Topic: What bothers me

[lucky]

When beginners strip, break, damage, and lose parts and will not even buy a shop manual. Many of those parts are no longer manufactured.

A real shop manual... not online down loads.

[kammery]

 I agree . Restoring a motorcycle is like artwork . To show accomplishment and pride . There is no finer a reward than seeing before and after . Restoration takes time and planing.

[70CB750]

So what is the magic hiding in the printed manual and what is missing in the dowńloaded manual?

Or do you use the real shop manual to perform magic? You know holy water, black chicken, some candles, clymor manual at midnight at crossroads to cure carburetors? 

[flybox1]

I got ALL the magic in mine....it's downloaded AND printed 
When I open it...the room darkens and my shop candles mysteriously blow out.


Lucky, those of us who downloaded it, were amazed to find that it's....


...THE REAL THING!!!!! 
you might be amazed too...but then again we all know you've got your own copy.

Not everyone wants to afford an authentic copy.

[Stev-o]

Would have bet Lucky was going to say 630 chains bother him.

I have three!

[70CB750]

I got ALL the magic in mine....it's downloaded AND printed 
When I open it...the room darkens and my shop candles mysteriously blow out.


Lucky, those of us who downloaded it, were amazed to find that it's....


...THE REAL THING!!!!! 
you might be amazed too...but then again we all know you've got your own copy.

Not everyone wants to afford an authentic copy.

Printed and binded it sits on the shelf in my shop. I also print useful stuff from here and just add it to the binder, sorted and marked.

[KrautKoffin]

Would have bet Lucky was going to say 630 chains bother him.

I have three!

Hahaha


Lucky, mail me a hard copy of the manual!

[750K]

Lucky, I'll trade you a worn out 630 chain and sprocket set for a factory manual?

[Black 750K8]

Don't bully lucky. I understand some may think his ways are a bit unorthodox but he is trying. We all have our little quirky ways. Some more than others.

@ lucky I think the downloaded manual from this site is a copy of the oem Honda shop manual. With the supplements. My 78 750K has a new 630 chain and it is just fine to me. You do need to get over the 630 chain . Different strokes for different folks . Also this is NOT the correct forum for this topic so I am done here. 

[KrautKoffin]

Don't bully lucky. I understand some may think his ways are a bit unorthodox but he is trying. We all have our little quirky ways. Some more than others.

@ lucky I think the downloaded manual from this site is a copy of the oem Honda shop manual. With the supplements. My 78 750K has a new 630 chain and it is just fine to me. You do need to get over the 630 chain . Different strokes for different folks . Also this is NOT the correct forum for this topic so I am done here. 

I think you got me wrong, I like lucky. I just bought a choke off of him and I see myself being just like him when I reach the age that I know too much  you lucky.

[CB750F2]

I have a copy of the downloaded manual for my CB750F2 and the factory hard copy manual. The downloaded manual is missing the chapter for the transmission. Pat

[timbo750]

I have a copy of the downloaded manual for my CB750F2 and the factory hard copy manual. The downloaded manual is missing the chapter for the transmission. Pat

Pat I have a Clymer manual for the Cb750F if you are interested in buying it. i clicked on the wrong one when I ordered on line and didn't realise till it arrived. I have been meaning to put it on ebay or gumtree. Tim

[seanbarney41]

I actually prefer the Clymer manual, at times.  As it is not a translation, it's wording is often easier to understand.  Also the factory manuals will always refer to specific unobtainium Honda tools and test equipment...and I always laugh at my cb350 twin factory manual wiring diagram...when it has something labeled as the "regurator".

[CB750F2]

Tim, thanks for the offer but I already have the Clymer. I just mentioned that the chapter for the transmission was missing in the downloaded version just to highlight the fact the some of the downloaded manuals may not be complete. A member has previously photo copied the missing chapter and sent it to me. Pat

[jheck10]

These days, with this forum, YouTube, and online manuals, there's no excuse for screwing it up.  All you have to do is ask.  Reminds me of a shop sign I saw once... something like; labor rate - $100 / hour, labor rate to fix your screw ups- $200 / hour. 

[Dream750]

The factory shop manual may not be enough if you’re guilty of missing the official binder, as you don’t want to upset the Honda gods.    
 
