Author Topic: Super Eliminator Rules  (Read 7958 times)

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Offline POPS 911

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2018, 04:32:19 am »
In 1988: Dam MAN CUP been around that long ?  Liquid Worm CM450A never ran 11's and it had a Suzuki pistons in the holes. They are CM's and not CB's

POPS BK911   BK1982  I got a few....

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2018, 11:53:40 am »
Frank and i run the same class. Turbo or power adder not allowed. Class is CB/SS
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Offline TurboD

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2018, 03:26:26 pm »
Bill I was asking about the "stock street" "S" class.

Offline dragracer

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2018, 06:33:10 pm »
Kevin I see mention of a CB class for the Honda's, do they run separate and each other? The "S" stock street class lists  "No visible modifications to motor or chassis". Can you define this? Are modifications allowed if not visible?

I have no clue what constitutes  a stock bike  had a list of the basic rules somewhere in my race trailer. I'll see if I can dig them up. I can tell you that no particular class runs separately from the other. Your pairing in eliminations is based on your qualifying position during the qualifying runs. You could end up being paired with the number #1 qualifier onboard a Harley or a Hayabusa.

Your dial in(index) is based on the national record for your classification. For example, my current record in the CB/SS classification is a 10.48, but when I go into eliminations, the dial in board will show a 10.46. This is the allowed breakout. Any bike in the CB/SS class will be given that dial in whether they've run that number in qualifying or not. This means that if either Bill  or I only ran a best of 10.60 in qualifying, our dial in will still be 10.46 until we lower the national record.  As to a person holding the mph record, its irrelevant during eliminations because we're not racing each other based on how fast we've gone, only how quick the actual record is at that time. MPH is great for bragging rights but not much else in my opinion.

Offline TurboD

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2018, 05:42:12 am »
Frank

The rules for the S Stock Street class appear pretty loose from what I have seen listed, maybe there's more, but I have not seen them.

So what is the index for the S stock street class?

Thanks for explaining the index setup (I understand how it works, but I'm sure most do not). Unfortunately in todays world and especially with these old bikes (and sometimes riders lol), that formula is one that is counter productive to interest new racers and generate any growth.

Now while I am a "heads up" "run what you brung" type of racer for the most part, this type of racing requires a LOT of time, money and ability that most people simply do not have.

If SE, Kevin, Bill or you Frank expect to see more old SOHC bikes out there, something needs adjusted, more of a index breakdown possibly I don't know.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2018, 10:33:58 am »
So your dial in is 10.46, does that mean a 10.40 is a break out ??
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2018, 01:23:30 pm »
Well, it means you set a new record.....
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline dragracer

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2018, 08:58:13 pm »
Frank

The rules for the S Stock Street class appear pretty loose from what I have seen listed, maybe there's more, but I have not seen them.

So what is the index for the S stock street class?

Thanks for explaining the index setup (I understand how it works, but I'm sure most do not). Unfortunately in todays world and especially with these old bikes (and sometimes riders lol), that formula is one that is counter productive to interest new racers and generate any growth.

Now while I am a "heads up" "run what you brung" type of racer for the most part, this type of racing requires a LOT of time, money and ability that most people simply do not have.

If SE, Kevin, Bill or you Frank expect to see more old SOHC bikes out there, something needs adjusted, more of a index breakdown possibly I don't know.

I'm not certain what the national record  for the "stock" CB classification is right now. Maybe Bill can chime in on that number. If for some reason you reset that record during qualifying, that would become your dial in and the number that every CB in that classification would have as his dial in. If your opponent can't run that number, he's obviously going to be eliminated first round. That's why super eliminator went away years ago and bracket racing was developed. The little guy got stomped on and never had a chance to be competitive. Bracket racing makes everything equal no matter how slow or fast, modified or stock. They no longer do engine tear downs- external visual inspections only and not based on CC's as far as I know. They just don't have the people to do those type inspections and most racer wouldn't want to be tearing into their engines trackside to verify size. I know I wouldn't want to be building my engine back in my pit area. But we all know Bill might not have an issue with it-lol.

The two stroke guys mainly resurrected the S/E class themselves and then allowed all other type bikes in the class to keep it growing. The rules are already loose so I doubt you will see them tighten anything up just to accommodate our old CB's or any other brand bike. If anyone is building a CB just to run this class only, I'm not sure that's the wisest decision to make. I'd recommend building something quick enough to break a record but versatile enough to run another class, like street ET, pro ET or super comp. The project F i'm now building will be run in S/E with the nitrous turned on to set a power adder record for a CB/SSN. The spray will be turned off and my brother will then ride it in street ET. I never build a bike that has one purpose only. I like to race way too much to limit myself.

