Author Topic: RS34 Tuning and General Information  (Read 15120 times)

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Offline sethdhawkins

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RS34 Tuning and General Information
« on: June 02, 2013, 12:47:55 PM »
I figured there were enough of us using the Mikuni RS34's on our 750's now, that we should compile some tuning and general information. I, for one, had a difficult time finding info on these carbs. Through some help from DoctorD and MRieck, I gleaned some info., but also sniffed a little out on my own. I am, by no means, an expert on these carbs. I just wanted to share what I have learned and how I learned it.

Here we go:

For basic tuning of the carbs, this is what you want to do. There really isn't a lot of info on these carbs. Searching for rs36's, 38's, or hs40's will give you more info. You need NEW early style intake spigots. The carbs will be hard to put on. You can put them in the oven at 200 degrees for 15-20 mins, as well as remove some material from the lip of the spigot with a dremel. The accelerator pump adjustment is a PITA.  It's best done on a dyno (I used a Wideband O2 sensor), but the backyard way to set it is to have the plunger start moving just before 1/4 throttle and stop before 1/2-3/4 throttle. I like it earlier (like just off idle), but haven't figured out the later yet.  Bench synch those @&$%ers, or you'll have a hell of a time. Then, you absolutely must use a manometer to synch them while running. These carbs make a rattling noise at idle (some refer to them as rattle slides), but if out of synch, they're even louder.

Excerpt from one of the online forums referring to RS36's (I've edited some of this for RS34 content):
 "If your mixture screws are okay put them back in and tighten them just until they stop (carefully) and back them out 2-3 turns each. Then take your float bowl covers off and check that your floats are each at 17mm. The way I do it is to flip the carbs upside down and using a vernier gauge or thin ruler put it inside the float bowl area and measure from the uncapped float bowl edge to the highest point of the plastic float. For the jetting I usually like to leave my needle clips in the middle setting and start with the main jet and work from there. Another thing, this "hanging up" of the throttle you wrote about could be many things, vacuum leak, sticking throttle cable, or it could be the accelerator pump is spraying too much fuel when you whack the throttle. If you look between carb 2 and 3 you will see this skinny rod that gets pushed down by a white plastic piece when the throttle is opened. This rod actuates a piston which squirts fuel through a tiny brass pipe in the carb throats. There are small screws on the top white plastic piece that can be adjusted to control how much gas is squirted in and for how long. This is primarily for those times when you just whack it open, it is squirting fuel in to compensate for the sudden rush of air coming in. One last secret I'd like to share....I think this may help a lot of people who shy away from buying flatslides because of the "heavy throttle". On the Mikuni RS flatslides there are two heavy coil-wound springs that force the throttle shut. I unhooked one entirely and on the other one I unwound it a couple of times and reattached it. The throttle felt like a STOCK bike (This doesn't work, as there is no return spring tension whatsoever. Develop big wrists). You MUST be running a push/pull cable (This is very true. The RS carbs create too much vacuum for them to close all the way by just the return spring)."

Stock push/pull cables will work, but you need to solder new barrels on the carb side and trim them down some. It is a very tight fit and you need to pay very close attention to cable routing.

You can access the needle through through the top of the carbs, and the mains through the large hex head on the bottom of the float bowl. If you need to change pilots (you shouldn't have to), you'll have to pull the float bowls in their entirety.


HS40 Tuning Guide (Single carb application of the RS carbs, but the info is awesome. Disregard anything that starts with an H and ends in a Y).






RS Series Parts List and Throttle position to Jet relationships.






There's an installation manual that comes with the RS34's that, for the most part, is kinda worthless. It has info on accelerator pump adjustment and carb synch on the second to last page. I'll try and post it when I have it in my hands next.

