Topic: Found an H4 on my 77 cb550...now what to do?

[RAFster122s]

Headlamp reflectors are vapor deposited chrome, so I don't know where you got the quote but I would view it with suspicion. The Cibie or Hella H4 headlamps are excellent.

Marchal were original equipment on several Ferraris and period correct restoration is worth it to many.

Headlamps bulbs decline in performance with time, recommend you change your bulbs every year to 18 months for a bike that is ridden often.

[bryanj]

Dusterdude, we do try and i must admit that our version of "Straight Faced Humour" did not always go down well on my visits to the US. I have always enjoyed my visits and found, especially in Florida, that you Yanks always take our money with a smile. Seriously NASA put up one helluva candle on my 50th (16th Jan 2003) so unfortunate it didn't make it back but I am glad I saw the liftoff.

It's a good job we are all a great natured bunch on here and can have fun, otherwise it's not worth a damn

[motosan]

Headlamp reflectors are vapor deposited chrome, so I don't know where you got the quote but I would view it with suspicion. The Cibie or Hella H4 headlamps are excellent.

you mean $75 is too cheap or a rip-off?

Marchal were original equipment on several Ferraris and period correct restoration is worth it to many.

so, i should be asking for vapor deposited chrome plating to make it a correct restoration.  Gotcha!  It sounds like I have more researching to do .

[dave500]

find something like this.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BOSCH-GENUINE-H4-CONVERSION-HEADLAMP-7-ROUND-VARIOUS-APPLICATIONS-M-BULK-/190712041303?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6752cf57#ht_399wt_1152

[FuZZie]

Thats the bosch kit I was original trying to link up from the candlepower site Dave, but they were out of stock. That fleebay kit dosen't include the low watt bulb other wise it's golden.

[motosan]

Headlamp reflectors are vapor deposited chrome

I'm having a tough time finding anyone who does that.  It appears most companies who have PVD capability is a large scale b2b plant, not a retail shop. The small plating shops all said either silver or chrome plating can be done (whatever the method they use, and no PVD.  Any thoughts??

[dave500]

if you really want a nice lamp that works well during the day and night just buy a new quality one,dont frigg around chasing rechroming etc?if that super marchal one is valuable sell it on or save it,it aint much good if it has a #$%*ty reflector?that bosch one i have with a 60/55 osram silver star globe has street signs reflecting during the day,that link i posted is to an aussie site but youll get the same stuff your side of the world,even a truck supply place will stock hella 7 inch or narva etc?

[motosan]

if you really want a nice lamp that works well during the day and night just buy a new quality one,dont frigg around chasing rechroming etc?if that super marchal one is valuable sell it on or save it,it aint much good if it has a #$%*ty reflector?that bosch one i have with a 60/55 osram silver star globe has street signs reflecting during the day,that link i posted is to an aussie site but youll get the same stuff your side of the world,even a truck supply place will stock hella 7 inch or narva etc?

don't get me wrong dave, I'm folloing your suggestion to get a bosch h4, which I found at a very good price.  I'm not really planning on selling it now especially at current condition.  I just want to get a correct idea on how to go about restoring an old piece that "might" be worth more than the cost of repair.  Plus I like the look of the glass on the Marchal light, which has a cat in the center.

[Deltarider]

Maréchal, Cibié, Hella, Bosch, they'r all good brands. I run a Hella, the same that was on first models VW Golf. Cheaper H4 bulbs tend to darken earlier. Philips and Osram are excellent brands and always do good in tests. I favour Philips for their innovation.

[RAFster122s]

Not sure why you want to rechrome the headlamp you have. I would toss it or reassemble and sell used. A good glass headlamp housing as mentioned is the way to go.  Upgrade the wiring to run power directly from battery to a relay is best I think as the heavier wire can carry without any strain. Running through a relay is a good way to get a brighter headlight as there is less loss...

If you must rechrome your headlamp, then start looking for places that build mirrors for telescopes. They do vapor deposit work...

David

[motosan]

Not sure why you want to rechrome the headlamp you have. I would toss it or reassemble and sell used. A good glass headlamp housing as mentioned is the way to go.  Upgrade the wiring to run power directly from battery to a relay is best I think as the heavier wire can carry without any strain. Running through a relay is a good way to get a brighter headlight as there is less loss...

