Topic: Do I need to tighten this? (front wheel)

[fendersrule]

[flybox1]

What exactly are you regretting to?

[fendersrule]

If my horrible skill in mechanical aptitude serves me correct, there should be a slight gap like that between the nut and the bearing spacer.

[Vinhead1957]

Space in the rear, tight in the front.  Space on one side is normal.

[bollingball]

I am not sure if he is talking about the axle holder.
Ken

[Dave Voss]

If you're referring to the axle nut, no it should be tight with no gap between it and the bearing spacer.  Remove the fork retainers and tighten that nut if it's loose, otherwise the front wheel can move side to side by the amount of the gap, which could be unsafe.

Also, the fork retainers are directional, be sure to install them correctly, tightening the forward nut first, then the rear where a gap will remain, which is normal.

[scottly]

Make sure the speedometer drive tangs are engaged in the drive-plate slots before you tighten the axle.

[fendersrule]

So it appears that the gap is on the wrong side then.

There shouldn't be a gap between the bearing retainer and that skinny nut...

Sounds like a quick fix. Loosen the retainers, tighten the nut against the bearing retainer (how tight?)?

I noticed that there was some lateral movement of the front wheel. Thought my mind was playing tricks on me....didn't feel right...sort if felt like a skid.

I know the retainer tightening procedure quite well.

[fendersrule]

Scotty, how do I make sure of the drive tangs?

[fendersrule]

So that nut was pretty loose.

Do I place one hand on the speedo drive to hold it in place as I tighten the axle nut?

I always thought that the speedo drive was suppose to move freely. I guess the speedo drive needs to not move?

How tight is tight?

[fendersrule]

Held the speedo gear and tightened the axle nut. It was off by about 10 revolutions. Got it tightened to the point where I couldn't hold the speedo gear anymore. It felt like 40 lbs; hard to say.

Tightened back the axle holders (gap in front, torqued rear first). Attached the speedo cable.

Speedo drive is now doesn't move (I placed it horizontal), which is the way it should be. The wheel will spend about 3/4 of a revolution freely, which tells me nothing is in a bind.

Should be ready to hit the road. Can't believe I took it on a 200 mile trip recently with a loose front axle.

[Dave Voss]

I'm glad to hear that you found the loose nut and tightened it up, the wheel bearings wouldn't have lasted very long if left that way.  For future reference, the opposite end of the front axle (beyond the speedometer drive assembly) has two wrench flats that can be used to prevent rotation while the axle nut is tightened, which can be easier than trying to hold the speedometer drive.  As cautioned above, it is important that the speedometer drive is engaged correctly such that the two tabs are aligned with the two slots before tightening the axle nut.

[fendersrule]

Hi Dave,

I looked at this, and it seemed that you had to remove all of the 8 nuts holding the plate. Those things are very tight, so I didn't mess with it.

I'll be taking my bike in to a hog shop for a general check up/tune up. The Mechanic said that he knows/loves the old Hondas. Probably a good idea to have it check up on stuff

[SohRon]

Tightened back the axle holders (gap in front, torqued rear first).

Exactly the opposite to how it's supposed to be done; gap to the rear, tighten front nuts first!

[MCRider]

Among everything else going on here, that looks like the wrong spacer. Shouldn't it fit inside the oil/grease seal?

[MCRider]

Among everything else going on here, that looks like the wrong spacer. Shouldn't it fit inside the oil/grease seal?

Secoond look, seems OK, nevermind.

[fendersrule]

Tightened back the axle holders (gap in front, torqued rear first).

Exactly the opposite to how it's supposed to be done; gap to the rear, tighten front nuts first!

The manual is wrong. Hondaman stated that the gap should be in the front. He listed some experiences working at the factory, and I think there was even a stress test done to prove this one out. I found the thread yesterday, but you can search and find it.

[SohRon]

Tightened back the axle holders (gap in front, torqued rear first).

Exactly the opposite to how it's supposed to be done; gap to the rear, tighten front nuts first!

The manual is wrong. Hondaman stated that the gap should be in the front. He listed some experiences working at the factory, and I think there was even a stress test done to prove this one out. I found the thread yesterday, but you can search and find it.

Yes, we've all seen the thread you reference; however, this is one of the few cases where HondaMan is wrong...   

Here's an update from Honda that gives the real skinny:



The procedure HondaMan presents may have been a temporary experiment that was quickly abandoned. It's too bad he hasn't corrected his info as quite a few have been mislead by it...

We love him but nobody's perfect!   

Get the gap to the rear, tightening the front nuts first as discussed...

[MCRider]

I gotta go with you on this SOHRON. Just the way i was raised. One can do a Google search on this and its almost universal across manufacturers lines.

Ex: 4th post in this thread:  http://www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/314593-kz-650-b1-front-axle-clamp-bolt-brokenhelp

Can you put that service bulletin in the SB thread?

[SohRon]

I gotta go with you on this SOHRON. Just the way i was raised. One can do a Google search on this and its almost universal across manufacturers lines.

Ex: 4th post in this thread:  http://www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/314593-kz-650-b1-front-axle-clamp-bolt-brokenhelp

Can you put that service bulletin in the SB thread?

Will do, MC.

[MCRider]

Scroll down slightly to 73 Gen-4 (1973)
http://kawtriple.com/mraxl/bulletins.htm#Bulletin: 73 Gen-4

Kawasaki Svc Bulletins

[fendersrule]

thx guys!

[fendersrule]

Do i have to remove the 8 or so bolts that go around the speedometer to make sure that my speedo notch is engaged? Is there any other clue?

You guys tighten the axle bolt when it's installed, correct? (with the retainers loosened)

[Dave Voss]

Do i have to remove the 8 or so bolts that go around the speedometer to make sure that my speedo notch is engaged? Is there any other clue?

No, the speedometer drive plate (trapped by the brake disc fasteners) is statically positioned and does not change, it's the driven assembly (that the axle passes through) that needs to be engaged correctly, remove it and look at the inside, and the tabs that need to be aligned will make sense.

You guys tighten the axle bolt when it's installed, correct? (with the retainers loosened)

I tighten the axle nut (by using a wrench on the flats on one end, and a torque wrench on the axle nut on the other end) with the wheel off and away from the forks, and then install it afterward.

[fendersrule]

Took the wheel off. The speedo unit comes right off after the axle bolt is loosened/removed.

I can see the two notches. I cleaned, and then dabbed a good amount of Silkolene WaterProof racing grease behind the speedo (against the bearing, in the recess, in the notch, etc) and then fitted it correctly. It took me about 5 minutes to understand what the "right" fit feels like by fiddling with it. It may have been correct before.

You'll need a long 22mm socket to torque the axle nut. 19mm is my biggest. So I decided to man wrench it. Got it pretty darn tight using two wrenches. I don't feel that it's going anywhere.

Flipped the retainers around per the service bulletin. I went to 25-30lbs for the front retainer nuts. 16-18PSI per the manual seems kinda low to me. Gap in the rear now. Torqued the front first.

Wheel seems to spin better now. With a good push on the stand, I can get a revolution...maybe a little more. I probably should re-adjust my caliper now that this is done. That's an easy thing to do...adjust until it rubs, then back off a little.

This may have gotten rid of that faint metal sound that I hear.