Topic: Because I love debate... and I am bored

[mrbreeze]

Yeah....you guys gave Ebrandon a headache and now she's having a brewski. Ease up on on the philosofical stuff!!!

[Rsnip988]

The terms Evolution and Adaption are used interchangably and wrongly, they are not the same thing in the scientific community, evolution woulod be species changing completely to a different specie, I dont see this as possible or there would be new species everyday, THings do however adapt everyday slight changes in height bone structure color all slight changes but the same species...



(may have been mentioned before but i didnt feel like reading pages 4+5)

It doesnt matter one way or the other when we die, but you had better hope you are right and there is no GOD, I'd prefer to act like there is and be wrong than act like there isnt and be wrong


my 2 cents
RKS

[Raul CB750K1]

Think about how animal life is created. Ovule and spermatozoid get together and cells start to split. At such a microscopic level each cell knows where it have to go and what shape it should take. It's a perfect plan: let's grow in a warm, nurtured environment until I'm big enough to survive by myself -talking mammals-. My mind cannot think of any way of creating life in a better way, and when script writers have had the chance to invent a new way for a sci-fi movie -like alien generation-, they all come down to the egg-coccoon-reptile way, that is also known.

All the technological improvements we have achieved are just lousy copies of nature. It takes much money to design and build a one-person plane so a man can fly, but a simple bird that is born every second is capable of that. You can throw yourself on a parachute, but there are squirrels that can do something similar. Submarine technology is a copy of fish body. Aircraft design is a copy of bird's anatomy. The motorcycle evolved from the bicicle, and the first bicycles were wooden objects.... shaped like a horse!!! Long before people could read or write, they could communicate by talking. Paper, scripture, telephone, computers, are deviced that ease the communication process, but it existed long before. I say most of today's technology is just a try to improve nature. In many occasions this try is succesful -a motorcycle can travel faster and longer than a horse-, but still the horse was first; the man didn't invented nothing.


When the "death" subject is debated, I always say I have no fear for it -nor have it any hurry-. As we all have to die one day or another, I'm very excited because that day I die I will be the lucky one to get the answer to one of life's most intriguing question: what's beyond.


Raul

[Rsnip988]

I think thats the deepest most eloquent thing I have ever seen by Raul...... I am very pleased

RKS

[Jv550]

God is a creation of man. I live my life in an ethical manner not because I am afraid of being punished by an angry man in the sky but because I think it's the right thing to do. Jesus was a great philosopher, on the order of Plato and Socrates, but he wasn't the son of God and he didn't rise from the grave.
It always bothers me when supernaturalists claim there is no proof for evolution. (Like there is a shred of proof for anything in the bible.) We can actually watch evolution in action if we look at species with short life cycles. Look at insects - why are we always having to come up with new pesticides? Because like everything else on earth, insects naturally adapt to their environment. The ones with a genetic resistance to a certain environmental pressure live, thus passing their resistant genes on. Millions of adaptations over millions of years add up to evolution. We don't see new species everyday because it takes too many generations to observe the overall cumulative effect.  

Anyway I would much rather get into a horse vs motorcycle debate. Horses poop, bikes leak oil. Both cost too much. Which is better? Dual or single overhead feedbags?

[Rsnip988]

I'm not at all afraid of a big angry man in the sky, however I'd rather be safe than sorry,

I'm leaning toward "Tom's Both theory" in that both are a little right as they are both wrong,

Lets get back in the garages and out of the philosophy books for a bit shall we


RKS

[GeoffT]

God is a creation of man. I live my life in an ethical manner not because I am afraid of being punished by an angry man in the sky but because I think it's the right thing to do. Jesus was a great philosopher, on the order of Plato and Socrates, but he wasn't the son of God and he didn't rise from the grave.

I say again that this debate is very interesting even enthralling. I certainly do not know how the universe came to be but I can learn a lot from each theory that there is on the subject. 

JV, for those people that do not believe in a god or superior being it is good that many of them live life, as you do, in an 'ethical manner'. Certainly the world would be a better place if we all did. I do, however, have to take issue with your claim that Jesus was only a great philosopher, not the Son of God and did not rise from the dead. If you don't believe what Jesus said about himself then he is certainly not a great philosopher but, perhaps, a deluded man who believed himself to be the Son of God and in so doing brought about the greatest hoax of all time.

Of course I understand that your statement about Jesus is only what you believe but I thought it only right to offer to the discussion what other people may believe.

[loonymoon]

JV, for those people that do not believe in a god or superior being it is good that many of them live life, as you do, in an 'ethical manner'. Certainly the world would be a better place if we all did. I do, however, have to take issue with your claim that Jesus was only a great philosopher, not the Son of God and did not rise from the dead. If you don't believe what Jesus said about himself then he is certainly not a great philosopher but, perhaps, a deluded man who believed himself to be the Son of God and in so doing brought about the greatest hoax of all time.

