Topic: Mods vs Rockers..... Stockers vs Modders

[nerfherder81]

My first rant........
This goes on everwhere and forever....... Mods vs Rockers, Greasers vs Preps, Coke vs Pepsi
Stockers vs Modders.
This even happend when I was working on classic cars. Don't get me wrong I love a clean well put together vehicle, HOWEVER I also like to mod things beyond stock. And I'm sure there are others like me.

People please try to avoid replying to a post that is clearly from the opposite camp unless you have something positive to add.

For example... Pod Air filters vs Stock air box, we are all adults that can read and can make there own decisions. We don't need reminded a thusand time that some of you don't like pods. Thanks


P.S. FYI I kept my stock air box, if I decided that pods are not working I'll go back.

[Duanob]

"People please try to avoid replying to a post that is clearly from the opposite camp unless you have something positive to add."


LOL Silly boy!

[Duke McDukiedook]

Dogs vs. cats!
Oil vs. water!
Vinegar vs. wine!
When will they ever learn to make love, not war!

[kghost]

It's not that people don't like pods.

It's that people install them for aesthetic reasons with little or no knowledge.

When the bike doesn't run they jump on here and scream for help.

My favourite is: "I've put pods on.....do I need to rejet?"

My thought is....if you don't know the answer to that question...maybe you shouldn't do that.

[nerfherder81]

Touche good sir.  I was just working with a guy who share's the shop with me say he was going with K&N pods because "they don't require jetting". My thought was um if they don't require jetting how do they make more power???

[scottly]

It's not Mods vs rockers, it's Stock-boxers vs the Pod People. This has been an on-going argument since I joined the forums. It sometimes takes humorous turns when "experts" try to validate their arguments why pods can never work by trying to relate laminar flow theory (that they don't really understand) to the problems encountered. The best example I recall was a fellow whose real problem was due to a broken-off spark plug wire. "Get rid of the pods. It will never run with them." That was the general type of the advice that guy got. He didn't have the stock setup, so he wasn't able to make sure the bike ran properly with it before running pods. A lot of times, running issues are carburetor related, and would show up even with a stock air-box. Pods will exacerbate lean issues.
I see that you've raised the question of the carbs drooping on another thread. Yes, this is a concern, as unsupported carbs are prone to vacuum leaks at the boots; do not try to tune around leaks, or you will be chasing your tail. 

[seanbarney41]

P.S. FYI I kept my stock air box, if I decided that pods are not working I'll go back.

thing is...many here have already tried pods, and know more about bikes than you or me, so when they tell you they don't work, it's not just because they don't like your style. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Touche good sir.  I was just working with a guy who share's the shop with me say he was going with K&N pods because "they don't require jetting". My thought was um if they don't require jetting how do they make more power???

Your workmate is a boob if he really thinks that you would not have to rejet a Honda SOHC bike after he put pods on them.

Like Kghost said most people don't understand the applications for running pods optimally- RACE APPLICATIONS where you are running WOT ALL THE TIME.
Nubes slap podz on without rejetting for "the look" and wonder why their bike runs like crap in normal street situations. Even when you optimise the jetting and needle positions flat spots will be remain in certain throttle positions and RPMs no matter what you try to do.
 

[Duanob]

"Stock-boxers vs the Pod People"

That would make an awesome movie title!

[scrapvalue]

Been running pods for 5 years on my 74 CB750 . Bike starts instantly, idles fine, carries itself wonderfully at low rpm's and will wind out to the moon,(has electronic ignition), with ZERO flat spots.

I live in N. Michigan, spend 3 months of the winter in south Florida and just got home from spending 4 weeks in the N. Carolina mountains.  The bike runs great in all 3 places without touching the carbs.

Yes, I did have  to re-jet it and yes it was a little frustrating at times. It was well worth the effort.

Just because you can't figure something out, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Don't want to get into a pissing match, just wanted to share my results.

P.S. I didn't take the stock air box off, it was missing.

[nerfherder81]

"Stock-boxers vs the Pod People"

That would make an awesome movie title!

LOL!! Nice one. I'll start writing a screen play for it. J/K

[flybox1]

ONE OF MY FAVORITE POSTS EVER!!!!

