Topic: So, you want to run pods?

[Floshenbarnical]

Floshenbarnical, props to you for working successfully with the pd's.

I think the fact that I love old bikes IS because they are slower.  I do currently own a 2004 599 Hornet, and going silly speeds on it is just effortless.  I guess riding a slow bike fast IS more fun than riding a fast bike slow...cuz I don't need the speeding tickets, and I am just not a good enough rider to use what that 599 has got.

I'll say to you what I said to a young woman I ride with who was teasing me that her Ninja 400 is faster. "How quickly do you need to die?" For me, there is such a thing as "enough" acceleration, and it's not like I'll be taking it much past 70 on the highway regardless, because if I get so much as a speeding ticket I'll lose my job; I sell Honda cars, and our insurance company won't insure people with speeding tickets/ DUIs etc. If I'm not insured, I can't drive the cars and therefore can't sell them.

She said "ok dad" and I told her to meet me at the track and put her money where her mouth is. I'm not fooling around on public roads where I'm responsible for the safety of others in addition to my own.

[HondaMan]

I'd have to concur with the [definition of] 'riding fast' now, as compared to the good ol' days...when I came to CO it was the era of the CB750 and when ripping up mountain roads it was often another one that I would overtake, or would overtake me. As the liter bikes changed that, I was concentrating on 'how to carry stuff' so my wife could ride along at the irritating 55 MPH, and the 750 cooperated by having more accessories made for it than any other bike in history - so, I concentrated on that, and adjusting it to handle the new loads (or not, as I also rode solo a lot). Then was when I found myself helping other 750 riders do the same in increasing numbers around here, as the CBX tried to lure me away (but my wallet tied me down then). In retrospect, I probably would have killed myself had I actually bought the CBX, as I found myself deucing out larger bikes in the high Rockies' twisties with my old steed, while seldom pushing triple digits. At first, I found this perplexing as they should have kicked my tires, but in the end it was because of how well I know this 750, and what it will/won't do as I enter that next turn/hill/uneven road.

I sure can't ride anything else as well, now.

[newday777]

Mark, I can fully understand the lure of the CBX as I was living in Breckenridge when they hit the streets there. I  came up behind one in 79 on the road into Breck, I hadn’t seen one before and motioned a roll on....and he just walked away from me as my jaw hit the tank.....and yes I couldn't afford one either. Until that point I held my own even there at 9,000'.

[Floshenbarnical]

Might have to end up running pods after all (for this season, at least) as the POS PO has welded the ignition right in the perfect spot to prevent the airbox from quite sitting in the correct position. Infuriating. I suppose I could have checked sooner, but that's life isn't it.

[dave500]

mate of mine has a cbx,its absoutely mint,it spent ten years in a guys lounge room!way too big for me im only 5 foot four but i had a ride on it,man what a thing,effortless and so smooth power,id hate to own one come valve service/adjustment time,you have to tilt the motor forward to remove the covers im told?

[PeWe]

...even for air filter change too. A friend told me.....

[dave500]

and you gotta send the fuel tank away to be re filled!(joking)

[RAFster122s]

If it were nuclear powered then you would only have the change the rods (power source) every couple decades...

[MisterKnife]

despite Murray's claims, you still gonna have the same jetting challenge...just wayyyy farther from a starting baseline and limited performance potential.  The only reason you would need new clutch, is because all the low end torque is gone and you are just pinning it and popping the clutch just to get going. 

Still not sure why folks asking questions on internet forums (as good and knowledgeable as this one is) are still thinking that their back yard tinkering is gonna come up with something better than dozens of highly paid and successful Japanese engineers.

That's very interesting, I was under the impression that his setup is fairly plug-and-play because he pre-jets them based on the info I give him regarding my setup? Do you have any more info regarding that? I tried running a few forum searches and didn't come up with much.

Regarding the clutch use on Murray's carbs, how does this affect the friction zone for low-speed maneuvers? Am I going to have to keep the bike revving over 3000rpm just to perform a U-turn in first gear?