For those of you with RS34's please post any relevant info you have including, but not limited to:

Engine Modifications
Jetting
Dyno Graphs
Accel Pump Settings
Comments
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 01:48:50 PM by sethdhawkins »
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Offline sethdhawkins

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 02:06:07 PM »
836cc Motor, JMR Ported Head, Webgrind Cam, Dyna 2K

Pilots 17.5
Needle 9DZHO3 (Clip is first down from the middle)
Main 122.5

Accelerator pump is set to come on just off idle and stops just after 3/4 throttle. I'm running a wideband and can see the bike lean out pretty hard if I "whack" the throttle open. If I bring up the power smoothly and in a linear fashion....hold on! Overall tune is on the rich side. I will post dynos when I get there.

Seth
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 04:27:08 PM by sethdhawkins »
All a man needs in this world is someone to love, if you can't give him that, give him hope, if you can't give him hope...just give him something to do!

1972-ish CB750K
1974 CB450
1974 CB360
1976 136' Ocean Going Tug

Offline madScientist

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2013, 03:40:53 PM »
This may be common knowledge or not but I'll add it anyway.

To adjust the slides, for syncing, you have to:
1) take the tops off the carbs
2) loosen the phillips screw
3) turn the nut...clockwise raises the slide, counter clockwise lowers it

Very small increments make big changes. Give the throttle a slight crack when after you adjust.

The #3 carb is hard set so you'll balance to that carb.

I'll post my config when I get them dialed in a little tighter.
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Offline brandEn

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2013, 05:28:52 PM »
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Offline madScientist

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 06:24:00 AM »
Here's some light bathroom reading.

Uploaded the manual that came with the carbs. It's pretty similar to the HS40 tuning guide Seth attached. There's some additional info worth checking out in there.
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline sethdhawkins

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2013, 09:11:23 AM »
Thank you, Chase!
All a man needs in this world is someone to love, if you can't give him that, give him hope, if you can't give him hope...just give him something to do!

1972-ish CB750K
1974 CB450
1974 CB360
1976 136' Ocean Going Tug

Online PeWe

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 03:17:34 AM »
This Mikuni tuning manual can be a help too
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 12:02:57 PM by PeWe »
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
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CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
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K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2023, 04:21:53 PM »
So I made the mistake or fiddling with the idle adjustment screw and now I'm not sure where it should be. The motor is a fresh rebuild and I'd rather not mess anything up by having it too high nor too low when I go to start the bike.

Any thoughts on how to go about setting it to about where it should be?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2023, 06:42:47 PM »
Was anyone else not able to receive the posted tuning guide?
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Offline denward17

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2023, 07:26:01 PM »
Was anyone else not able to receive the posted tuning guide?

I can't see anything.  Just thought it was me...

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2023, 08:00:50 PM »
There is a file linked below the mention of it and I just downloaded it to my phone and file is readable with images and all that...
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Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2023, 09:32:39 AM »
I've read them all and it doesn't mention what position the idle screw should be upon first start.
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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2023, 10:30:09 AM »
The needles have hopefully correct taper.

My TMR32 had wrong needle which was impossible to get right despite changing all other jets.
Always rich AND lean somewhere. 
I finally found correct needle and a seller that had in stock.
I found an Excel file where Mikuni needles can be compared with each other.
A computer needed with Excel.

Look up your needle and compare with other if needed.

I could verify my too rich needle with another recommended on a document at Webike. The taper curve matched what I had seen on dynos.
Good luck understanding it  8) ???

RS34 also using 9 family needles as TMR. 90mm something in lenght.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2023, 10:19:52 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline MRieck

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2023, 11:34:58 AM »
So I made the mistake or fiddling with the idle adjustment screw and now I'm not sure where it should be. The motor is a fresh rebuild and I'd rather not mess anything up by having it too high nor too low when I go to start the bike.