I also use the Clymer at times and for the 750 K owners, look for the copy that has “hi performance” marked on the cover. This version has a 34 page chapter titled: Performance Improvement. Good informative how-to reading along with photos and illustrations.

[SohRon]

I have both the downloaded and hard copy of the CB550 manual and have to say that the hardcopy is more detailed and more comprehensive in the explanations of procedures than the one available here on the site. Not sure why; maybe a later version? I hardly ever use the downloaded copy... in fact, I don't think I've ever relied on it for anything. Just my .02$. I have the Clymer book, the Haynes and the Chilton's as well as the hardcopy Honda manual and none of them cover everything... in fact, even with all of them there are still gray areas.

Us old geezers need to hold things... with you young guys it's all in your head...

.

[ekpent]

I've noticed the Haynes has a British flair with some of the wording and descriptions.

[flybox1]

When beginners.... will not even buy a shop manual.

A real shop manual... not online down loads.

I guess I'll continue to bother lucky    'cause i ain't buying one!

...but that binder is pretty cool.  thanks Dream!   

[lucky]

Lucky, I'll trade you a worn out 630 chain and sprocket set for a factory manual?

I did not say "factory" manual.

A Clymers manual will do just fine.
It has photos and illustrations and they are NOT 72 DPI like your computer screen.

[lucky]

The factory shop manual may not be enough if you’re guilty of missing the official binder, as you don’t want to upset the Honda gods.    
 
I also use the Clymer at times and for the 750 K owners, look for the copy that has “hi performance” marked on the cover. This version has a 34 page chapter titled: Performance Improvement. Good informative how-to reading along with photos and illustrations.

Great info about the "high performance " mark on the cover.

[crazypj]

It doesn't matter how many manuals you have if you don't understand what your doing and are easily frustrated.
You can't fix stupid out of a book
Common sense is the most important 'tool'
Unfortunately, it's severely lacking in majority of people (in my 11-1/2 yrs teaching -10,000+ students)

[SohRon]

Lucky, I'll trade you a worn out 630 chain and sprocket set for a factory manual?

I did not say "factory" manual.

A Clymers manual will do just fine.
It has photos and illustrations and they are NOT 72 DPI like your computer screen.

I have to disagree... the Clymers manual isn't close to being enough. It must be used with great care and as an addition to the Honda book! Clymers has some great drawings, I'll agree, but it's sorely lacking elsewhere...

[70CB750]

It doesn't matter how many manuals you have if you don't understand what your doing and are easily frustrated.
You can't fix stupid out of a book
Common sense is the most important 'tool'
Unfortunately, it's severely lacking in majority of people (in my 11-1/2 yrs teaching -10,000+ students)

+1

Seems you know the owner of the shop I worked for 

[flybox1]

...so if i download a copy of the clymer, will i be ok?   

[750K]

Lucky, I'll trade you a worn out 630 chain and sprocket set for a factory manual?

I did not say "factory" manual.

A Clymers manual will do just fine.
It has photos and illustrations and they are NOT 72 DPI like your computer screen.

I have to disagree... the Clymers manual isn't close to being enough. It must be used with great care and as an addition to the Honda book! Clymers has some great drawings, I'll agree, but it's sorely lacking elsewhere...

The clymer is passable, it's all I have for my cb750 and it does the job for the most part. I picked one up for my kz1000 while I was waiting for the Kawi factory service manual and it's night and day how much more I get out of the factory Kawi book. Better pics and way more thorough descriptions and exploded view, I only use the kz clymer to double check torque values.

[LesterPiglet]

I've always found Haynes to be much better than Clymer.

[lucky]

...so if i download a copy of the clymer, will i be ok?   

If it has all of the photos and all of the illustrations.
It will still be low quality and all of that printing may cost more than a used Clymers' on Ebay.
Also the manual will be twice as thick if it is printed on one side.

[lucky]

Lucky, I'll trade you a worn out 630 chain and sprocket set for a factory manual?

I did not say "factory" manual.

A Clymers manual will do just fine.
It has photos and illustrations and they are NOT 72 DPI like your computer screen.

I have to disagree... the Clymers manual isn't close to being enough. It must be used with great care and as an addition to the Honda book! Clymers has some great drawings, I'll agree, but it's sorely lacking elsewhere...