I know I'll catch some (deserved) flack for this one, but here goes!

Cafe

As in:  I just picked up an old, neglected sohc4 for a steal, and I think I'm gonna "cafe" it.

Definition:  I'm very susceptible to popular trends and I don't have the time/money/patience to do a proper rebuild, so I'm gonna throw on a solo seat, some clubmans, and I'm gonna junk that ugly air box and put on some cheap pods because that air box is a pain in the ass when I have to keep pulling the carbs to figure out why my bike isn't running well instead of just doing a thorough clean and rebuild of them the first time, and then I'll get pissed at it because it runs even worse and I can never get those stupid carbs tuned right, and then I'll bolt on a ratty old 4-1 exhaust and ditch that useless, heavy center stand, and then I'll half-ass an attempt at converting to dual front discs but end up with two discs and only one working caliper instead, and then I'm gonna get rid of those ugly clocks because the needles just bounce around uselessy and put on a digital bicycle speedometer, and I'm gonna put on a super bright headlight and a Dyna-S because fukin' points are crappy, old technology and I don't want to learn how to adjust and set points anyway, and then I'm gonna curse this bike's old, anemic charging system because it can't keep the tiny battery I've installed in the seat hump charged, so then I'll change all the other bulbs to LED, and then I'll put on the fattest, cheapest tires I can find 'cuz I can't stand the look of those stock pizza-cutters and then #$%* about my bike not handling well but I don't care because it looks tits, and then I'll try to fix that with some cartridge emulators I heard about that will make your bike handle like a modern crotch rocket and put on these cheap, Chinese piggyback shocks I found on ebay because they make the bike look mean and fast but they're too long so I'll put on these lowering blocks while I'm at it but the shocks hit the chain guard making it rub the chain so I'll throw away that useless thing, and hey how do I hang this exhaust,  I guess I'll just use some of this pipe strap, and how much exhaust wrap do I need, and I think the engine is overheating so I'll put on this oil cooler, and the valve cover keeps leaking so I'll just use this gasket sealer instead of shelling out for new gaskets, and why did my engine make a loud screeching sound followed by a louder PING and then die? 

SCREW IT!  I'm sick of trying to get this POS running well!  I'll call it a cafe and try to sell it on ebay for $5,000 because I see that guy Carpy selling them for that much all the time, and hey, these things are rare, sought-after, vintage bikes, right?


 

[nerfherder81]

Your workmate is a boob if he really thinks that you would not have to rejet a Honda SOHC bike after he put pods on them.

Well to be exact he's working on a DOHC 750 Zuk, but i'm pretty sure the rules still apply. Maybe even more so.

[kajtek]

Ahh i rarely post but yeah, ive been to the ace cafe lots if times, n have annoying people come up to me and tell me i spoiled my bike, i shouldnt have done this or that etc. god forbid you should see a *cringe* 'cafe' style bike at the ace. Most of the time i ask them what they ride 'oh i dont ride anymore'. Ah ok, do one.

As for pods, whatever. If u have the skills to make it work, good stuff. Main reason i havent bothered as i ride in all weather.

so in short, i dont care if u had the same bike as me in 78 and how im wrong to change the seat n put a digi dash on it, and clip ons. My bike. Not yours.

And another thing, when people whine that someones chopping a good condition bike, feel free to buy all the good stockers in the world and put them in ur shed so no one can spoil them. Until then stop whining. These bikes arent vincents or broughs, get over it.

[curemode2002]

+1 kajtek

And there were even modders who took it too the Vicents and Brough Superiors namely the factory guys who went after all the speed records or raced them. I mean for heck sake Soichiro Honda was a prime example of both the Modder and the Stocker he built exquisit race and production bikes.

My bike is mostly stock due to finance and tool shortage. But if it belongs to you it is yours to do with what you want. And I am a strong believer in Make It Yours. If you love stock go stock, if you love cafe go cafe, if you hate both go chopper?! But whatever you do have fun.

[kghost]

Just because you can't figure something out, doesn't mean it can't be done.

NO. That's exactly what it means.