Any thoughts on how to go about setting it to about where it should be?
I'd start at 1 turn out. Effective range is up to 4 turns out but if need need lots of turns out replace the pilot jet with a larger one. You really want to get to a maximum of 1.5 turns out.
 Once it holds idle synch the carbs too.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2023, 04:39:14 PM »
So I made the mistake or fiddling with the idle adjustment screw and now I'm not sure where it should be. The motor is a fresh rebuild and I'd rather not mess anything up by having it too high nor too low when I go to start the bike.

Any thoughts on how to go about setting it to about where it should be?
I'd start at 1 turn out. Effective range is up to 4 turns out but if need need lots of turns out replace the pilot jet with a larger one. You really want to get to a maximum of 1.5 turns out.
 Once it holds idle synch the carbs too.

So turn it all the way clockwise til it won't turn anymore and then back it out 1 full turn and start there?

I did bench sync the carbs - that should be enough to get it running. Then I'll snyc them while running to dial it in.
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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2023, 10:45:48 PM »
The screws have o-rings with tiny washers under?
Good idea to tighten them very light (before open), until it stop. Easier to get all equal.

I have found this about air/fuel screws:
Mikuni VM29 air screws  1/2 turn out.

Mikuni TMR32 fuel screws 3/4 turn out from lightly tightened. +/- 1/8 will cause too rich or lean in low speeds/take offs.

Larger/smaller pilot jets do not change this, only make it too rich/lean...

I have also notified that needle affect from the very beginning, from idle and up if wrong in combination with pilot, needle jet.

RS34 might work similar?
It would be fine with a jetting chart with all jets.

I finally found a chart for different sized TMR's at Webike where the pilot, PAJ, needle model, needle jet and main jet was almost spot on for my bike.
Only main jet that needed 1 size bigger.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline MRieck

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2023, 04:19:50 PM »
So I made the mistake or fiddling with the idle adjustment screw and now I'm not sure where it should be. The motor is a fresh rebuild and I'd rather not mess anything up by having it too high nor too low when I go to start the bike.

Any thoughts on how to go about setting it to about where it should be?
I'd start at 1 turn out. Effective range is up to 4 turns out but if need need lots of turns out replace the pilot jet with a larger one. You really want to get to a maximum of 1.5 turns out.
 Once it holds idle synch the carbs too.
Correct....all the way in and turn out. As Per said.....seat lightly! The screws are very accessible....I put a small dot of paint on the side of the screw so you can easily monitor position when turning out.

So turn it all the way clockwise til it won't turn anymore and then back it out 1 full turn and start there?

I did bench sync the carbs - that should be enough to get it running. Then I'll snyc them while running to dial it in.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2023, 01:20:49 PM »
Just to make sure we're all talking about the same thing, this is the idle screw I'm speaking of.
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Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2023, 07:58:21 PM »
Just to make sure we're all talking about the same thing, this is the idle screw I'm speaking of.

That’s  the engine idle screw or Rack idle screw.
It has nothing to do with the carb idle mixture…

If you can’t find it in the owners manual, I’d set it just to where it keeps the slides from bottoming out on their own.
While the carbs are off, back the screw out until it doesn’t touch its stop (where the screw pushes against ). Screw it back in until you see the slides move a tiny bit or feel the same. You should see the same tiny sliver of light under each one if your bench sync is close. Then when you start it you’ll have to set the idle rpm so it runs without holding the throttle or slow it down if it won’t idle down..Then when you adjust the idle jet mixture screws you can idle it back down. When you vacuum sync the carbs, then you can idle It down some more and then readjust your idle screw mixtures again and lower or raise the rack idle, then recheck your sync, recheck idle mixture screws, Repeat, repeat, and repeat. You know one affects the other until you got it…dive in, compartmentalize, get it to run first, then get it to idle decent, then sync and adjust till you’re satisfied. A wide band O2 sensor can help as well as complicate it, if it’s your first rodeo..