Yes that is true.
But it does show in great detail how to adjust your floats.

So many people come to the forum and ask a lot about that.
There must not be any drawings on the downloaded shop manual, OR they cannot use the internet and find images of how to adjust the floats.

[flybox1]

thanks. 
i got the hi-res copy and printed it single sided color on 11 x 14 so the pictures would look better.





...i really hope you know i'm kidding   

[Dream750]

...but that binder is pretty cool.  thanks Dream!   

Flybox, your welcome. One of the good things about the genuine shop manual binders is they have 7 rings for “official” copies and the really original ones will also have the dividers. Since Honda shop binders are becoming more of a collectible, they are going up in price. Elan has a nice original example CB750 manual for sale in this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126832.0

[Lostboy Steve]

When beginners strip, break, damage, and lose parts and will not even buy a shop manual. Many of those parts are no longer manufactured.

A real shop manual... not online down loads.

You mean a real paper copy? I downloaded the pdf of a few different bikes and then printed them out and put them into a binder. I don't know if that counts or not. Honestly, for the most part I only need select information. In fact, I could probably just make a "cheat sheet" for most of the stuff. I was able to restore my 77 550 by using a pdf. The only real info I needed was clearance info, and torque specs. I had to re-do my pd carbs without anything because I couldn't find a great exploded view. I got through it. If you have a general idea of how things work, aside from torque specs I don't see the complete need for a manual. Obviously it will help. Back, before the internet it was probably a lot more difficult to get a manual for an older bike. I agree though, if you are a complete beginner do like I did to learn, lable everything, put all your nuts and bolts into dividers so you know where they go and make sure you torque everything with a decent wrench, not some harbor freight deal that may be off 10ft/lbs. Let's not forget Lucky that we cant fix stupid. Even a manual wont help that.

[Lostboy Steve]

It doesn't matter how many manuals you have if you don't understand what your doing and are easily frustrated.
You can't fix stupid out of a book
Common sense is the most important 'tool'
Unfortunately, it's severely lacking in majority of people (in my 11-1/2 yrs teaching -10,000+ students)

+1

Seems you know the owner of the shop I worked for 

You both beat me to it.

[lucky]

When beginners strip, break, damage, and lose parts and will not even buy a shop manual. Many of those parts are no longer manufactured.

A real shop manual... not online down loads.

You mean a real paper copy? I downloaded the pdf of a few different bikes and then printed them out and put them into a binder. I don't know if that counts or not. Honestly, for the most part I only need select information. In fact, I could probably just make a "cheat sheet" for most of the stuff. I was able to restore my 77 550 by using a pdf. The only real info I needed was clearance info, and torque specs. I had to re-do my pd carbs without anything because I couldn't find a great exploded view. I got through it. If you have a general idea of how things work, aside from torque specs I don't see the complete need for a manual. Obviously it will help. Back, before the internet it was probably a lot more difficult to get a manual for an older bike. I agree though, if you are a complete beginner do like I did to learn, lable everything, put all your nuts and bolts into dividers so you know where they go and make sure you torque everything with a decent wrench, not some harbor freight deal that may be off 10ft/lbs. Let's not forget Lucky that we cant fix stupid. Even a manual wont help that.

A PDF is a (portable document file) developed by large businesses to transmit large documents over the web at high speed.
Of course there are 3 levels of PDF's with different quality.
Web quality,Print quality etc.,,
It takes a special program to change the quality of  the PDF.

You cannot easily alter a PDF file with out all of the add on programs like(Pit Stop) etc.,.
You have to buy each one of those programs.
Some PDF's have security codes and can even open with a music file.


If you save a Photoshop file or illustrator or Freehand file as a PDF, then you will not be able to alter that file.

Artists do not like PDF's. IT will take a Photoshop file or vector file which could have 44 editable layers, and change it to 1 layer which then cannot be altered.
Business people like them because they do not know about Photoshop or  vector based programs.

I don't think people are stupid, I think they just do not have any interest in details.
They just want to use things and do not want to repair them.
A young man learns hopefully that if he breaks his bike, he will have to fix it.
Some dads just bought the kid a new bike instead of showing them how to fix the bike. So the kid learned that if something does not work or breaks, you just buy a new one.