If you must rechrome your headlamp, then start looking for places that build mirrors for telescopes. They do vapor deposit work...

David

Thanks for the input on who'll do the pvd work!

For a relay....well....that's where I'm lost at.  I know some here have been doing without it and totally fine/satisfied.  I might go without it but will search the forum for future reference (I really have no idea how electrics work).

By the way, I AM getting a BOSCH H4 and just "thinking" of restoring the old unit. 

And to explain why I stupidly (lol) want to restore as many of you understandably wonder.....

• The current condition is horrible and won't even get $10 for it
• The company doesn't really exist anymore, and this unit was made in 1978 before Marchal sold the company...that makes it even more unique.  I like anything old and unique, and think those have a good value whatever the reason might be.  I'm sure for many people spending thousands on "an old junk" like 77 CB550 is crazy and makes no effinig sense, does it?
• I like love the design of the glass with a cat in the center.
• Why not at least find what it takes to restore its beauty?  I'm really not planning on selling it.  But it's nice to know those who restore old  Ferrari might be after this unit with a wad of cash, maybe lol

After all, this light seems unique with a good design, good performance if properly restored, and possible pretty rare.  That's good enough for me to spend a little extra money to make my bike more unique.....if the price is right of course lol

[BobbyR]

Ah well TT what it is over here is that England is so small in comparison and our roads are a lot older and follow the path lines from when people walked round trees, rocks,robbers(goverment or private), etc plus we have gzillions of roundabouts and drive on the correct side of the road so we have to have better lights in order to see the brick wall just before we hit it at speed.

But seriously I have noticed that  alot of US lights dip straight up and down whilst the european ones have a cut off pattern that alters depending on LH or RH drive

The US DOT has been a pain in the ass when it comes to headlights. The last update was 45 years ago. They have some phobia about candlepower and glare.

I owned a set of Marchals and used them on my Firebirds. They are the finest headlights ever sold. The optically ground lens had a razor sharp cut off to the left and reached forward on the right. I found fewer people cutting me off moving left because they could see my light. You aimed them shining against a wall with a tape measure.

My friend is one of the largest distributors of Hella and the rest. None are as good as the Marchals were.

We did use aircraft landing lights for street racing back in the 1960's.

[FuZZie]

For a relay....well....that's where I'm lost at.  I know some here have been doing without it and totally fine/satisfied.  I might go without it but will search the forum for future reference (I really have no idea how electrics work).

That is why the low wattage h4, you shouldn't need the relay with it unless you have a secondary charging/switch issue? 

[trueblue]

For a relay....well....that's where I'm lost at.  I know some here have been doing without it and totally fine/satisfied.  I might go without it but will search the forum for future reference (I really have no idea how electrics work).

A relay isn't necessarily required, but it does help prolong the life of your factory switch gear

[BobbyR]

Years ago we did a test to see what the draw would be from the low wattage H4 vs a standard sealed beam bulb. The standard drew about 2 amps and the H4 drew 4 anps.

My old man was a freak for current draw having come up running cars with 6V systems and marginal generators. Oh he could squeeze the last life out of a battery even if he had to park on a hill. He made good money, he was just raised thrifty German.   

[TwoTired]

For a relay....well....that's where I'm lost at.  I know some here have been doing without it and totally fine/satisfied.  I might go without it but will search the forum for future reference (I really have no idea how electrics work).

A relay isn't necessarily required, but it does help prolong the life of your factory switch gear

Agreed.

Do measure the voltage drop between battery and headlight, both positive and negative paths.  If there is more than a 0.5 Volt difference between measured terminals.  Then the electrical pathway wires and/or switches and fuse contacts need to be refurbished.  And, while higher wattage headlight will certainly appear brighter compared to a lower wattage bulb, the bulb are all rated at 12.8V.  If you lower the available voltage to either bulb, they both will be dimmer than possible with low supply voltage.  All those connection resistive losses will throw more source power away as heat, instead of light.  All a relay really does is band aid a problem that is still there lurking.