All I really know is what I have seen....guys showing up to bike shows or group ride with brand new Murrays set-up and the bike is spittting, bangin, hanging revs, etc.  I don't really understand how Murray would be able to pre-jet based off info when that is not even 100% successful with stock set up.  Maybe these guys ordered off a website, not directly from Murray?  idk

If you do some searching, there are numerous build threads using Murray's, and I do not remember a single one having bolt on success.  In fact I remember more never getting the bike to run satisfactorally at all with the twin Mikuni set up.  At least one fellow with a 550 recently was well pleased semi recently.  I even saw a u-tube video that plain dropped my jaw with the video creator raving about how great his Murray's carbs were, starts up the bike on video, and showed on camera how much "better" it ran with the idle hanging unsteadily around 2500rpm, lets out the clutch and it falls on its face, etc.!

I got a set on my 550 and while it ran ok after mounting I added a Wideband to my exhaust and added the UFO's to them for the lower band and rejetted them. Runs a great Idle now at 1350rpm once it's warm. I do find that my lower band can get some work so might opt to switch to VM32 instead of the 34's as I have most of the jets for that. haha

[Floshenbarnical]

despite Murray's claims, you still gonna have the same jetting challenge...just wayyyy farther from a starting baseline and limited performance potential.  The only reason you would need new clutch, is because all the low end torque is gone and you are just pinning it and popping the clutch just to get going. 

Still not sure why folks asking questions on internet forums (as good and knowledgeable as this one is) are still thinking that their back yard tinkering is gonna come up with something better than dozens of highly paid and successful Japanese engineers.

That's very interesting, I was under the impression that his setup is fairly plug-and-play because he pre-jets them based on the info I give him regarding my setup? Do you have any more info regarding that? I tried running a few forum searches and didn't come up with much.

Regarding the clutch use on Murray's carbs, how does this affect the friction zone for low-speed maneuvers? Am I going to have to keep the bike revving over 3000rpm just to perform a U-turn in first gear?

All I really know is what I have seen....guys showing up to bike shows or group ride with brand new Murrays set-up and the bike is spittting, bangin, hanging revs, etc.  I don't really understand how Murray would be able to pre-jet based off info when that is not even 100% successful with stock set up.  Maybe these guys ordered off a website, not directly from Murray?  idk

If you do some searching, there are numerous build threads using Murray's, and I do not remember a single one having bolt on success.  In fact I remember more never getting the bike to run satisfactorally at all with the twin Mikuni set up.  At least one fellow with a 550 recently was well pleased semi recently.  I even saw a u-tube video that plain dropped my jaw with the video creator raving about how great his Murray's carbs were, starts up the bike on video, and showed on camera how much "better" it ran with the idle hanging unsteadily around 2500rpm, lets out the clutch and it falls on its face, etc.!

I got a set on my 550 and while it ran ok after mounting I added a Wideband to my exhaust and added the UFO's to them for the lower band and rejetted them. Runs a great Idle now at 1350rpm once it's warm. I do find that my lower band can get some work so might opt to switch to VM32 instead of the 34's as I have most of the jets for that. haha

Yeah after listening to the vets round here I rapidly lost interest in Murray's setup. Not least because there isn't enough space with my cognito moto oil tank I waited 2+ months for. Having tinkered here and there with various OEM jet sizes I have it pretty damn close to where I want it to be. The main thing I'm going to need to do is raise my needle a notch, I think, but I'm going to wait until the end of the season because I really don't feel like disassembling and reassembling them again just to gain a tiny bit of midrange. It's "good enough" for the few remaining weeks of good riding weather here in NY.

[willbird]

despite Murray's claims, you still gonna have the same jetting challenge...just wayyyy farther from a starting baseline and limited performance potential.  The only reason you would need new clutch, is because all the low end torque is gone and you are just pinning it and popping the clutch just to get going. 

Still not sure why folks asking questions on internet forums (as good and knowledgeable as this one is) are still thinking that their back yard tinkering is gonna come up with something better than dozens of highly paid and successful Japanese engineers.

That's very interesting, I was under the impression that his setup is fairly plug-and-play because he pre-jets them based on the info I give him regarding my setup? Do you have any more info regarding that? I tried running a few forum searches and didn't come up with much.

Regarding the clutch use on Murray's carbs, how does this affect the friction zone for low-speed maneuvers? Am I going to have to keep the bike revving over 3000rpm just to perform a U-turn in first gear?