Least not by you.

I don't care what someone does to their bike. Mod vs stock, cafe vs bobber, build and ride what you like.

I just don't think you should £uck around if you don't know what your doing and it's beyond your skill and knowledge base.

Like someone else pointed out.....get it running perfect the way it was intended. Then you have a base line when you start changing things.

[Bluegreen]

Just because you can't figure something out, doesn't mean it can't be done.

NO. That's exactly what it means.

Least not by you.

I don't care what someone does to their bike. Mod vs stock, cafe vs bobber, build and ride what you like.

I just don't think you should £uck around if you don't know what your doing and it's beyond your skill and knowledge base.

Like someone else pointed out.....get it running perfect the way it was intended. Then you have a base line when you start changing things.

Perfect advice if you don't ever want to learn anything.

These are old Hondas, not space shuttles. It's not the worlds hardest thing to tune carbs. Just takes time.

Although I do agree with you on the base line thing if you are new to the model. Best to know how it works/feels before you mod anything.

[754]

To be honest, I bought the first version of K+N with rubber ends.. Have not seen them for decades.
 First thing I heard of people having problems with them, is when I came on here..25+ year later..

[Stev-o]

Boxers vs briefs


PS. I too had a K6 with pods, bought it as a project that way. Found a coil wire issue and bike ran great after I repaired that.  I am a believer that it can be done.

[Retro Rocket]

And another thing, when people whine that someones chopping a good condition bike, feel free to buy all the good stockers in the world and put them in ur shed so no one can spoil them. Until then stop whining. These bikes arent vincents or broughs, get over it.

Thats a sh1t attitude but it does help us guys that are REALLY into these old bikes, you are just making the good ones more valuable. I bet you are a young guy that will move on shortly once over your old Honda...? {something else will be cool soon}  You need to remember, some of us aren't just posers, we are true enthusiasts and have had these bikes for 30+ years, we'll still be here long after you are gone..  These {750's} may not be Vincents but they hold an equally important place in motorcycle history, they are ground breaking and iconic.  The sandcasts are already demanding Vincent money in some parts of the world, so there wasn't much relevant in your ramblings at all... On a side note, most originals i see are in pretty good shape when finished , most cafe's i see are piles of sh1t, built with little knowledge or understanding of how a motorcycle is supposed to work, with a sprinkling of good ones thrown in for good measure ...    Flame away...   Thats what these threads are for , isn't it...

[kghost]

Just because you can't figure something out, doesn't mean it can't be done.

NO. That's exactly what it means.

Least not by you.

I don't care what someone does to their bike. Mod vs stock, cafe vs bobber, build and ride what you like.

I just don't think you should £uck around if you don't know what your doing and it's beyond your skill and knowledge base.

Like someone else pointed out.....get it running perfect the way it was intended. Then you have a base line when you start changing things.

Perfect advice if you don't ever want to learn anything.

These are old Hondas, not space shuttles. It's not the worlds hardest thing to tune carbs. Just takes time.

Although I do agree with you on the base line thing if you are new to the model. Best to know how it works/feels before you mod anything.

I'd disagree with the statement "perfect advise if you don't want to learn anything".

My point was:

1. Most people who slap on the pods.....aren't trying to learn. They are trying to look kool. They slap them on then wonder why they can't get the bike to run. Then they scream for help. Hmmmm. Maybe learn a wee (just a modicum, a tad, even just a hint) bit how carbs work before you bolt them on. Seriously. All the info is there. As you suggested....it's not the space shuttle.

2.  If you don't at least try and learn something before you start.....you are not a mechanic. You're a parts swapper. Bolting $4it on your bike does not make you cool. Craftsmanship makes you cool

NEVER do work you're ashamed of.

[kajtek]

And another thing, when people whine that someones chopping a good condition bike, feel free to buy all the good stockers in the world and put them in ur shed so no one can spoil them. Until then stop whining. These bikes arent vincents or broughs, get over it.