Normally you stand on two feet.  If one of them is injured, is it a total cure to stand on just one foot and a crutch?  Some of the pain stops, yes.  But, full functionality is still impaired.  Is it ok to just let the injured foot rot away and get use to using the crutch, rather than repair the injured foot?

[phil71]

How exactly would touching a bulb turn a chrome refractor to bronze?

[RAFster122s]

Tarnish,
need to clean and wipe down with isopropyl alcohol and no touching the glass or chrome or shiny parts...
Oils from your skin can cause halogen and the like headlamp bulb inserts to fail prematurely.

[TwoTired]

How exactly would touching a bulb turn a chrome refractor to bronze?

Skin oils are slightly acidic.  Chrome is usually plated over copper/ nickel.   Etch away the chrome with acid and it looks bronze in color.  Severity is related to the plating thickness and the exact process used during chroming.

[FuZZie]

I'm basing this on a google part look up (I didn't cross check the part number but this should be original for my bike)  for an example this should be fine.

So using Part number 33120-333-670 (HM-23M-S) and It's spec is: 12V 50/35 Watts .
What is important is the amps (volts = frequency of travel or speed, Amps is the power or work it will do)

To find amps is simple it's just watts divided by volts.

50 watt bulb @ 12v = 4.16 amps
45 watt bulb @ 12v = 3.75 amps
35 watt bulb @ 12v = 2.91 amps

This puts the low watt h4/45 lamp in the middle of spec, still 0.85 amps over starting with the low beam on but I don't think it's enough to cause me damage.

[TwoTired]

What is important is the amps (volts = frequency of travel or speed, Amps is the power or work it will do)

I don't know where you got this.  But, standard convention is Volts = potential, and current is force of flow.  You need both to produce power which is Watts.

The analogy is usually to that of water.  A bucket of water is potential.    A hole in the bottom of a bucket provides current flow.  And, yes, there is power being produced when water flows.  Hoover dam is a rather large example.

FYI

[FuZZie]

I used my own words, I just went from high school shop class memories. (it's been a while is a understatement )

I don't remember it all word for word so your's are fine with me. As long as were on the same page that damage from resistance to "force of flow" is what were trying to avoid and the math works it's all gravy.

[BobbyR]

Nonetheless, this year I took the time to clean all of the connectors on my bike. I did not take voltage readings before and after. I still have the turn signal beeper. I noticed immediately that I did not have to rev the motor to keep the turn signals flashing and the beeper beeping at the red light I usually get stuck at.  Not terribly scientific, but it is observable change.   

[motosan]

For a relay....well....that's where I'm lost at.  I know some here have been doing without it and totally fine/satisfied.  I might go without it but will search the forum for future reference (I really have no idea how electrics work).

A relay isn't necessarily required, but it does help prolong the life of your factory switch gear

Agreed.

Do measure the voltage drop between battery and headlight, both positive and negative paths.  If there is more than a 0.5 Volt difference between measured terminals.  Then the electrical pathway wires and/or switches and fuse contacts need to be refurbished.  And, while higher wattage headlight will certainly appear brighter compared to a lower wattage bulb, the bulb are all rated at 12.8V.  If you lower the available voltage to either bulb, they both will be dimmer than possible with low supply voltage.  All those connection resistive losses will throw more source power away as heat, instead of light.  All a relay really does is band aid a problem that is still there lurking.

Normally you stand on two feet.  If one of them is injured, is it a total cure to stand on just one foot and a crutch?  Some of the pain stops, yes.  But, full functionality is still impaired.  Is it ok to just let the injured foot rot away and get use to using the crutch, rather than repair the injured foot?

Perfect.  I was getting tired of looking crowded wires in the headlight housing.  I'll clean it up and do the voltage check.  I'll pick up 45/45w from Candle Power tomorrow. 

honestly...the bike has been in restoration mode...so I'm not sure about the charging system.  I'll assume it's fine for now. 

now on to researching exactly what relay consists of, how they are wired (i recall directly to battery -> relay -> light), and where they will sit in my shopping list!

[Don R]

Casket manufacturers use matal vaporization too. I've seen it done. It doesn't last like chrome but once it's buried, few complaints.