All I really know is what I have seen....guys showing up to bike shows or group ride with brand new Murrays set-up and the bike is spittting, bangin, hanging revs, etc.  I don't really understand how Murray would be able to pre-jet based off info when that is not even 100% successful with stock set up.  Maybe these guys ordered off a website, not directly from Murray?  idk

If you do some searching, there are numerous build threads using Murray's, and I do not remember a single one having bolt on success.  In fact I remember more never getting the bike to run satisfactorally at all with the twin Mikuni set up.  At least one fellow with a 550 recently was well pleased semi recently.  I even saw a u-tube video that plain dropped my jaw with the video creator raving about how great his Murray's carbs were, starts up the bike on video, and showed on camera how much "better" it ran with the idle hanging unsteadily around 2500rpm, lets out the clutch and it falls on its face, etc.!

I got a set on my 550 and while it ran ok after mounting I added a Wideband to my exhaust and added the UFO's to them for the lower band and rejetted them. Runs a great Idle now at 1350rpm once it's warm. I do find that my lower band can get some work so might opt to switch to VM32 instead of the 34's as I have most of the jets for that. haha

Yeah after listening to the vets round here I rapidly lost interest in Murray's setup. Not least because there isn't enough space with my cognito moto oil tank I waited 2+ months for. Having tinkered here and there with various OEM jet sizes I have it pretty damn close to where I want it to be. The main thing I'm going to need to do is raise my needle a notch, I think, but I'm going to wait until the end of the season because I really don't feel like disassembling and reassembling them again just to gain a tiny bit of midrange. It's "good enough" for the few remaining weeks of good riding weather here in NY.

It is really worth an LOL when I see a video of any of the 4 into 2 carb setups. The bikes always end up running like utter crap  in the video while the owner gushes about how great the setup is :-).

Bill

[Nicklopic]

Just throwing this out there for people who do want to run pods:
May I suggest Mesmer moto velocity stacks. They are definitely very expensive but really nice pieces. I’ve been running them on my 650. I tuned my carbs with a wideband and AFRs are steady, crosswinds do not cause sputters or sneezing, I don’t have any weird hiccups getting on it or anything. They just work. The way he designed the inlets make sense to smooth and direct air right into the throat of the carbs solving many of the short coming of pods.
They’re 3D printed but he uses I think pa12 or something strong and you can’t even see layer lines in them

[Floshenbarnical]

I just want to add my $0.02 for anyone considering running pods on a CB with PD carbs. I was having all sorts of issues - wandering idle, hanging revs, stumbling, hesitation, etc.

When I rebuilt carbs/ started tuning I knew some of the felt seals on my choke/ throttle shafts were missing, but I couldn't find replacements so I just ran with it. I had cleaned all the passages out with carb cleaner and guitar wire, replaced all the rubber, etc. Adjusted valves, cam chain tensioner, nailed ignition timing, synced carbs, spent ages running idle adjustment procedure, etc. Still the bike wanted to hesitate and stumble transitioning between throttle positions, wanted to hold 2500 RPM at stoplights, wanted the idle to wander all over the place, etc.

I replaced the carburetors with professionally restored ones (sonic cleaned, all felt seals/ big O-rings replaced etc) and used the *exact* jets from my original set. Stock needle position.

All those issues are gone. The bike just does what it's supposed to. If I blip the throttle, the idle drops back to where it should be immediately. It holds idle RPM like a surgeon with a scalpel. It accelerates smoothly through all throttle positions and jet transitions, it does not stumble, it does not fall flat on its face. So I'm assuming my home-restored PD41Bs were just FUBAR with still-dirty passages and missing felt seals. These PD42As are sparkly, and seem to have fixed the issues.

Regardless, I'm going to run some plug chops at the local airfield tomorrow. The runway isn't long enough for a main jet plug chop, but there's a service road alongside that is very long and recently repaved. I'm not experienced enough to tell if it's a tad lean or rich just by riding it, so I want to find out for sure mainly for engine longevity.

So it can be done. Just might take you over 3 months, and $200 in brass. As I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I'm doing this out of necessity because I can't fit the airbox until I move the ignition.

For the record, it's a CB750F2, stock jetting is 35/105. I'm running 40/120 with K&N pods mounted on stacks with an open 4:1.

[MisterKnife]

despite Murray's claims, you still gonna have the same jetting challenge...just wayyyy farther from a starting baseline and limited performance potential.  The only reason you would need new clutch, is because all the low end torque is gone and you are just pinning it and popping the clutch just to get going. 

Still not sure why folks asking questions on internet forums (as good and knowledgeable as this one is) are still thinking that their back yard tinkering is gonna come up with something better than dozens of highly paid and successful Japanese engineers.