Of course I understand that your statement about Jesus is only what you believe but I thought it only right to offer to the discussion what other people may believe.

But then how do we know that Jesus did say those things about himself? Perhaps the words were put into his mouth by people who wanted him to be divine..... Uh oh let's not get into a Da Vinci code debate now...

[GeoffT]

Uh oh let's not get into a Da Vinci code debate now...

I agree. Da Vinci Code is an enjoyable thriller but its still in the fiction section of the book shop. 

[firecracker]

We used to get stoned and have these conversations...

Okay.
                 
That means that...
                   
our whole solar system...
                   
could be, like...
                   
one tiny atom in the fingernail
of some other giant being.

   
                   
This is too much!

   
                   
That means...

one tiny atom in my fingernail could be--
Could be one little...
                   
tiny universe.

   
                   
Could l buy some pot from you?   

[anubiscycle]

I guess I should have clarified what I meant by evolution (I think my understanding is not how the scientific community branded it) . I guess it is better termed as adaptation. No I dont think a fish even turned into a cow or a bug into a snake.

I still stand on my "both" soap box. 

[Rsnip988]

We used to get stoned and have these conversations...

Okay.
                 
That means that...
                   
our whole solar system...
                   
could be, like...
                   
one tiny atom in the fingernail
of some other giant being.

   
                   
This is too much!

   
                   
That means...

one tiny atom in my fingernail could be--
Could be one little...
                   
tiny universe.

   
                   
Could l buy some pot from you?   

Horton hears a Who


and

Men in Black

 possible yet improbable


RKS

[Rushoid]

Did anyone happen to watch "South Park" last night? Weird that it was about the evolution debate. Even mentioned the flying spaghetti monster. Stan asked "Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't (evolution) be the 'how' and not the 'why'?" At one point Mr. (Ms.) Garrison and a scientist talked about how great the world would be if nobody believed in any god. "No more Muslims killing Jews. No more Christians bombing abortion clinics." Fast forward to the future where the United Atheist Alliance is at war with the Atheist Action Alliance and the World Atheist League (or something along those lines).   Everyone was saying things like "Oh, my Science!" and "Science damn you!"

My personal belief: As Stan suggested, evolution is the "how." I believe that everything was created a very long time ago and has evolved to the current state. I believe that the "big bang" really happened, but that atom (or whatever 'sploded) had to come from somewhere. Maybe it was just a microscopic atom in another, larger universe (and the same thing happened there) or maybe God teed up a joke golf ball that one of his buddies gave him - I don't know (nor does anybody). But when everything settled down a bit, there was life. Life can't just happen by accident. So many things have to be just right for life to be sustained. What would it take for life to be accidentally created from nothing?

The science of evolution is just what scientists think happened. It is a THEORY! They have only proven things based on other theories. However, it makes sense to my analytical mind. So I think the answer is, as others have said: Both. They are not mutually exclusive.

[anubiscycle]

Very funny guys, your just trying to scare me.

No really, you have a 50 foot satelite dish stickin out of your ass 

[crazypj]

Hey, I was going to post about that, I saw it as well. (South Park)
I think I'm more for the evolution side of things, it isn't a theory its a fact, human bodies have reptile like musculature (6pack) remnants of gills, remnants of a tail and stuff.
Sometimes I used think there may be a superior being, but the last few years I have pretty much given up on the whole religion/god thing.
Now I'm more of the opiate of the masses opinion, it helps with crowd control on sundays (or friday, saturday, etc)
Too many hypocrites. When your dead, your dead. Scary thought to most people, is this all there is? The thought of an 'afterlife' with a chance to 'atone' (talk your way out of the nasty, bad things you did) Too much BS about walk the walk talk the talk, its for other people, either your good or your not (or varying shades of grey )
 Christianity is suppost to be about forgiveness but most of the 'christians' I meet think its OK to go out and kill whoever doesn't agree with you then dress it up as 'humanitarian' (including a certain president who 'talks to god')
Tthe 'eye for an eye' thing is Jewish not christian, just got hijacked, the Old Testament  is a history lesson. Those who dont learn from the past are doomed o repeat it (or words to that effect)
You cant prove a negative, if you want to believe thats fine, just don't use it as an excuse for your prejudice and narrow mindedness, and dont try to convert or help me find a... whatever.
PJ

[martini]

Think about how animal life is created. Ovule and spermatozoid get together and cells start to split. At such a microscopic level each cell knows where it have to go and what shape it should take. It's a perfect plan: let's grow in a warm, nurtured environment until I'm big enough to survive by myself -talking mammals-. My mind cannot think of any way of creating life in a better way, and when script writers have had the chance to invent a new way for a sci-fi movie -like alien generation-, they all come down to the egg-coccoon-reptile way, that is also known.

