own bag, the tops and mounting screws went into the fifth bag. I don't think it'll hurt to mix those up.


Still no call from Forking by Frank.

[MJL]

Subscribed.

From Ft. Wayne myself.

tt

Is this yours? I saw it at Quaker "Steak bike night last summer.

[toytuff]

From.

Left in 82/83 I believe. Not mine.

tt

[Retro Rocket]

Subscribed.

From Ft. Wayne myself.

tt

Is this yours? I saw it at Quaker "Steak bike night last summer.

Look at the chain on that thing....

[Scotty J]

In contrast to all the full restos and cafes, this is getting pretty interesting.  Subscribed.

[MJL]

Carbs are clean.  I don't know if I mentioned it, but the slides were stuck and the bowls covered with sludge.  I took them to work and soaked the bodies and bowls in the parts cleaner for 8 hours or so, but it didn't seem to make a difference. I then put them in a different parts cleaner with a water based solvent, and the gunk loosened up. When everything was as clean as I could get it by jabbing that big brush into tiny areas while being mindful of the overflow tube, I had an idea. Right there by the dunk tank is a blast cabinet.  ;DI said this earlier, it is some kind of softer plastic media instead of sand, but it worked like a charm. Everywhere except for that tiny spot by the bowl drain screw. I ended up with a pick to scrape as much out, then soaked and blasted again. The carb bodies themselves did not get blasted, too many small passages to risk a clog. By then I was no longer on company time, so I bagged it all up for the next day.
   Something in the aqueous cleaner caused the bodies to turn chalky, so after another dunk in the first tank and a good blow dry they were cleaned. I blow dried the rest of the parts and laid them all out, checking the tubes to be sure they were clear. Everything went together without a hitch, and the only part I lost is one of those little plastic spacer/washers that go between the slide link and the e-clip. I considered giving each slide a little spray of CLP, Kroil, or WD-40, but then thought it best to leave them dry for now at least.

One thing I found is that Citrol is an excellent cleaner for this stuff. If I had tried it first I could have saved some time. But, I must warn you, DO NOT use citrol as a lubricant. It'll work, but then it'll dry up and make everything stick together. Not that I did it with these carbs, but I've seen people do it with other things (bearings on shafts) and it's like using loc-tite.

In contrast to all the full restos and cafes, this is getting pretty interesting.  Subscribed.

Thanks. Not that I'm trying to make it interesting, it's that I constantly change my mind on what I want to do. I think it's turning into an exercise of using what I have on hand, aka being cheap. I will have a couple of big purchases later, all my electrics will be new. 

If this isn't interesting enough, I'm already thinking of my next project, a "Big Wheels" sized 750 powered trike. As close to this as I can. 

[iron_worker]

That trike is bad@ss! lol! 

IW

[MJL]

Previous owners, oh how we love them. Or loathe them, depending what dumb crap they did. Yesterday I didn't get a lot done. I wanted to de-spoke the rim and hub, and ended up taking it to the local bike shop to have the tire removed. That set me back about $23 and revealed more rust inside the rim, and duct tape instead of a rubber rim strip.

 I did separate the hub from the hoop at a cost of one Craftsman wrench, size 15/64. It was best to hit each nipple head with a bit of penetrating oil and use either an actual spoke wrench (I couldn't find mine) or a crescent wrench to break it free before using the little wrench. I'm still positive the spokes are stainless, I cleaned them with a wire wheel and while they aren't polished shiny they are still silver and not pitted. The nipples are not however, and I don't know if I can buy just the nipples.  The hoop I hit with a wire cup on an angle grinder. I cleaned up decently, but I'll have to do something to keep it from rusting. I'm kinda sketchy about painting them, so I'll head over to a local custom bike shop (https://www.facebook.com/oneoffcustomdesigns) to see about powder coat. I have no problem doing that to the rear, but with a shiny aluminum front hoop I don't really want to pc that one.
I'll be picking up a pedestal grinder with a wire wheel on it to get down in the depressed part of the rim.

My forks arrived as well, I went down to the basement to assemble my forks and realized that I didn't have new seals to put in them. So I got on the horn and called the bike shop to order a pair of seals and a spoke wrench.

I brought my frame down into my basement, moved a light over to where I am working, and was offered a trade. My flatscreen tv for a hot rodded Ruger 10-22. Decisions, decisions...


BTW, I believe the mockup motor I have is an F2 motor. Had I known that, I wouldn't have emptied out that case. I've read that bottom end will hold 100 hp, and it would be cool to do burnouts at will. :evil laugh: Probably whatever motor I run will have the F2 cam and a 836 kit.