Again, that's what bracket racing is about and anyone can enter street ET as long as it has street tires, is self starting and meets other basic safety rules. S/E is primarily about setting records only. If I didn't think my CB was quick enough to set a national record, odds are I would never have entered S/E initially- it was only for bragging rights. I'm certain one day soon, my record will be beaten. I know I have no intentions of making changes to my red bike to make it quicker so my participation in the class will come to an end at that point. I'll then stick completely with street ET and save the wear and tear on myself and the bike. Lol.

My advice is to contact Kevin Hutchinson to discuss their current rules and suggest ways to bring about more parity among similar bikes. You can find Kevin on the super eliminator Facebook page. I think they now have a basic website set up.

Offline POPS 911

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2018, 04:34:44 am »
Frank: Can I RUN IN THE CLASS FOR A CM450A and would never set a record but could run my dial in like a bracket race ? I would be at the bottom of the list and have to run the top of the list first round. Or do they do like the best reaction time is number 1 [ top list ] and then on down ?

POPS BK911

Offline Water Cooled

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2018, 11:39:45 am »
Sorry for not checking back in more often...

Ive been busy chipping away at updating the Racers List page and honing the website, race ladders and qualifying spreadsheets to get prepared for ManCup at Dragway 42.  On the new website, there is a racers list (under the POINTS tab). These are racers that have indicated that they are coming  to at least one or more of the SE events this season.     http://supereliminator.org/?page_id=670

So to answer a couple questions:  Yes, we are anticipating more CB750s at this event than previous ManCup events and we are expanding the AMSnow event which was historically 2-stroke only to include all bikes dove-tailing the two separate SE formats. 
There are no bikes currently running CB/S class which I hope to fill.  No visible external modifications.  An index will be set after qualifying rounds.
http://supereliminator.org/?page_id=312

Hopefully, the Cycle-X bike will be at 42.  If Ken decides to bring it, he would run CB/D (Dragster) and that index will be set during qualifying too.  Frank and Bill have already established both ET and MPH records in CB/SS so as a result, they will be at the top of the qualifying list since they are now running off an established national record.  I agree, the rivalry between Bill Benton and Frank is epic and all of us enjoy seeing that develop.  It's exactly what we want to have in S/E. 

I have also been talking with Wayne Skinner from the Triumph Board and Wayne will have 2-3 nitro fueled Triumph dragbikes there, possibly a double-engine bike called Double-Trouble.  We are creating a class called BT for British bikes and currently establishing indexes for those bikes and will continue to try to attract more including Norton's and others as we go down the road.

We are doing our very best to accommodate period bikes and will help any racer find a class where they can be competitive if at all possible...but as Frank already clarified, all S/E bikes must be capable of running on (or very near) a National Record to compete at a ManCup event. 

The rules and points are loosely based on IDBA 1999/2000.  Most of the bikes will fit into the classes explained on the S/E website.  We are not trying to recreate IDBA Super Eliminator... we are trying to shape Super Eliminator to show off some of the quickest and most historic bikes in the U.S. that were the foundation from which modern Dragbike racing exists today. 

SE is not the place for professional "bracket racers" like Dustin Lee.  The rule prohibiting boxes from being on an SE bike should resolve most of that.  The spirit of SE is to chase records which requires running every pass out the back door. 







« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:59:12 am by Water Cooled »

Offline Water Cooled

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2018, 05:42:39 am »
Pops 911,

According to Vic, 13.49 sec may be the quickest ET for the CM450A.  We’ve not found anything quicker so that will be the bench mark moving forward.

Offline POPS 911

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2018, 05:09:23 am »
WATER COOLED: Vic CM450A was not a STOCK bike it had a Suzuki pistons [ from Tony Lang ] cut to fit and Kawasaki 500cc carbs ..... I know this because years ago he sent me a e-mail with his set up. When SE winners and record sets they were tore down these things were all checked to a STOCK format. Dwayne Messer had his motor tore down every time and MSP put it all back together for next event = he could ride but spinning wrenches was not his game.

POPS BK911

Offline dragracer

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2018, 12:28:18 pm »
Kevin, if I read the rules correctly, my new project CB will not fit into the CB/SS category. It will have a stock clutch cover but a spacer will be added to accommodate the lockup clutch I'm installing. Also, it will have a power adder. Therefore, I'm concluding it will fit into the "US" (ultra street) category with sub classification of "N" (nitrous). So will it be "CB/US/N"???

Offline Water Cooled

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Re: Super Eliminator Rules
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2018, 10:20:00 am »
It would go into CB/PS (Pro Street) due to the nitrous which is a power adder.  Without nitrous, it would be CB/US (Ultra Street).
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 10:26:11 am by Water Cooled »

 

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