All the technological improvements we have achieved are just lousy copies of nature. It takes much money to design and build a one-person plane so a man can fly, but a simple bird that is born every second is capable of that. You can throw yourself on a parachute, but there are squirrels that can do something similar. Submarine technology is a copy of fish body. Aircraft design is a copy of bird's anatomy. The motorcycle evolved from the bicicle, and the first bicycles were wooden objects.... shaped like a horse!!! Long before people could read or write, they could communicate by talking. Paper, scripture, telephone, computers, are deviced that ease the communication process, but it existed long before. I say most of today's technology is just a try to improve nature. In many occasions this try is succesful -a motorcycle can travel faster and longer than a horse-, but still the horse was first; the man didn't invented nothing.


When the "death" subject is debated, I always say I have no fear for it -nor have it any hurry-. As we all have to die one day or another, I'm very excited because that day I die I will be the lucky one to get the answer to one of life's most intriguing question: what's beyond.


Raul

Will you Raul? Maybe not, maybe the lights will just go out and that will be that.

[andy750]

The science of evolution is just what scientists think happened. It is a THEORY! They have only proven things based on other theories."

It is not only a theory based on other theories. It is also based on scientific observation and scientific measurements. This is what differentiates science from the Theory of Intelliegent design. This is why science is taught in the science class and Intelligent design should be taught (if at all) in a Philosophy or Religious class. They are not the same. But if you want separation from religion and state (which is hard when you have "God Bless America" everywhere in government ) then should kids really be exposed to religion in schools? I dont mind if they are or not, as long as the schools cover all major religions and dosent ram one particular religion down your throat as the "Truth".


 " So I think the answer is, as others have said: Both. They are not mutually exclusive."

Ah thats the answer to you and some others on this discussion. It dosent mean its the right answer  . They can be or can not be mutually exclusive depending on your prevailing reasoning and logic, and belief in religion or the idea that a higher being created something from nothing. Make up your own mind but no one knows the answer and in the end you still wont and nothing will change and it wont really matter. Life will go on without you and will evolve.

Cheers
Andy

[Rushoid]

it isn't a theory its a fact, human bodies have reptile like musculature (6pack) remnants of gills, remnants of a tail and stuff.

That's what i was trying to say. I believe that we evolved, we weren't plunked down on Earth in our current form. We were something else before now, and something else before that, etc. But it had to start somewhere. That's where God comes in for me. He started the whole thing. Can't be proven, I know. But it can't be disproven either.

" So I think the answer is, as others have said: Both. They are not mutually exclusive."

Ah thats the answer to you and some others on this discussion. It dosent mean its the right answer .

I agree. Which is exactly why I said it was my personal belief. 

[upperlake04]

Make up your own mind but no one knows the answer and in the end you still wont and nothing will change and it wont really matter.

I think that sums it up.   
 There is another type of understanding of our place in the universe - the mystical experience, the profound human experience which encompasses and transcends all religious and scientific dogmas and is independent of cultural and temporal conditions. In that awesome state of awareness, there might be the answer to the questions we  seem to need.

[ofreen]

               
Could l buy some pot from you?   

Sorry, I've been fresh out for about 30 years.
 

Make up your own mind but no one knows the answer and in the end you still wont and nothing will change and it wont really matter. Life will go on without you and will evolve.
 
Cheers
Andy

Maybe we shouldn't discount the possibility that somebody does have the answer.  But if they came up to you and told you what it is, how would you know that it is correct?

[firecracker]

Sorry, I've been fresh out for about 30 years.
 

Man, I hate when my comedic skills are so weak that I get taken seriously.  Just to clarify, that long quote (including the request for pot) was from the movie Animal House.

For what it's worth, I do take this topic seriously, I just don't try to convince others my way is the only way.

I'm keeping up with this thread because I'm always curious about others beliefs.  Of course, then I find myself just "having" to throw something in there - even if it's only amusing to me.  So - sorry.

Just wanted to explain myslef, so you don't think I'm maliciously screwing with you guys (and gals) about a serious topic.

[martini]

Don't worry Firecracker I "got it". BTW DO you have any pot?

[andy750]

Hey Firecracker dont take yourself so seriously. This is not a test 

Now whatever happened to those two naked evolved ladies  (rhetorical question)

cheers
Andy

[Rsnip988]

yes no one seemed offended when Terry from Oz posted them


RKS

[ofreen]

Man, I hate when my comedic skills are so weak that I get taken seriously.
Just wanted to explain myslef, so you don't think I'm maliciously screwing with you guys (and gals) about a serious topic.

No need to explain or be sorry.  I knew it was a joke.  I'm hip, man.