Thats a sh1t attitude but it does help us guys that are REALLY into these old bikes, you are just making the good ones more valuable. I bet you are a young guy that will move on shortly once over your old Honda...? {something else will be cool soon}  You need to remember, some of us aren't just posers, we are true enthusiasts and have had these bikes for 30+ years, we'll still be here long after you are gone..  These {750's} may not be Vincents but they hold an equally important place in motorcycle history, they are ground breaking and iconic.  The sandcasts are already demanding Vincent money in some parts of the world, so there wasn't much relevant in your ramblings at all... On a side note, most originals i see are in pretty good shape when finished , most cafe's i see are piles of sh1t, built with little knowledge or understanding of how a motorcycle is supposed to work, with a sprinkling of good ones thrown in for good measure ...    Flame away...   Thats what these threads are for , isn't it...

Hi, haha yeah well im medium young (33) and ive had my 400 for about 3.5 years. And i havent gone crazy and cut all the frame tabs and shaved the triple and polished everything to make it look like a gaudy chopper, in many ways i treat it fairly rough, never cleaned, minimum 12k km per year, never serviced often enough. But i do love it! I rode 1500km in 2 days to a new job abroad so i wouldnt be without it for 2 months, i have lots of wonderful plans for it if i ever get the money, and i am proud that while everyone around me rides commuters im still living the dream on my noisy uncomfortable 'real' bike. I will admit its not the only bike for me, i also have a cg125 that i plan to make in to the ultimate city crossing bike, and i would really love a ducati monster, xt500 and a bsa b33. But sadly i dont have a garage yet.. So i guess i dont have the same slavish devotions to sohc4s that you guys do, to me a bike is a tool of freedom, and the minute we start to worry about them we place restrictions on our freedoms.

Another thing.. I am impressed by the devotion to restoration some of you guys will make, its just not for me though. I like old bikes that look old, without looking clapped out. Wd40 and wire wool finish i would call it i guess..

Seriously though, ive lost count of the times ive had anoraks (english term for an obsessive bore on a subject) fussing over my bike, waiting for me to return to it and tell me their very special opinion on my bike. Which normally involves having a go at me. I prefer positivity and communion through the love of all things with two wheels not worrying about wether i have the original exhaust or not.

Anyway heres the only photo i could find on my phone of my bike (if it works)just for fun... Stock paint and side covers!

[Bluegreen]

Just because you can't figure something out, doesn't mean it can't be done.

NO. That's exactly what it means.

Least not by you.

I don't care what someone does to their bike. Mod vs stock, cafe vs bobber, build and ride what you like.

I just don't think you should £uck around if you don't know what your doing and it's beyond your skill and knowledge base.

Like someone else pointed out.....get it running perfect the way it was intended. Then you have a base line when you start changing things.

Perfect advice if you don't ever want to learn anything.

These are old Hondas, not space shuttles. It's not the worlds hardest thing to tune carbs. Just takes time.

Although I do agree with you on the base line thing if you are new to the model. Best to know how it works/feels before you mod anything.

I'd disagree with the statement "perfect advise if you don't want to learn anything".

My point was:

1. Most people who slap on the pods.....aren't trying to learn. They are trying to look kool. They slap them on then wonder why they can't get the bike to run. Then they scream for help. Hmmmm. Maybe learn a wee (just a modicum, a tad, even just a hint) bit how carbs work before you bolt them on. Seriously. All the info is there. As you suggested....it's not the space shuttle.

2.  If you don't at least try and learn something before you start.....you are not a mechanic. You're a parts swapper. Bolting $4it on your bike does not make you cool. Craftsmanship makes you cool

NEVER do work you're ashamed of.

I'd agree with this.

[nerfherder81]

Kajtek you sound like my brother from across the pond... :thumbs up:
Retro, I don't think kajtek is saying lets just destroy everything. You twos convo reminds me of the old days when I was in to classic cars. My first car was a '69 camaro and I drove it to high school as often as I could (you in between working on it) then we were out shopping for another. My dad and I were looking at a nice 68, I said it might be mine, and the guy just look at me with horror on his face.
To be honest I think there's a good enough mix, and enough of certain vehicles the we can get along.

[kghost]

Well there's always going to "North Korean" members..........

WE BOMB YOU NOW! is the response when you say something that lights their fuse lol