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2023, 10:10:04 PM »
Horrible placement for idle screw.
The setting for it is a good idle. 1200rpm when fully warmed up work fine with stock cam as well as a hotter one. My 125-75 like it too.
You might reach it with a screwdriver with filters on.
My TMR idle screw sit in same bad position, but possible to adjust with K&N pods on.

Setting in turns for that screw is like looking in a cars users manual how much to turn the steering wheel when driving.

I look forward to a complete jetting with correct needle profile with height plus the other jets verified on Dyno by throttling very slow as well as WOT from low to 9000rpm for correct AFR.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 10:14:57 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2023, 10:48:20 AM »
Just to make sure we're all talking about the same thing, this is the idle screw I'm speaking of.

That’s  the engine idle screw or Rack idle screw.
It has nothing to do with the carb idle mixture…

If you can’t find it in the owners manual, I’d set it just to where it keeps the slides from bottoming out on their own.
While the carbs are off, back the screw out until it doesn’t touch its stop (where the screw pushes against ). Screw it back in until you see the slides move a tiny bit or feel the same. You should see the same tiny sliver of light under each one if your bench sync is close. Then when you start it you’ll have to set the idle rpm so it runs without holding the throttle or slow it down if it won’t idle down..Then when you adjust the idle jet mixture screws you can idle it back down. When you vacuum sync the carbs, then you can idle It down some more and then readjust your idle screw mixtures again and lower or raise the rack idle, then recheck your sync, recheck idle mixture screws, Repeat, repeat, and repeat. You know one affects the other until you got it…dive in, compartmentalize, get it to run first, then get it to idle decent, then sync and adjust till you’re satisfied. A wide band O2 sensor can help as well as complicate it, if it’s your first rodeo..

I'm more confused now than I was before, hah! Guess I'll have to dive in and try to find some videos on doing all this on an RS34. It's just so much info and I'm not sure what is what and all.
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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2023, 12:30:37 PM »
That's actually a good description of what to do. You are making this more difficult than necessary. I do the same when I'm dialing in a cam or my RS34's. When I'm done I realize how simple it COULD be. Read what he has written one step at a time and visualize with the carbs in hand. The part that has gotten me is setting the pump  ;) ::)

As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MRieck

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2023, 12:54:06 PM »
That's actually a good description of what to do. You are making this more difficult than necessary. I do the same when I'm dialing in a cam or my RS34's. When I'm done I realize how simple it COULD be. Read what he has written one step at a time and visualize with the carbs in hand. The part that has gotten me is setting the pump  ;) ::)
It is adjustable for when it starts and duration. To much accelerator pump throw a lot of fuel down the throat.....it doesn't need much duration.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Tracksnblades1

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2023, 04:16:04 PM »
That's actually a good description of what to do. You are making this more difficult than necessary. I do the same when I'm dialing in a cam or my RS34's. When I'm done I realize how simple it COULD be. Read what he has written one step at a time and visualize with the carbs in hand. The part that has gotten me is setting the pump  ;) ::)

Yes. And a good indication of a cruise A/F ratios greater than 12:1 is the need for an accelerator pump (enrichment) during a quick throttle increase especially under a load. 12:1 and lower A/F ratios sometimes won’t require a fuel enrichment (accelerator pump) to increase engine speed. Best full throttle rich torque can occur at 11.8:1 while best lean torque can occur around 13.5-13.8..

And as Mike indicated a small intake tract volume won’t need a very long duration enrichment  to richen a cruise ratio of 13.5 or higher (leaner) down to 12:1 so no hesitations or stumbles occur.

The CB doesn’t sport the intake tract volume like a BBC with a tunnel ram with  a twin dominator manifold on top requiring quad 50cc pumps and large squirters  to do the same.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 10:22:59 PM by Tracksnblades1 »
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Offline Ellz10

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Re: RS34 Tuning and General Information
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2023, 06:37:30 PM »
Where the heck is the air/fuel mixture screw on these RS34s?
Thankful for everyone on this forum. Grateful to continue to learn so much.



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