That's very interesting, I was under the impression that his setup is fairly plug-and-play because he pre-jets them based on the info I give him regarding my setup? Do you have any more info regarding that? I tried running a few forum searches and didn't come up with much.

Regarding the clutch use on Murray's carbs, how does this affect the friction zone for low-speed maneuvers? Am I going to have to keep the bike revving over 3000rpm just to perform a U-turn in first gear?

All I really know is what I have seen....guys showing up to bike shows or group ride with brand new Murrays set-up and the bike is spittting, bangin, hanging revs, etc.  I don't really understand how Murray would be able to pre-jet based off info when that is not even 100% successful with stock set up.  Maybe these guys ordered off a website, not directly from Murray?  idk

If you do some searching, there are numerous build threads using Murray's, and I do not remember a single one having bolt on success.  In fact I remember more never getting the bike to run satisfactorally at all with the twin Mikuni set up.  At least one fellow with a 550 recently was well pleased semi recently.  I even saw a u-tube video that plain dropped my jaw with the video creator raving about how great his Murray's carbs were, starts up the bike on video, and showed on camera how much "better" it ran with the idle hanging unsteadily around 2500rpm, lets out the clutch and it falls on its face, etc.!

I got a set on my 550 and while it ran ok after mounting I added a Wideband to my exhaust and added the UFO's to them for the lower band and rejetted them. Runs a great Idle now at 1350rpm once it's warm. I do find that my lower band can get some work so might opt to switch to VM32 instead of the 34's as I have most of the jets for that. haha

Yeah after listening to the vets round here I rapidly lost interest in Murray's setup. Not least because there isn't enough space with my cognito moto oil tank I waited 2+ months for. Having tinkered here and there with various OEM jet sizes I have it pretty damn close to where I want it to be. The main thing I'm going to need to do is raise my needle a notch, I think, but I'm going to wait until the end of the season because I really don't feel like disassembling and reassembling them again just to gain a tiny bit of midrange. It's "good enough" for the few remaining weeks of good riding weather here in NY.

It is really worth an LOL when I see a video of any of the 4 into 2 carb setups. The bikes always end up running like utter crap  in the video while the owner gushes about how great the setup is :-).

Bill

What do you think how this runs

[RAFster122s]

Sounds nice, throaty with the short exhaust muffler...it will get pretty loud when you open it up at speed. Depending upon your helmet and ear plugs is going to determine how much you hear of it.
Nice smooth idle, sewing machine noises of a SOHC4 motor are nice and steady.
Nice job.

[MisterKnife]

It’s not that loud. 96db at 4K. Ive added a db killer with fiberglass

[RAFster122s]

It’s not that loud. 96db at 4K. Ive added a db killer with fiberglass

You are right, it isn't that loud, I like quiet exhausts personally.
I like the sound I was hearing.

96dB is enough to give you hearing loss with an hour exposure. Repeated exposure will lead to permanent loss. I almost always ride with ear plugs to protect from wind noise more than anything. Wind noise will give you hearing loss too.

[MisterKnife]

O yeah, I always wear my custom alpines. Got too much nice audio equipment to lose my hearing, haha.

[seanbarney41]

Mister Knife that sounds like it is running pretty well.  How does the bike perform?  What did it take to have those running well?

[MisterKnife]

Preforms great for an engine with only 80-90psi. Great pull all the way through the 7k ( not going higher because I still need to rebuild the engine and there is one headbolt missing. )
I synced them with a digisync and have a wideband sensor in my exhaust.
AF: 13-13.5 IDLE - 11-12.5 throughout the rpm range

[Floshenbarnical]

It’s not that loud. 96db at 4K. Ive added a db killer with fiberglass

You are right, it isn't that loud, I like quiet exhausts personally.
I like the sound I was hearing.

96dB is enough to give you hearing loss with an hour exposure. Repeated exposure will lead to permanent loss. I almost always ride with ear plugs to protect from wind noise more than anything. Wind noise will give you hearing loss too.

I didn't know that about wind noise. I'm buying some ear plugs

[MisterKnife]

So I decided to try out the Quad Flow Torque Wing from thunder for my VM34's. They really do work well. I had to reduce my needle jet from P-8 to P-2 and adjusted the needle one clip down. If I now pull open the throttle it just screams and keeps going.
Would love to get my cruising A/F to around 13.5 but one can dream I suppose.

But I call it a success, now is it worth the price. Probably not but I feel the difference in the cleaner lower end.